Attendances

[DRFC-PERKINS]

Question, what numbers do we need to break even?
I'm sure when we got promoted it was 10,000 a season we needed for the championship, i expect that to have gone up after Billy signed and new contracts ect. Does anyone know?

[DonnyNoel]

Question, what numbers do we need to break even?
I'm sure when we got promoted it was 10,000 a season we needed for the championship, i expect that to have gone up after Billy signed and new contracts ect. Does anyone know?

I think when we came up the 10k figure was quoted not to break even but to make an \"acceptable\" loss of £2m?

It's hard to do the maths as we don't know what other income streams we have (TV, sponsorship) but with a reported wage bill of £7m I think it would be extremely hard to break even. Its probably not the best way to work it out but if we said we sold all 11,500 (ish) ST's at, say, £400 then that gives £4.6m. Then we're looking at away fans, TV money and sponsorship to make up the rest.

[Superspy]

its quite tricky to judge where we are at in comparison with how things were when we came up.

i thought out wage bill was about 7 mill WHEN we came up, not now? i was under the impression that its more like 10-12 mill these days? last year didn't we average about 10k attendances, and the board still had to put in between 2 and 3 million to cover the loss for the season? then we've added sharp and extended contracts this season.

also tv revenue to the championship clubs, along with the rules over parachute payments have changed since then too.

also, on top of the things you listed noel, we've got a million out in rent every season, but sure part of it that deal was that we control the advertising inside the ground, as well as the carparks, so we have those 2 revenue streams aswell, plus everything from programmes, half time draw tickets, lottery, and whatever deal we have with nike over the club shop. there are lots of factors to consider.

it will be interesting seeing what the board have to put in this time around.

[DonnyNoel]

its quite tricky to judge where we are at in comparison with how things were when we came up.

i thought out wage bill was about 7 mill WHEN we came up, not now? i was under the impression that its more like 10-12 mill these days? last year didn't we average about 10k attendances, and the board still had to put in between 2 and 3 million to cover the loss for the season? then we've added sharp and extended contracts this season.

also tv revenue to the championship clubs, along with the rules over parachute payments have changed since then too.

also, on top of the things you listed noel, we've got a million out in rent every season, but sure part of it that deal was that we control the advertising inside the ground, as well as the carparks, so we have those 2 revenue streams aswell, plus everything from programmes, half time draw tickets, lottery, and whatever deal we have with nike over the club shop. there are lots of factors to consider.

it will be interesting seeing what the board have to put in this time around.

Good point, its very hard to guess without seeing any detailed figures but I would certainly think we're quite a way off breaking even this season.

[The L J Monk]

TV revenue for The Football League:

2006-2009 - £36.5 million a season
2009-2012 - £88 million a season
2012-2015 - £65 million a season

The split for 2012 onwards is approximately 80% Championship, 12% League One, 8% League Two.

Looks like we got promoted at just the right time. However, if we're over budget now, then a £750,000 a season reduction in TV revenue from next season onwards isn't going to be particularly helpful.

[benaldo]

The season ticket maths isn't that simple. Don't forget there are approximately 500 or so hospitality seats at a minimum of around £700 a season up to around £1100 a season. And you can sponsor almost everything that can be nailed on or written on.........who can forget \"GOAL scored by James Coppinger\" - crowd cheers - \"sponsored by Teeny Weeny Entertainment\"....or \"Smiths Drains\" \"Scroggins LIver Pate\" or \"This free kick is sponsored by Johnsons Calipers\" it's bloody endless. etc etc.

I would love to know actually how much excess the board have to contribute each year to keep the club solvent?

[DRFC-PERKINS]

I would love to know actually how much excess the board have to contribute each year to keep the club solvent?

I would be interesting to know, but i guess we will never know unless we become lottery winners and join the board. There are usually one off anouncements every other year, 'we've made a loss of X amount ect', but there hasn't been one for a while, so just thought i'd inquire to see if anyone knew. Cheers for the input anyway chaps.

[Superspy]

im sure JR came out last year and said the board had put in 2 or 3 million at the season end to cover the losses. i know there's a big difference between the 2 im just not convinced of which it was.

[Dimples-D]

Why do people who own football clubs pile money into them? I don't get it, what do they get out of it?
Why would anyone want to own a business that is making a loss?

The football bubble is surley close to bursting point now.

[Superspy]

only 2 reasons i can come up with are a) fun, and b) speculate to accumulate.

people like john ryan are doing it for the love of the club and the game, at the heart of it all he is a fan. other chairman in lower leagues are perhaps shooting for the prem for a big payday, where all of a sudden a small loss (relatively) turns into a massive gain, and similarly with lower prem teams, they can shoot for the champions league or whatever.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Quite right. JR & Co have underwritten the gap between income and expenditure for many years now. We should not underestimate that and assume that they are willing to put money in year in year out.

The key for any club is managing finances the best they can an minimising the losses. The question should not be about average attendance, but average revenue taking in to account ST sales and match revenue. What we don't know is about 'other' income, TV money etc.

The objective must be to maximise the revenue per game by pitching ticket prices at the right level. We can argue that this may not have been done as well as it could be, but I cannot see how falling average attendances can help, even if you have charged £28 for 'big' games.

If only it was so simple, but I'd rather have 10000 paying £15 a game rather than 5000 at £30 a game.

As we speak ST sales are at 2935. What has stopped the 3000-4000 former ST holders renewing? The answer is out there.

[RedJ]

I've said this before, but..

How well would adults £13 and kids £5-7 work out? I think it's something like that in Germany, and they get really good attendances. I know there isn't as much money spent in German football as over here.

[DonnyNoel]

Why do people who own football clubs pile money into them? I don't get it, what do they get out of it?
Why would anyone want to own a business that is making a loss?

The football bubble is surley close to bursting point now.

I'm tempted to agree but we've been saying that for years. Attendances and employment have gone down but wages are still skyrocketing. Its a funny old industry, it only takes one club to start chasing the dream and they all will. Clubs lose £5m+ a year to finish mid table in this league.