Policing at the Millwall game.

[MiKA]

I'd be interested to know the cost of the extra Policing and Stewarding at yesterdays game and who exactly pays for it, anyone know?

What I would also like to know is why exactly did the Millwall fans warrant that many? yes I know they have a reputation but so do Leeds!  I'm not sure how many Millwall fans there were yesterday but for our home games against Leeds there were probably around 5,000 Leeds fans in the ground with many of those in our end. 

So if the extra Policing was brought in as a safety measure why do we not have the same or considerably more for a Leeds game as on we could certainly do with it. 

[aidanstu]

As I understand it the club forks out for the stewarding and policing within the ground but the South Yorkshire constabulary pick up any cost of policing outside the ground. There has (on the first day of the season a couple of seasons back) been huge problems with mill wall if you remember.

[RedRover45]

390 from Millwall I believe

[silent majority]

The club pick up the bill for stewarding, obviously, but also for the Police that are used within the 'footprint' of the stadium. That would include the stadium itself plus car parks and surrounding areas.

It's very expensive for a club of our size, but fortunately we've managed to have numerous 'police free' games this season, the first club in SY to achieve this.

[Norfolk N Chance]

Yep Millwall acts like animals and we pick up the bill really fair that '

[SLO@DRFC]

The stewarding levels were similar for the Millwall game than any previous fixture, including the Leeds game. There wasnt any extra stewarding provided purely for this match, however when there is a larger away support, the stewards will obviously be covering more areas than yesterday making them less visible and seem like there are more on match-days such as yesterday when there was only a small following compared to previous games.

The club have little control over the Police presence as the amount of Officers attending is decided as a result of the Police Category which is based on intelligence received. However because of the small number of away fans travelling to the game the Police did 'downgrade' the category from the original catergorisation earlier this season which resulted in less Officers and at a lower cost to the football club.

[Bessie Red]

It was total overkill if you ask me. The only time they have ever brought any of their so called firm was the first meeting with them at the Keepmoat. Complete waste of money IMHO. Don't forget it will have been double maybe treble time for them with it being Christmas & a Sunday. Nice work if you can get it!!

[JayBaker]

Wow, so DRFC cough up money for the police to ensure crowd control and safety? Hmm...not sure how comfortable I am with "threat of violence" = "higher costs" = "paying police."

I'm assuming it just covers their overtime or something.

[Donnywolf]

I remember going to Millwall v Blackpool in Feb 1976. I think it was shortly after the Millwall fan was killed by West Ham fans by being thrown under a passing Tube train

Millwall had their home end closed and Blackpool fans were few and keeping "quiet". The game was not exciting and so I counted the 99 Policemen on the Kop and was amazed to count 99 (presumably one was having a p***) I could not be bothered to recount  !

They were all "guarding" ABSOLUTELY NOTHING

[Muttley]

I'm assuming it just covers their overtime or something.

No, they are allowed to charge on a "full cost recovery" basis after a court case between Wigan & Greater Manchester Police.

As SM says above, they can only charge for police on duty in the ground and immediate area (official car parks etc). Another court case between Leeds and West Yorks Police ruled that they couldn't charge for officers on duty in the town centre etc.

I can't find any figures for DRFC (maybe SM has got them), but as an example SWFC's bill from SYP for 2008/9 was £360k!!!

Now obviously that included a high profile game vs the Blades (charged at £36k), but even given that plus their higher attendances and the possible effect of the change in law re the Leeds case, you could easily see Rovers having a bill of approx £100k pa (guesstimated numbers 20 officers x £50 per hr x 4 hours x 23 games = £92k)

In my opinion it's scandalous that police forces can even charge football clubs - do they charge the racecourse?

[silent majority]

Thanks Muttley!

I had typed out a reply which pretty much covered the same points. However I can add that the cost to DRFC was in excess of £100k, even when we were in lg1.

WY police have appealed against the law Courts ruling as they wish to recover what they see as the total cost. My concern is that as taxpayers we already pay for Police protection as a citizen, but as a football fan we have to pay again. Where does this selective charging stop?

[Muttley]

Exactly.

Do all the town centre pubs pay for the additional police required for "Mad Friday"?

And going by the SYP Twitter feed on Mad Friday, who pays for the complete f**kwits out there who dial 999 for no reason...

@Tweetmas_Don Male in #Thorne phoned to say he has received a letter that has been delivered to the wrong address #L03 #SYTweetmas

The selective charging "stops" when we have privatised "security forces" who charge everyone who is prepared to pay for protection...everyone else goes without.

[wilts rover]

SM

The guidelines are here http://www.acpo.police.uk/documents/finance/2010/201006FRPTB01.pdf

or to summarise, yes as tax payers we pay for public policing of our streets (and roads). What we dont pay for is policing of any events, commercial or non-commercial, it is up to the discretion of the relevant police force as to whether or not they charge for these. So music festivals, cycling events, marches, protests, etc, there will most likely be a charge.

[wilts rover]

Exactly.

Do all the town centre pubs pay for the additional police required for "Mad Friday"?

And going by the SYP Twitter feed on Mad Friday, who pays for the complete f***wits out there who dial 999 for no reason...

@Tweetmas_Don Male in #Thorne phoned to say he has received a letter that has been delivered to the wrong address #L03 #SYTweetmas

The selective charging "stops" when we have privatised "security forces" who charge everyone who is prepared to pay for protection...everyone else goes without.

Yes, they have the power to do so if they wish

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10771681.City_to_charge_pubs_and_clubs_for_policing_drunken_revellers/?ref=rss

[Muttley]

Exactly.

Do all the town centre pubs pay for the additional police required for "Mad Friday"?

And going by the SYP Twitter feed on Mad Friday, who pays for the complete f***wits out there who dial 999 for no reason...

@Tweetmas_Don Male in #Thorne phoned to say he has received a letter that has been delivered to the wrong address #L03 #SYTweetmas

The selective charging "stops" when we have privatised "security forces" who charge everyone who is prepared to pay for protection...everyone else goes without.

Yes, they have the power to do so if they wish

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10771681.City_to_charge_pubs_and_clubs_for_policing_drunken_revellers/?ref=rss

I doubt they've ever managed to enforce a charge like that - most of the disorder occurs in the street so a bar would just say it wasn't on their premises and leave it to the police to try and prove that Yob A had been drinking in Bar X.

Football clubs are a bit of a sitting duck.

[wilts rover]

As are cycling events - and I have seen a lot more trouble at a football match than I have in a bike race.

[silent majority]

SM

The guidelines are here http://www.acpo.police.uk/documents/finance/2010/201006FRPTB01.pdf

or to summarise, yes as tax payers we pay for public policing of our streets (and roads). What we dont pay for is policing of any events, commercial or non-commercial, it is up to the discretion of the relevant police force as to whether or not they charge for these. So music festivals, cycling events, marches, protests, etc, there will most likely be a charge.

You missed my point though Wilts. I wasn't concerned about current practice, i.e. charging for Policing a football game, but the wider implications of charging for a place presence when that presence could well be many miles from the stadium. Recently some research body produced some figures which showed that crime increased in town centres when football games are being played. We challenged that data and it was withdrawn. But that's ACPOs intention, to widen the chargeable areas around football games to a point where it it's purely at their discretion.

[wilts rover]

Yes I did miss that SM, I thought you were picking football out as a special case for police charging, which it certainly isnt. Good luck on fighting that issue but some fans dont help themselves, or the reputation of the majority, with their conduct on match days do they.

[graingrover]

I took a train back to Kings Cross with them together with a dozen transport police . Everyone cheerful and in good spirits . I think the transport police stayed around the Railway station all afternoon .

[Al4475]

Just to add to this - this is taken from the notes taken from the supporters club meeting at Intake Social Club regarding policing costs.

Policing? The policing at matches is a big expense -10% of the clubs matchday income goes to the police - £8000 per game for 23 League games is £184 000 per season. Hence the reason why we are trialling Police Free games of which there are 12 this season so that should equate to a £96k saving for the financial year. Trying to run the Stadium Police Free is going really well at the moment. Fans letting off flares and pyrotechnics mean that at the next game the police have to be there – so letting a flare off is like taking £8000 off of the club. DRFC have banned only 1 supporter this year, and that was for the use of a Pyrotechnic. Stewards, Police Forces, fans and Boards of other clubs email Gavin regularly after away games to say that DRFCs support was fantastic, well behaved and a pleasure to have! Great News!

[normal rules]

Clubs do not pay for policing unless they specifically request a police presence inside the ground prior to match day. If police respond to an incident inside the ground on match day, then clubs again, do not pay. the police however can take primacy over the safety of a fixture taking place and put cops inside the ground. In these circumstances I am unsure who pays. It is for this reason you rarely see cops in football grounds these days with the exception of flo's

[silent majority]

normal rules,

Sorry but you're mistaken. The police decide on the category of the game well in advance and depending on that they decide how many officers to deploy. As I've stated before the club pays for all those officers deployed within the footprint of the stadium.

Up until this year there had been no 'police free' games in SY.

[bfdoncaster west]

get rid of cop at game