"One of the best English players ever..."

[BillyStubbsTears]

Gareth Barry.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35247911

Discuss the propensity of fans and managers to over-estimate the ability of their own little cherubs.

EDIT: Title changed to satisfy our new/old keeper of the pedantry flame.

[Alan Southstand]

Not a cat-in-hell's chance! Not while ever he has only 1 ass hole.

Average Premiership player at best.

[DonnyNoel]

We tackled a trivia question at work naming the players beginning with "B" who had 50+ England caps. Shockingly, he was one of the answers.

One game does not a poor player make but I can't forget the WC 4-1 defeat against Germany where he couldn't handle any German player making a run into space.

[GazLaz]

Steady player. Been outstanding recently mind you.

[The Red Baron]

Good, steady professional playing well because the system at Everton suits him.

[Dare to dream!]

Massively underrated player. City fans say he was the unsung hero in the team that won the title.

[Seadog Minibus]

I can't see that quote anywhere?

I saw an interesting stat about Barry just before Xmas. Despite his relatively advanced years, he's covered the second most distance in the Premier League so far this season. A real work horse.

[hoolahoop]

Good player but not a great one . Again as another poster stated he is well suited and playing superbly at Everton currently.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Seadog

Goodness. Is it that time already?

It's here:
"Everton manager Roberto Martinez described Gareth Barry as "one of the best English players ever" after a masterclass in the League Cup semi-final win over Manchester City."

I said it's here.
"Everton manager Roberto Martinez described Gareth Barry as "one of the best English players ever" after a masterclass in the League Cup semi-final win over Manchester City."

3/8ths of a Meatloaf.

[Seadog Minibus]

Seadog

Goodness. Is it that time already?

It's here:
"Everton manager Roberto Martinez described Gareth Barry as "one of the best English players ever" after a masterclass in the League Cup semi-final win over Manchester City."

I said it's here.
"Everton manager Roberto Martinez described Gareth Barry as "one of the best English players ever" after a masterclass in the League Cup semi-final win over Manchester City."

3/8ths of a Meatloaf.

I can see that quote Billystubbstears, thanks all the same.

I can't see the one you've used as the subject title.

[BillyStubbsTears]

All the world loves a pedant...

Have you REALLY nothing better to offer after all this time away?

[Seadog Minibus]

All the world loves a pedant...

Have you REALLY nothing better to offer after all this time away?

You seem to have missed my point

Martinez states he's one of the best English players ever. Given how many there's been, and the level he's played at for so long, he's absolutely right.

The BBC headline, and your title, suggests he's one of the best national team players ever. A much smaller and more elite group. I wouldn't agree he was at the top end of them.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yes. Correct. Accepted. Well done.

Of course, you could have pointed out that mistyping of mine in your initial reply, but each to their own.

You are now promoted to 3/4 of a Meatloaf.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Of course, given your aspiration for perfection in communication, you might have considered that "...one of the best ever..." is an information-free phrase.

I am one of the best English players ever. I might only played no higher than the Dearne Sunday League, and have made it no higher than to get into the top 99% of English players of all-time, but that's irrelevant. If I choose to interpret "one of the best" as meaning "one of the 99% who were better than the worst 1%", then I am at liberty to do so. (I wouldn't, because I don't really concern myself with pointless point scoring to show how smart I am, but that's just me.)

Anyway, in that light, the distinction between the words "England" and "English" is irrelevant. The phrases are equally correct and equally meaningless.

If you are REALLY interested in communication being clear and meaningful, you'd have concerned yourself with that. I'm surprised at you.

[Seadog Minibus]

Yes. Correct. Accepted. Well done.

Of course, you could have pointed out that mistyping of mine in your initial reply, but each to their own.

You are now promoted to 3/4 of a Meatloaf.

I wasn't really interested in your use of the title, you were just repeating what the BBC had said. I was wondering why they would change it to that, for me it gives the 'story' a very different slant.

Perhaps they just wanted a reaction.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I disagree.

YOU have made the interpretation that the BBC title implies "player for the England" team. That interpretation was valid from my incorrect title of the OP, but using the world "England's as the BBC does not imply that they are talking about the England national team. Not to me at any rate. It says what it says: that he is being put forward as one of the best players that belongs to this country.

I accept that you may have a different interpretation. But it IS just an interpretation. You have chosen to read into that headline something that doesn't strictly exist.

[IDM]

[Seadog Minibus]

This is riveting stuff Billystubbstears but I think I'm done on this.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Agreed Seadog.

Make yourself nice and clear at the start next time round and we can clear it all up in no time eh?

[Alickismyhero]

Agreed Seadog.

Make yourself nice and clear at the start next time round and we can clear it all up in no time eh?

Billy I will never question your word! Respect.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Alick

Dangerous! Seadog has already caught me out twice in the past 24 hours. I'm not sure how we've coped without him these last few years.

[Alickismyhero]

Alick

Dangerous! Seadog has already caught me out twice in the past 24 hours. I'm not sure how we've coped without him these last few years.

He's not the only one coming back! if you know what I mean.