In the space of 2 weeks

[wing commander]

   2 weeks ago,this board was full of quiet optimism..We have had a few years of going down the keepmoat,watching rubbish and leaving full of disappointment having being short changed in the value for money stakes...

   This year it was going to be different,we had given the manager what he wanted by securing all his targets early for a change allowing him to drill our team from day one of pre-season,We are playing at a low level with a good squad.So I was looking forward to this year if only to enjoy it more,yes we had a few injuries but we had the quality to cope...Yet once again we trudged out the moat wondering who in there right mind thought that turgid effort was worth £20 odd quid on a Saturday afternoon..Of course some will say it's early days etc etc,but my worry is that for me we don't even look close to being a decent side.This is a entertainment industry and the crowd which continues to shrink received none yet again...

   Even listening to Fergusons interview was depressing,when asked about Tuesday all he could talk about was how good Cambridge are,it was like he was preparing us for more disappointment...Now some would say he is very very lucky to still be in this job after last seasons timid capitulation but if he wants it much longer he has to improve what we are watching because its simply not good enough...

   So the optimism has wained,now this board is full of talk about formations that don't work,players in unfamiliar positions,awful football etc etc..I suspect this next 3 months are going to be very important to Doncaster Rovers going forward both on and off the field....I'm not one for changing managers in a panic but for me he hasn't got long to improve this team...Ferguson is starting to remind me of Dickov,talks a good game off the park,produces absolutely nothing on it...

[wesisback]

 

[IDM]

The first half on saturday was so bad, that tempered the views of the second half which was significantly better, despite not taking chances well enough.

It's a simple game, show some spirit, fight, determination etc and with the players we have got,we should get performances and results.

Even a couple of decent goals (and a win) would lift the spirits even if the game on Tuesday isn't great.

When are the likes of Baudry and McShefferey liely to be fit?  Will we bring more players in before the window shuts?

I just looked on Palace's website, Keshi doesn't appear in their first team squad section.  I don't draw any conclusions to that but you would expect DF to dip into the market especially if our injured players are not recovering quickly enough?

[The Red Baron]

 

Nailed it WingCo. I may have said on here, and if not I certainly thought it, that a good start was essential. Not necessarily winning every game, but at least performances that bore the look of a team that was going to win games.

Instead what have we had? The usual litany of defensive calamity and individual errors cost us anything at Accrington. Then we failed to build on a decent second half against Forest and produced an abject 45 minutes v Crawley. The sort of thing we saw so much last season and which would have been ruthlessly exploited by a better and more ambitious side.

The natives were pretty restless on Saturday and I shudder to think what will happen if we get a repeat tomorrow. Ferguson was right about one thing - the fans' patience will soon run out. I wonder how long the Board's will last?

[Copps is Magic]

The mindset of our supporters is sadly (unfortunately) changing. We used to give players time, support players on the pitch no matter what. Come to Donny, it's a good club to be at was what they used to say in interviews.

Now our players get booed at half time in the first game of the season. They get booed at half time in the 2nd game of the season. Our new young keeper playing his first game for the club gets abuse shouted at him from 10 yards away. The vultures start circling around Fergie on here.

I'm in a split mind about what to make of it all. We deserve criticism for how we're playing. However, we're becoming one of those clubs that thinks it doesn't take time to build success. If it was any other club I'd laugh from afar but at your own club it just becomes a tragedy. And less enjoyable.

[wing commander]

    I went on my own Saturday,normally there are 5 of us but everybody else found various reason why they had to be somewhere else...One even went shopping with the wife,in past years he would have risked 2 days of silence by insisting he went to the footy with the lads...On Saturday he went meekly to Ikea after deciding it wasn't worth the hassle....

   At full time I couldn't blame one of them,yes the second half was better but lets be honest anything had to be better than what we were served up in the first and it still wasn't good...

   I feel a bit for Andy Watson and Gavin Baldwin,they did all that was requested of them over the summer and they must be sat in front of their computers this morning looking at the  income spreadsheet from Saturday because after you take off season tickets and freeby tickets it wont be much and despair...That said they made the decision over the summer to stick with him and back him in the transfer market when most wouldn't have..So they have to take responsibility for what comes next....Of course it could all turn around,performances and results could change and people will find some enthusiasm again but that feels a long way off right now...
   

[Dare to dream!]

3 Games in and its started 

[wing commander]

    That's were I disagree Dare to dream and so do thousands of others judging by the attendance decline over the last few years....it's not 3 games and its started...its 90 odd games now for me and we are still going backwards, but I'm willing to hear your arguments why I'm wrong....

[IDM]

3 Games in and its started 

I don't like when posters over react especially at the start of the season, but wing commander has expressed his views and worries without resorting to hyperbole and over-reaction.

There are moaners who moan for the sake of it, but I wouldn't put this thread in that category..

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's a tough one to call.

Yes, this is a new season, and no, we shouldn't over-react. But then that first half in Saturday was appalling. As bad as anything Dickov served up. As bad as the worst of last season. That is just unacceptable and I think that some pretty robust criticism is the least the club could expect.

And that comes at the end of of one of the worst runs we've ever had. Since that great win at Southend, we have the following league & cup record.

P25 W2 D7 L16 F22 A38

You can't ignore that context.

BUT. In both Saturday's match and the Forest match, we re-organised and looked strong in the second halves. On Tuesday we more than matched a strong Forest. On Saturday we dominated the second half. If we can get that level of organisation and zip from the off, we'll be OK.

If we can't, Ferguson has to go because this run is getting to unignorable lengths now.

[wing commander]

   it wasn't meant as a moan just more of a general synopsis of were we are as a football club right now and how the manager has to realise they have to give us something to support and get behind...When I was 18 it didn't matter,we would happily get on our mini bus and follow blindly home and away whatever the performance,money was our own and no commitments to anything....
     However roll on 30 years and that's not the case..Mortgages and families mean money is tight for most and £20 out of your weekly disposable income isn't something to be blindly dished out...You have to think it's worth it beyond just blind faith or the cause and frankly I'm getting tired of it not been...That's not moaning just reality....

[Copps is Magic]

You have to tuck your cocks in between your legs and park the recent history in a separate compartment of your brain. This was meant to be a fresh start. Darren Ferguson with his own players. We're two games into that fresh start and to throw him under the bus now with all the baggage of the Dickov era would be stupid.

[wing commander]

    Admirable words Copps and I admire your faith, and I'm not calling for his head just yet but it wont be long before I do and i make no apologies for it,because fresh starts are supposed to be just that... fresh,not looking suspiciously like what we've been continuously dished up before, new season or not...

[Danmckay456]

I see hardly any difference between Ferguson and Dickov in terms of a game plan , the ball possession and retention is exactly the Same  and we still have a lack of pace in the team

[NickDRFC]

IDM - Keshi might not appear in their squad on their website, but he did appear on their bench at the weekend. Likely that Bolasie is on his way out so unless they get a couple more forwards in sharpish I'm not sure he'd be available.

[IDM]

Thanks Nick, didn't know that..  At least it shows he is fit?

[NickDRFC]

Yeah I wouldn't have known myself but I sit next to a Palace fan...he came in this morning and said that he was fearful of their squad depth as they already had 2 kids on the bench, and I asked if one was Anderson. I know he has a prior relationship with us/DF but sadly if he does go out on loan I can see it being Championship.

[murham]

I am a miserable pessimist and often get abuse which is accepted

However, I still believe in this squad and manager

Time is of the essence and tonight is a very important turning point

Debate is crucial but like the economy you can talk yourself down

Come on rovers

[IDM]

The best way to settle these debates and ease fans' worries is to perform on the pitch - bleeding obvious I know but life is always that little bit better when we win a game...

[silent majority]

    I went on my own Saturday,normally there are 5 of us but everybody else found various reason why they had to be somewhere else...One even went shopping with the wife,in past years he would have risked 2 days of silence by insisting he went to the footy with the lads...On Saturday he went meekly to Ikea after deciding it wasn't worth the hassle....

   At full time I couldn't blame one of them,yes the second half was better but lets be honest anything had to be better than what we were served up in the first and it still wasn't good...

   I feel a bit for Andy Watson and Gavin Baldwin,they did all that was requested of them over the summer and they must be sat in front of their computers this morning looking at the  income spreadsheet from Saturday because after you take off season tickets and freeby tickets it wont be much and despair...That said they made the decision over the summer to stick with him and back him in the transfer market when most wouldn't have..So they have to take responsibility for what comes next....Of course it could all turn around,performances and results could change and people will find some enthusiasm again but that feels a long way off right now...
   

WC,

Its the Chairman who decides if the Manager stays or goes, Andy and Gavin just manage the outcomes from that. And to be really fair I thought they did a tremendous job during the summer of managing budgets and supporters expectations with a squad that looks real value for money. So it seems unfair that you would suggest they have to take responsibility for what comes next. Is that just a poor choice of words?

[wing commander]

     Yes Martin you are right, I stand corrected on that, however I would expect both have the ear of the chairmen with their opinions or should have anyway,but then we are talking about Mr Blunt who I don't think is a good Chairmen full stop, so nothing would surprise me...As for whether the squad assembled is real value for money,for me that is far from proven at this stage...

[BobG]

It's not really fair to say the squad isn't good enough WC. We were all pretty happy with it 3 weeks ago. Not perfect, but not bad at all. What's more at issue now, IMHO, is whether or not they will play like a team? A team with confidence? A team playing to a system they understand and can exploit? And all three of those questions lie at the door of one man.

I think he's got time yet, but not a huge amount of it. Going on the past history of our Board I think he's got until around Christmas time.

Cheers

BobG

[wing commander]

   I'm not sure I said the squad wasn't good enough Bob?? I said it was still to be proven that it is..I haven't seen much to get me excited though..

[drfchound]

I see hardly any difference between Ferguson and Dickov in terms of a game plan , the ball possession and retention is exactly the Same  and we still have a lack of pace in the team

The main criticism of Dickov was that he "didnt have a plan B".
This can now be levelled at Ferguson.

[mrfrostsdad]

It's not really fair to say the squad isn't good enough WC. We were all pretty happy with it 3 weeks ago. Not perfect, but not bad at all. What's more at issue now, IMHO, is whether or not they will play like a team? A team with confidence? A team playing to a system they understand and can exploit? And all three of those questions lie at the door of one man.

I think he's got time yet, but not a huge amount of it. Going on the past history of our Board I think he's got until around Christmas time.

Cheers


I know many people who were extremely happy with the signings we made for last season and how we would be back in the Championship now, and look where that left us!
No, we shouldn't be too critical two games in to the season, but after Saturday it's very difficult not to be. And no, we can't call for the managers head after two games either (personally I'm in the camp that believes he should have been sacked months ago - probably after the Scunthorpe game away when it was obvious the players didn't buy in to what he was trying to do)
Should the general standard of play and results not improve, I'm not sure he's got until Christmas, maybe 12 games tops. If we had say 13 or 14 points after 12 games (God forbid) I would expect him to be history. Having said that, the board didn't sack Dickov when they should have, ie when he got us relegated single handedly. They had too eventually, and the same will happen with Ferguson IF things don't improve
BobG

[Sammy Chung was King]

I expected ferguson, to be a man who was full of confidence, his dad's never been short in that department. I think last years relegation blunted the initial arrogance he came in with.
I see him as a manager, who works hard, who players enjoy playing for, but a manager that won't admit his shortcomings to himself. He seems a very stubborn man, when the evidence, that what he is doing, isn't working. It's flashing in front of his eyes in 'fifty foot neon lettering', '3-5-2 doesn't work, 3-5-2 doesn't work'!. He just doesn't see it, it's not weakness to admit you are wrong, it's a strength to recognise, everybody is wrong at sometime.

He isn't a man without talent, he did a good job at peterborough, for quite a while, but it seems his stubborness to adapt, which he asks his players to do, every game, is going to cost him this job.
I don't want to see that happen. Why doesn't he realise, he isn't managing international footballers, he is managing very talented players, but players who have strengths, that he isn't getting the best from?.
To get promoted out of this league, you need an organised, ruthless, consistent, adaptable team, with characters who drag you out of the s..t.
 We have too many who don't take responsibility, and say 'I'm not having this, i'm going to get us back in it', we miss players like that, they are capable of being this way.
Get whoever plays at the back told, whatever comes in that box, you win that ball. Organise the full backs not to work as just a full back, but also an extra centre half. Tell them attacking isn't you're job, you keep the ball out of our end.

He needs to be drilling the team to press as one, but also releasing the attacking players to show what they are capable of, You can play attacking, while also defending well. There should be no such thing as 'young lads', when you sign the pro contract, you are a man, don't play well enough you are out.
The team comes before individuals, you win nothing with players, playing for themselves. The crowd need to stop making the opposition's job easier, if you only support when you are winning, then you are missing a lot of games.
Isn't it better to think 'i helped him through his dodgy patch'?, rather than thinking 'i destroyed him when he was at his lowest'?, it makes no sense to boo, your own players!.

Were you booing when we won the play off final against leeds, were you booing when we beat aston villa in the cup. Until people realise, that just because you lose games, you're team doesn't change, then things won't improve.
If you want us to stay in this league, keep booing, and destroying the atmosphere, if you want the club to do well, the least you can do is support those wearing the shirt!. No team has a right to win, it has to be earned.

[wing commander]

     Interesting points Sammy..I think tonight is a huge night for our season...If we turn up,get at them from the start,play faster football and get a win with a decent performance then the fans will have something to be confident about as will the players and we can kick on....
    A performance like the first half Saturday doesn't bear thinking about tbh...

[foxbat]

agreed. Could well be a pivotal game.
A good win could well start a run and successfull
promotion charge.
A defeat could well start a spiral of further decline.
A draw - depends on the nature of the performance ?

Did not expect to feel a bit nervous like this before the start
of the season., though I suppose those injuries didn't help.

[idler]

I can stand losing but lack of effort or commitment is unforgivable.
Ian Snodin was young and built like a stick insect when he made his debut but I can never remember him shirking a tackle ever in his career.
How many times are our players brushed off or lose 50/50s?