Momentum.....

[wing commander]

Jon Lansman Momentums founder tweeted "Winning" is the small bit that matters to Political elites who want to keep power for themselves...Seriously??? Do Labour want to be a party that can govern this country in the future or revel in the glorious socialist defeat..

 I've watched a lot of interviews this weekend ranging from McCluskey denying his part in the loss and blaming the Policy's.Despite the fact he sat on the executive committee that signed them off and it being his members who voted Tory in the heartlands, but then swiftly changing tack on Sunday to blame Brexit.Next we have Corbyn and Mcdonnell steadfastly blaming brexit time and time again even claiming victory on the policy argument,despite the past present and defeated Labour Mp's saying it was Corbyn's unpopularity on the doorstep and people not trusting him with the Country's finances with the people believing they were undeliverable.
 
I guess the real question that comes out of this weekend is that is this really a period of reflection???,a line pushed out all weekend, or is this just space that Corbyn,Mcdonell,Mcluskey and Momentum are trying to give themselves to line up the next Jeremy Corbyn without a beard Rebecca Long Bailey..

[Campsall rover]

Jon Lansman Momentums founder tweeted "Winning" is the small bit that matters to Political elites who want to keep power for themselves...Seriously??? Do Labour want to be a party that can govern this country in the future or revel in the glorious socialist defeat..

 I've watched a lot of interviews this weekend ranging from McCluskey denying his part in the loss and blaming the Policy's.Despite the fact he sat on the executive committee that signed them off and it being his members who voted Tory in the heartlands, but then swiftly changing tack on Sunday to blame Brexit.Next we have Corbyn and Mcdonnell steadfastly blaming brexit time and time again even claiming victory on the policy argument,despite the past present and defeated Labour Mp's saying it was Corbyn's unpopularity on the doorstep and people not trusting him with the Country's finances with the people believing they were undeliverable.
 
I guess the real question that comes out of this weekend is that is this really a period of reflection???,a line pushed out all weekend, or is this just space that Corbyn,Mcdonell,Mcluskey and Momentum are trying to give themselves to line up the next Jeremy Corbyn without a beard Rebecca Long Bailey..

If they are then Labour are history. Finished, buried, never to be seen again.
That is not good for this country. We need a strong opposition for the sake of democracy and sensible politics. We need a centre left party to argue against a centre right Party.
Yes Boris is centre right, i know many of you disagree, but you watch what he does, he is going to surprise a lot of people over the next few years.

[Ldr]

Jon Lansman Momentums founder tweeted "Winning" is the small bit that matters to Political elites who want to keep power for themselves...Seriously??? Do Labour want to be a party that can govern this country in the future or revel in the glorious socialist defeat..

 I've watched a lot of interviews this weekend ranging from McCluskey denying his part in the loss and blaming the Policy's.Despite the fact he sat on the executive committee that signed them off and it being his members who voted Tory in the heartlands, but then swiftly changing tack on Sunday to blame Brexit.Next we have Corbyn and Mcdonnell steadfastly blaming brexit time and time again even claiming victory on the policy argument,despite the past present and defeated Labour Mp's saying it was Corbyn's unpopularity on the doorstep and people not trusting him with the Country's finances with the people believing they were undeliverable.
 
I guess the real question that comes out of this weekend is that is this really a period of reflection???,a line pushed out all weekend, or is this just space that Corbyn,Mcdonell,Mcluskey and Momentum are trying to give themselves to line up the next Jeremy Corbyn without a beard Rebecca Long Bailey..

If they are then Labour are history. Finished, buried, never to be seen again.
That is not good for this country. We need a strong opposition for the sake of democracy and sensible politics. We need a centre left party to argue against a centre right Party.
Yes Boris is centre right, i know many of you disagree, but you watch what he does, he is going to surprise a lot of people over the next few years.

The problem is perception CR. When a party has gone a far left as labour have, and their supporters see that a normal, anything vaguely centre or centre right would be seen as dangerously far right

[Campsall rover]

Jon Lansman Momentums founder tweeted "Winning" is the small bit that matters to Political elites who want to keep power for themselves...Seriously??? Do Labour want to be a party that can govern this country in the future or revel in the glorious socialist defeat..

 I've watched a lot of interviews this weekend ranging from McCluskey denying his part in the loss and blaming the Policy's.Despite the fact he sat on the executive committee that signed them off and it being his members who voted Tory in the heartlands, but then swiftly changing tack on Sunday to blame Brexit.Next we have Corbyn and Mcdonnell steadfastly blaming brexit time and time again even claiming victory on the policy argument,despite the past present and defeated Labour Mp's saying it was Corbyn's unpopularity on the doorstep and people not trusting him with the Country's finances with the people believing they were undeliverable.
 
I guess the real question that comes out of this weekend is that is this really a period of reflection???,a line pushed out all weekend, or is this just space that Corbyn,Mcdonell,Mcluskey and Momentum are trying to give themselves to line up the next Jeremy Corbyn without a beard Rebecca Long Bailey..

If they are then Labour are history. Finished, buried, never to be seen again.
That is not good for this country. We need a strong opposition for the sake of democracy and sensible politics. We need a centre left party to argue against a centre right Party.
Yes Boris is centre right, i know many of you disagree, but you watch what he does, he is going to surprise a lot of people over the next few years.

The problem is perception CR. When a party has gone a far left as labour have, and their supporters see that a normal, anything vaguely centre or centre right would be seen as dangerously far right

Tell BST he doesn’t seem to see it that way. 
I agree 100%
It’s all about where you draw the lines of left, centre & right.

[selby]

 Paul, he will have to do something, whoever won would have had to bring investment and central government spending away from London and the south east.
   It is common sense, what we have witnessed is a revolution in parts of the country without force, using the ballot box instead of guns.
   Common sense dictates that for the Tories to keep power, what elections are all about, he needs to invest in those areas at the expense of London and the south east who have had everything thrown at them because of their proximity to Europe.
   Lapse into the same old same old and the regions will be even more disaffected.

[wing commander]

 i've said before that i want to see a strong opposition party.I am not adverse to centre left politics or centre right,thats my own personal spectrum.

Like most people, when it comes to a Election i want to be thinking about which party is best to vote for,not trying to figure out which is the best worst.So it's in my interests for Labour to get this next step right.

However i have watched a lot of politics this weekend,many many interviews and frankly none of the one's coming from Labour people has filled me with much hope tbh.You cant blame the right wing press for that as it came out of their own mouths..

There is always another reason why the public reject hard socialism and this time it's brexit and that might be the case but it seems to me the party is preparing to bury it's head in the sand and go down the same lines as before with the only reform being them going for a, Woman who is not from London.

The Tory's will live or die by their performance over the next 5 years,but if they do fail it will be a big mistake if Labour believe that will automatically get them in,as this election has proved..

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

i've said before that i want to see a strong opposition party.I am not adverse to centre left politics or centre right,thats my own personal spectrum.

Like most people, when it comes to a Election i want to be thinking about which party is best to vote for,not trying to figure out which is the best worst.So it's in my interests for Labour to get this next step right.

However i have watched a lot of politics this weekend,many many interviews and frankly none of the one's coming from Labour people has filled me with much hope tbh.You cant blame the right wing press for that as it came out of their own mouths..

There is always another reason why the public reject hard socialism and this time it's brexit and that might be the case but it seems to me the party is preparing to bury it's head in the sand and go down the same lines as before with the only reform being them going for a, Woman who is not from London.

The Tory's will live or die by their performance over the next 5 years,but if they do fail it will be a big mistake if Labour believe that will automatically get them in,as this election has proved..

Fully agree.  The interesting thing watching a lot of the labour guys on tv is how many of them actually appear to still think they are right.  It isn't all about the press but actually as some of the labour MPs/former MPs have said it's the policies and people aswell.  I do think Labour could have won with a less hard left form of policies, they just went too far, a bit more to the centre would have attracted more people in, that and much better leadership.

But frankly the country is more centre right than centre to left wing and that gives them a problem.

[Filo]

i've said before that i want to see a strong opposition party.I am not adverse to centre left politics or centre right,thats my own personal spectrum.

Like most people, when it comes to a Election i want to be thinking about which party is best to vote for,not trying to figure out which is the best worst.So it's in my interests for Labour to get this next step right.

However i have watched a lot of politics this weekend,many many interviews and frankly none of the one's coming from Labour people has filled me with much hope tbh.You cant blame the right wing press for that as it came out of their own mouths..

There is always another reason why the public reject hard socialism and this time it's brexit and that might be the case but it seems to me the party is preparing to bury it's head in the sand and go down the same lines as before with the only reform being them going for a, Woman who is not from London.

The Tory's will live or die by their performance over the next 5 years,but if they do fail it will be a big mistake if Labour believe that will automatically get them in,as this election has proved..

Fully agree.  The interesting thing watching a lot of the labour guys on tv is how many of them actually appear to still think they are right.  It isn't all about the press but actually as some of the labour MPs/former MPs have said it's the policies and people aswell.  I do think Labour could have won with a less hard left form of policies, they just went too far, a bit more to the centre would have attracted more people in, that and much better leadership.

But frankly the country is more centre right than centre to left wing and that gives them a problem.

With hindsight, I don’t think Labour could have won, the big issue seems to be Brexit at all costs to people living in areas like around here, ince Brexit is done, and the Brexit party disappears, those votes will migrate back to Labour, the Brexit Party massively hurt Labour, not the Conservatives

[BillyStubbsTears]

I think that's right Filo.

The Tories' supporters are 70/30 Leave/Remain but the Remain section weren't passionate about it and would still vote Tory.

Labour were 30/70 but the problem was that BOTH groups were passionate. So Labour was going to lose support whichever way it tipped.

I thought and I still think that the better electoral strategy for Labour was to be more fully committed to Remain. That was clear from polling a year ago and it's reinforced by the results last week. There's analysis by Datapraxis that says up to 30 seats could have been saved if Lab hadn't lost so many Remain supporters to the Greens and LDs.

But Labour was never going to be in a position to do more than clip the Tory majority.

By the time the next election comes along, Labour will have had only two Elections in nearly 60 years where they got >40% of the vote and a decent majority (1997 and 2001). The reasons for that should be front and centre of all discussion on where Labour goes from here.

I'll give you my take. It's similar to where I've been politically most of my adult life.

Labour IS broadly right on the economic and domestic issues. The Thatcherite era of dominance of the private sector and shrinking of Government has been running into the rocks all round the world for a decade and there's a change needed which addresses that issue. We need stronger Govt involvement in both the economy and society. And the evidence is that those policies ARE popular in the country. But it has to be sensible. Prudent. To start with at least.

Allied to that, we need a foreign policy that faces up to the fact that free movement will have gone by 2024. And it won't be coming back soon. That said, we need to unambiguously show that we are supporting the values of Europe, in a world dominated by big powers (of which we, on our own, are not one).

We need to stop the student obsession with injustices around the world that we can't help if we're not in power. What is the point of announcing his much you care for the Palestinians if that ends up morphing into real or perceived anti-Semitism and is weaponised by the other side against you? That's not to say that people on the Left should care about injustice. It's just that caring without power is an indulgence.

All that said, I've no idea at the moment who the leader would be to advance that. Kier Starmer has the intellect and I think he would broadly support those policies. But I'm not sure he has the charisma. Long-Bailey always sounds like she's lecturing people and I worry she would make the same mistakes as Corbyn on foreign policy. Jess Philips has plenty of passion but that's not enough.

[wing commander]

That's maybe true Filo but even without Brexit i don't think we would be looking at a Labour goverment.You have to remember this was the most unpopular goverment since Guy Fawkes fancied a bonfire and still Labour turned it into their biggest defeat in 90 years.That is some achievment..

Brexit played it's part no doubt.We've debated it to death on here and whilst posters like Sydney and BST have argued cases for their position on a second referendum.They were clearly in the minority when it came to the grass root vote.

The biggest Factor was Corbyn,Even BST who i admire for his steadfast defence in Socialism didn't believe he was the right man for the job so how could we be expected too, apart from the membership he was totally rejected on the doorstep,every mp has said the same thing and i've heard lots of interviews with die in the wool Labour voters giving their reasons why and there were a few from Brexit,his IRA connection (people don't forget),anti semitism and what they believer were his sweet shop policy's..

Whats surprised me is that most Labour mp's who had trod the roads over the last few months knew exactly what was coming and while we were surprised they clearly weren't..

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Some good points, I think BST touches on a strong point though, does labour want to be in power or stick to it's principles tightly, the two are not closely compatible in all circumstances and that is the problem Labour really has right now.

What I would say Labour has done is move the debate to the left in a lot of areas.  The Tory policies economically are at best central, not at all right wing I would say in many areas, there will be greater funding in a lot of areas, though still some reduction in controls etc I am sure - we are seeing signs of that in some of the mooted policies this weekend.  If the tories invest in the north as they claim they will, Labour can well claim they've facilitated that, granted they've lost out politically due to it but in terms of what's actually happening on the ground it would have yielded some positives.  I actually think if there is more spending etc, that Corbyn will be happy that he has at least got some legacy.

[Campsall rover]

Paul, he will have to do something, whoever won would have had to bring investment and central government spending away from London and the south east.
   It is common sense, what we have witnessed is a revolution in parts of the country without force, using the ballot box instead of guns.
   Common sense dictates that for the Tories to keep power, what elections are all about, he needs to invest in those areas at the expense of London and the south east who have had everything thrown at them because of their proximity to Europe.
   Lapse into the same old same old and the regions will be even more disaffected.

Agree Brian. Boris is not as stupid as he looks or is made out to be. Quite the opposite he is an extremely intelligent man.
He now has an opportunity to be the Prime minister for 15 years if he wants to.
His policies and spending programme will dictate whether he can achieve that goal.

Of course if there is no credible opposition then it is a given anyway the Tory’s will be the government.

We need to see a massive change to the centre from Labour if they are going to be in power by 2029
2024 has gone for them already imo

[BillyStubbsTears]

This pretty much mirrors what I said..

https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1206533259737391104
 
Superb analysis. Labour MUST listen to this.

[Sprotyrover]

I recommend Rebecca Long Bailey for the next Car crash. Face like a Puppet,no eyebrows and legs like two Sausage rolls! Plus there's not a lot going on between those two ears of hers, she's Ideal!

[BobG]

See what I mean folk?

Sproty is the living embodiment of the poison coursing now through society.

BobG

[Sprotyrover]

See what I mean folk?

Sproty is the living embodiment of the poison coursing now through society.

BobG

That depends on which side of the fence you are sitting.

[selby]

   He is Not bad at eyeing a woman up though Bob.

[Glyn_Wigley]

See what I mean folk?

Sproty is the living embodiment of the poison coursing now through society.

BobG

That depends on which side of the fence you are sitting.

Why? Does misogyny become less offensive according to peoples' political leanings?

[BigH]

I recommend Rebecca Long Bailey for the next Car crash, face like a Puppet,no eyebrows and legs like two Sausage rolls! Plus there's not a lot going on between those two ears of hers, she's Ideal!

Sproty, put a full stop after 'crash', leave it at that and I'm with you.

I can not believe how anyone in Labour's ranks could be so utterly stupid as to support anyone tainted by Corbyn as the possible next Party Leader. The mere fact that Corbyn is an advocate of Long-Bailey should be warning enough that she should be avoided. Labour-wreckers the lot of them.

For pity's sake.

[Bentley Bullet]

See what I mean folk?

Sproty is the living embodiment of the poison coursing now through society.

BobG

That depends on which side of the fence you are sitting.

Why? Does misogyny become less offensive according to peoples' political leanings?

You won't see many effigies of Maggie Thatcher burning in a Conservative club.

[Glyn_Wigley]

See what I mean folk?

Sproty is the living embodiment of the poison coursing now through society.

BobG

That depends on which side of the fence you are sitting.

Why? Does misogyny become less offensive according to peoples' political leanings?

You won't see many effigies of Maggie Thatcher burning in a Conservative club.

Ah, as expected the usual just-you-wait-for-it-it will-appear meaningless Bentley b*llocks non sequitur.

[Sprotyrover]

I recommend Rebecca Long Bailey for the next Car crash, face like a Puppet,no eyebrows and legs like two Sausage rolls! Plus there's not a lot going on between those two ears of hers, she's Ideal!

Sproty, put a full stop after 'crash', leave it at that and I'm with you.

I can not believe how anyone in Labour's ranks could be so utterly stupid as to support anyone tainted by Corbyn as the possible next Party Leader. The mere fact that Corbyn is an advocate of Long-Bailey should be warning enough that she should be avoided. Labour-wreckers the lot of them.

For pity's sake.

Will do sir!

[Bentley Bullet]

See what I mean folk?

Sproty is the living embodiment of the poison coursing now through society.

BobG

That depends on which side of the fence you are sitting.

Why? Does misogyny become less offensive according to peoples' political leanings?

You won't see many effigies of Maggie Thatcher burning in a Conservative club.

Ah, as expected the usual just-you-wait-for-it-it will-appear meaningless Bentley b*llocks non sequitur.

Why is it non sequitur, Mr Wiggerly?

[auckleyflyer]

Who has been all over the TV last 4 days??
Same job needed with Momentum that his dad did with Millitent.
Step fwd :... Steven Kinnock

[idler]

See what I mean folk?

Sproty is the living embodiment of the poison coursing now through society.

BobG

That depends on which side of the fence you are sitting.

Why? Does misogyny become less offensive according to peoples' political leanings?

You won't see many effigies of Maggie Thatcher burning in a Conservative club.

What about an effigy of Grenfall Tower?

[Axholme Lion]

Can you still join Labour for a few quid to vote in the next leader?

[Sprotyrover]

Can you still join Labour for a few quid to vote in the next leader?

I've joined I am voting for Corbyn to stay, or Dianne Abbott