League 1 & 2 to be regionalised?

[DonnyOsmond]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8242633/League-One-League-Two-clubs-regional-divide-bid-stay-afloat-coronavirus.html

Only an idea at this point but I'd support it. Would mean at lot more derbies.

[phil o sophical]

It's not the worst idea i've heard and in terms of cost it should make a difference, whether it be travel cost or in theory better gate receipts with more local games. Clubs may well be forced into taking decisions like this just to survive and not just the smaller clubs either.

[IDM]

A few weeks ago before we were anywhere near a lockdown and just as football was stopping, I suggested regional split leagues for next season as this would allow a shorter season to take into account the current one finishing late.

If I can find the thread I will re post it.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I can see some merit in regionalising the third tier and beyond, as we've discussed before.

Pros being fewer travel costs for club and fans alike and possibly more local derbies.

Cons maybe the promotion, relegation system to and from the Championship.

Assuming winners of North and South would be promoted automatically. So assume then it would be a play off for teams finishing second in each division to decide the 3rd promoted team?

We would lose the usual play off system which means seasons could be effectively over much sooner for many clubs. Unless you introduced play offs for teams finishing 2nd to 5th, to get into a play off final?? Too many play off games perhaps.

Then there's relegation from the Championship. If 3 Southern teams are relegated then there's some considerable shuffling to do to accommodate those teams in the Southern division, assuming other Midlands based clubs may have to be switched from South to North? It could be conceivable we could play in North one season, then be switched to South the next??

Interesting.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I guess the question is how do you do it and to what extent?  Perhaps semi regionalise it?  EG a L1 North and L1 South to determine a phase 1. 

Two lots of 12 play each other twice so 22 games.  Then the top 6 from North and South and the bottom 6 from North and South form a second league of the same starting at 0 points?  Effectively two seasons within a season - might be more fun and also cut the travel and costs, you keep the local games but some element of national games too.

[IDM]

The first part of what you say was the basis of my idea for a shortened 2020/21 season.  Split each division into two, play a short season (22 games) and then promotion/relegation play offs.  The scale of the play off phase being determined by how much time is available.  I would include the championship too.

My thought was only for one season though.

[rich1471]

National League clubs have voted to end the 2019-20 season at its current point, with promotion and relegation outcomes "under careful consideration".

The league's board had urged clubs in its three divisions to vote in favour of ending the regular season without further games because of coronavirus.

The league said there was a "clear majority of clubs in favour" from the almost 90% of responses returned. from bbc

[drfchound]

I guess the question is how do you do it and to what extent?  Perhaps semi regionalise it?  EG a L1 North and L1 South to determine a phase 1. 

Two lots of 12 play each other twice so 22 games.  Then the top 6 from North and South and the bottom 6 from North and South form a second league of the same starting at 0 points?  Effectively two seasons within a season - might be more fun and also cut the travel and costs, you keep the local games but some element of national games too.

It would be good for the teams involved in the playoffs that you mentioned but for the teams who missed out there would be a serious lack of income by only playing 22 matches.

[selby]

I agree Hound, and that is why I would take the hit this season, and play as near a full season ASAP from the first available date after July.
   Anything else will compound the loss especially to the lower clubs.
  You can bet your bottom dollar, that if China or any other country declare open house, the top clubs will be off to play games have training camps and televise games back here on Sky or any other TV channel that will show the games.
  The only teams out of pocket will be the the lower league teams like ourselves, and the big clubs will use the situation to their own benefit knowing that supporter interest in those clubs will wane over time and give them a new income stream to tap into.

[IDM]

So lower division fans would be put off from returning to lower league football, in say a year or so, due to premier league fixtures being televised from places like China.?

If that’s the case we wouldn’t have had fans going to games over the last couple of decades with top level footie already on telly..

Also there’s no point closing the current season to look to start a full 2020/21 season close to normal time, as it’s unlikely that we can start then anyway..

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I guess the question is how do you do it and to what extent?  Perhaps semi regionalise it?  EG a L1 North and L1 South to determine a phase 1. 

Two lots of 12 play each other twice so 22 games.  Then the top 6 from North and South and the bottom 6 from North and South form a second league of the same starting at 0 points?  Effectively two seasons within a season - might be more fun and also cut the travel and costs, you keep the local games but some element of national games too.

It would be good for the teams involved in the playoffs that you mentioned but for the teams who missed out there would be a serious lack of income by only playing 22 matches.

That isnt what I said. Bottom halves would also form a league so youd have 44 games for all.

[drfchound]

I guess the question is how do you do it and to what extent?  Perhaps semi regionalise it?  EG a L1 North and L1 South to determine a phase 1. 

Two lots of 12 play each other twice so 22 games.  Then the top 6 from North and South and the bottom 6 from North and South form a second league of the same starting at 0 points?  Effectively two seasons within a season - might be more fun and also cut the travel and costs, you keep the local games but some element of national games too.

It would be good for the teams involved in the playoffs that you mentioned but for the teams who missed out there would be a serious lack of income by only playing 22 matches.

That isnt what I said. Bottom halves would also form a league so youd have 44 games for all.

Ah yes, I had misread your post, sorry.
I am guessing that there would still be relegation to a regionalised L2 then and the teams that finished in the bottom six of N and S in the first half season would be involved in that.

[The Beast]

I’ve always thought this is a good idea, don’t think the London exiles will be to happy but it definitely makes sense. One of my worries about it all this is is that when people look into changing the layouts of leagues etc, the top clubs undoubtedly will look for an excuse to manipulate things even more in to their favour ie Premier League 2, no promotion/relegation etc.

[phil old leake]

I can see the financial logic in this

I have to say when I was seeing games I used to enjoy the day out going to matches. Am I the only one
Going away when there’s very few of you is great

[selby]

 If the situation extends how people are now expecting it to, that premiership 2 division you are promoting might only have about eight teams in it, and some of those like Barnsley will not be the teams they want in it.

[Padge_DRFC]

Would love this for a season. Those in the Midlands who do the least traveling normally would have the most to do. Apart from London getting down south is crap from Donny and expensive

[Superspy]

Assuming winners of North and South would be promoted automatically. So assume then it would be a play off for teams finishing second in each division to decide the 3rd promoted team?

We would lose the usual play off system which means seasons could be effectively over much sooner for many clubs. Unless you introduced play offs for teams finishing 2nd to 5th, to get into a play off final?? Too many play off games perhaps.

Sorry if this was suggested elsewhere in the thread, I didn't spot it, but couldn't you do a home and away play off semi between the teams finishing 2nd and 3rd in each region? Surely that gives the same amount of PO games as we have now, the only real difference is that you're guaranteed a North vs South final due to the league structure.

[Barmby Rover]

When 3 I(or 4) teams are relegated and they all come from London and the south, what happens then?

[IDM]

Teams near the midlands swap divisions.

That’s how it was done before, as well as in the lower leagues..

[drfchound]

Didn’t Grimsby play in Div3 South for a short spell.

[Barmby Rover]

Teams near the midlands swap divisions.

That’s how it was done before, as well as in the lower leagues..

That does not answer the question, say it is Luton, Charlton and QPR all relegated, how can you put them in the Northern division, or do you stop northern teams from being promoted. It could be very awkward to keep the numbers right in each division without messing clubs about.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Didn’t Grimsby play in Div3 South for a short spell.

Not quite technically correct, although correct in spirit. They did play in the original Div 3 in 1920/21, which was a re-badged Southern League plus Grimsby. After 1 year a  Div 3 N was set up and the original Div 3 became Div 3 S. Grimsby moved to Div 3 N.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Teams near the midlands swap divisions.

That’s how it was done before, as well as in the lower leagues..

That does not answer the question, say it is Luton, Charlton and QPR all relegated, how can you put them in the Northern division, or do you stop northern teams from being promoted. It could be very awkward to keep the numbers right in each division without messing clubs about.

In that case, those 3 clubs would move into Div3 S and three clubs from the Midlands (say, Peterborough, Coventry and Walsall) would move from Div3 S to Div3 N.

[IDM]

Teams near the midlands swap divisions.

That’s how it was done before, as well as in the lower leagues..

That does not answer the question, say it is Luton, Charlton and QPR all relegated, how can you put them in the Northern division, or do you stop northern teams from being promoted. It could be very awkward to keep the numbers right in each division without messing clubs about.

BST says what I was going to say.  Also promotion from N and S divisions happens, and the remaining N and S divisions are organised including the relegated sides to best fit the geography.

There is a very small chance that over time, all the most northerly lower league teams get promoted to the championship meaning Div 3 N could effectively be a midlands division.!

[phil old leake]

It’s fine saying that teams can swap between leagues to keep north and south divide but there would have to be very strict guidelines on how you select north or south to prevent any problems with teams being swapped to suit the league and tv

[IDM]

We are taking about the third division.? TV would have nowt to do with it.

[selby]

  When Ferguson was manager the cost savings would not be that large, if I remember rightly the only game we didn't stop in a hotel overnight was Mansfield away one of the seasons he was manager.