How bad have we become?

[ColinDouglasHandshake]

Can't even be bothered to explain. Yes, i'm a bad fan who hates the club. That do?

[Padge_DRFC]

You could argue that the South West is largely a huge rural area and the talent that is there is few and far between and the bigger clubs get first dibs over Exeter.

If we aren't able to recruit, produce, develop and use young players in the first team to our benefit and then sell them on, then why do we have one in the first place? It is a waste of resources.

Take your point though about the competition in the S.Yorks area.

Another issue is our loan signings. Surely as we are so close geographically to many other larger clubs, we can take advantage of their youngsters or cast offs both from a first team loan perspective and from the perspective of adding them to our youth / reserve set ups?

For example. We signed Rodrigo Vilca from Newcastle on loan. Pile of shite. Cukur from Watford. Worse than a Cabbage Patch Doll and less mobile etc etc.

1. Vilca & Cukur are no longer with the club so they're history, why then use them as examples especially as they weren't brought to the club by the present manager?

2. We are 'competing' for young talent with the likes of Leeds, Huddersfield, Rotherham, Barnsley & the two Sheffield clubs.

3. Name me two 'cast offs' from 'larger clubs' that would enhance our youth set up.

It isn't my job to name cast offs from larger clubs. It is the job of the bloke at DRFC paid to find these players and isn't doing so.

Vilca & Cukur i have used as examples as they are from clubs that are miles away, plus they were shit. Why can't we find players more local to us? I guess that question maybe partly answered by your second point.

My answer to that would be to just scrap the reserves / youth set up as it is an unproductive and unnecessary expense that the club are not benefitting from.

I'd rather the club lowered ticket prices for loyal fans and did away with areas of the club that are providing no benefit but is costing money.

You need to read your last two paragraphs then give yourself a good slap.

Jones, Horton, Ravenhill, Seaman are 4 players you wouldn’t have seen in a Rovers shirt if you had your way & scrapped our youth set up.

And now no doubt you’ll come back & tell me how s**t they are!

As for your final paragraph, it beggars belief.
Scrap all ‘unnecessary projects’ (unnecessary because you deem them to be!) including the reserves & youth set ups for cheaper tickets for (& this I had to read twice to believe) ‘loyal fans’!

I hope you don’t dare place yourself in that category as you ‘kick the club’ as it struggles to drag itself out of the current mire it finds itself in.

Shame on you.

Seaman never came through our youth team fyi.

[Colin C No.3]

Thanks for that, I feel such a fool.

[Colin C No.3]

Can't even be bothered to explain. Yes, i'm a bad fan who hates the club. That do?

Of course you can’t be ‘bothered’ to explain.

[ColinDouglasHandshake]

Can't even be bothered to explain. Yes, i'm a bad fan who hates the club. That do?

Of course you can’t be ‘bothered’ to explain.

Anyone notice an echo in here?

[tyke1962]

  Our biggest problem is no u23s, it is causing the club problems not being able to bring in players from good levels at non league clubs between the u18s and the first team squad who have gone on to good things at other clubs and representative level, The one big decision that has cost the club big time.
  The situation is if we see a player over the age of 16 who has missed the academy intake start date because it is linked to an educational course unless they are willing like a couple of players who fortunately were on another course at Doncaster Technical College who with the Rovers combined for them to train with the group  and are willing to take their chance for nothing when all the players around them are contracted while they play for travel expenses there is no pathway for players.
  There are no part time pro's nowadays, because of travel costs no amateurs from colleges and universities because they can play non league for decent money and the reason why the standard of non league is so good especially at and near the top levels.
   So as a club, if we have not signed a player by the time they are 16 to play in our u18s team, we are consigned to bringing in players who have probably been released from other clubs and are deemed not good enough by those clubs and the leap from u18s to first team is massive very few will succeed to do as Hasani Greaves and Ravenhill are finding out.
  No u23s is the worst decision the club have made, and has been a handicap for  our last two managers and Gary McSheffrey at present.

I know from reading your posts you are an enthusiastic supporter of youth football and often promote it on this board and it's a very admirable position .

This club of mine invested millions of PL money in to our academy in 1998 and built a fine facility , one of the very best in the country at that time , it's not quite in that category now because many clubs have built better ones but none the less it still remains a decent facility .

All weather pitches , an indoor training complex , changing rooms , classroom facilities , office staff and an Academy Head .

It costs almost £2m a year to run and whilst it's brought players to the first team such as Danny Rose , Jordan Clark the vast majority who have made it tends to be at league one or two level .

Only John Stones and less so Mason Holgate have really made it to the top , two players in 24 years .

The academy is a loss maker , hardly worth the bother .

The irony is pre academy the 96/97 team that were promoted to the PL contained Dave Watson , Adie Moses , Scott Jones , Andy Liddell and Nicky Eaden who all came through the old system .

Northern Intermediate League playing on the old co-op sports ground , dog shyte n all .

The irony isn't lost on me .

[Lesonthewest]

We must be bad ,even Bogle has scored 2 in 2 games for Hartlepool

Create chances for strikers often enough strikers will score, create chances now and then for them and they won’t score, it’s as simple as that

Might also be an idea to play your centre forward, who looks half decent, down the middle, instead of on the wing.

[Filo]

We must be bad ,even Bogle has scored 2 in 2 games for Hartlepool

Create chances for strikers often enough strikers will score, create chances now and then for them and they won’t score, it’s as simple as that

Might also be an idea to play your centre forward, who looks half decent, down the middle, instead of on the wing.

Then we would have to put the centre forward who is actually a winger on the wing

[Metalmicky]

It's not getting any better is it...... and I personally feel a bit sorry for Wellens here.  He didn't get the best of luck on the injuries front and wasn't given a pot of money to try and sort it all out..... so the board sack him and next to nothing has improved. 

I know he was divisive and not everyone's cup of tea, but he must be a bit aggrieved that he wasn't given a bit longer at the helm.... and maybe a bit more financial backing. 

[pib]

It's not getting any better is it...... and I personally feel a bit sorry for Wellens here.  He didn't get the best of luck on the injuries front and wasn't given a pot of money to try and sort it all out..... so the board sack him and next to nothing has improved. 

I know he was divisive and not everyone's cup of tea, but he must be a bit aggrieved that he wasn't given a bit longer at the helm.... and maybe a bit more financial backing.

He may well have turned out to be the better man to lead us in L2 as well, given his track record.

[selby]

  Tyke, we don't spend anything like that amount on the youth set up, nor am I advocating that we do, its silly money at that level, and we compete well with you when we play you  so I don't see the need, although your lads have a higher mountain to climb to progress I agree, and higher than that golden generation you remember which also coincided with an astute manager and some great signings in the transfer market, and Adie Moses I think picked up from our academy.
  Anyway, the fact is that part of the moneys granted to the clubs by the EFL/FA every season is to help to provide and promote a youth coaching set up and academies,  if Tyke and Colindouglashandshake want the clubs to lose that grant that more or less covers our input to the academy not so Barnsley's if Tykes figures are correct but being a Cat2 club is significantly more than ours then by all means go ahead and scrap the academies, but don't expect the monies to become available elsewhere, it will not be there to spend on other things, nor should it be Huddersfield soon kept a smaller academy set up when  they realised they would be left with facilities they would have to fund from other funds to sustain.
  Most of the great training facilities clubs have have been by and large part funded because of the clubs having academies, not in spite of them and in many cases are a large part of the overall funding of clubs when used by other companies for events etc. or hired out to sports clubs such as walking football teams and are a financial benefit to the club and the local community being used for social activities for players not as fortunate health wise as the majority of us.
  Don't go about with your eyes closed, there is a much larger picture this club can be proud of and is a big benefit to Doncaster as a whole, and I have no doubt Tyke, in fact I know  that Barnsley Football club are just as committed and part of the wider community offering facilities as we are.

[selby]

  I thought discussion would be stunted when the repercussions of getting rid of the academy was spelt out to you, not to say the getting rid of some very good and hard working coaches and support staff who put a lot of time and effort in to give lads and girls the chance to progress in the game.
  The academy is also funded by a group of well meaning supporters who buy lottery numbers every week to support the academy, would you want them to keep chipping in? would you consult them? basically it is not a drain on the club itself in fact a contributor to the overall scheme of things.
  If we get players through it is a bonus, something that is hard to do, but things are improving and I think and hope we could have a steady stream shoving through in the near future.
  To get rid of the academy would be at best short sighted, and could end up a financial as well as a social disaster for some very needy groups of people who have little else to look forward to.
  I don't even think some of the posters on here know what this club has become, its not just a place where some Knuckle draggers can go for a couple of hours to a game and go home and hit the buttons to try and prove just what a great tactician they are and the management are are crap anymore, its left them light years behind.

[WarwickRover]

  Tyke, we don't spend anything like that amount on the youth set up, nor am I advocating that we do, its silly money at that level, and we compete well with you when we play you  so I don't see the need, although your lads have a higher mountain to climb to progress I agree, and higher than that golden generation you remember which also coincided with an astute manager and some great signings in the transfer market, and Adie Moses I think picked up from our academy.
  Anyway, the fact is that part of the moneys granted to the clubs by the EFL/FA every season is to help to provide and promote a youth coaching set up and academies,  if Tyke and Colindouglashandshake want the clubs to lose that grant that more or less covers our input to the academy not so Barnsley's if Tykes figures are correct but being a Cat2 club is significantly more than ours then by all means go ahead and scrap the academies, but don't expect the monies to become available elsewhere, it will not be there to spend on other things, nor should it be Huddersfield soon kept a smaller academy set up when  they realised they would be left with facilities they would have to fund from other funds to sustain.
  Most of the great training facilities clubs have have been by and large part funded because of the clubs having academies, not in spite of them and in many cases are a large part of the overall funding of clubs when used by other companies for events etc. or hired out to sports clubs such as walking football teams and are a financial benefit to the club and the local community being used for social activities for players not as fortunate health wise as the majority of us.
  Don't go about with your eyes closed, there is a much larger picture this club can be proud of and is a big benefit to Doncaster as a whole, and I have no doubt Tyke, in fact I know  that Barnsley Football club are just as committed and part of the wider community offering facilities as we are.

 

Fair play and well said ...... the bigger picture is perhaps some what temporarily forgotten ....... I am proud of the club i support and its contribution to Doncaster

[Upton Rover]

Terrible. At least we have next season to look forward to can't be any worse

It can be a lot worse with this set up, the answer is quite simple that the club doesn’t seem to want, and that’s a manager with experience at this level, AB, RW & GM are not the answer and till they revert back to recruiting a manager with experience we will never get out of this mess, and if anyone thinks that GM can get us out of the situation we find ourselves in, then you are kidding yourself, wishful thinking. I hope that come the end of this horrible season we change the thinking’s of the board and bring in experience, however doubt very much on that. We are down we all know that and if GM doesn’t salvage some pride by getting some good results then he’s simply got to go.

[ravenrover]

And copy paste repeat for every manager that doesn't suit your agenda

[Jonathan]

Terrible. At least we have next season to look forward to can't be any worse

It can be a lot worse with this set up, the answer is quite simple that the club doesn’t seem to want, and that’s a manager with experience at this level, AB, RW & GM are not the answer and till they revert back to recruiting a manager with experience we will never get out of this mess, and if anyone thinks that GM can get us out of the situation we find ourselves in, then you are kidding yourself, wishful thinking. I hope that come the end of this horrible season we change the thinking’s of the board and bring in experience, however doubt very much on that. We are down we all know that and if GM doesn’t salvage some pride by getting some good results then he’s simply got to go.

Darren Moore didn’t have much experience. But he got some good results so experience didn’t matter then.

Grant McCann only had limited experience (Wellens had more) but he got good results so it wasn’t an issue.

Ferguson had lots of experience. But many considered him unqualified to do the job of getting the best from his resources, so his experience wasn’t right.

A manager’s experience is only as good as the results he’s getting. In fact, scrap that, it’s only as good as the scoreline at a point in time. Most that watched the game on Saturday will have been happy that we got it tactically spot on in the first half and repeatedly carved them open through the middle. By the end of the game that’s (understandably given the result) forgotten and we’re back to going on about experience.

Most on here had practically written off the transfer window. We then brought in nine players and everything was great, but then when things didn’t change consistently overnight they’re the wrong players. Most on here had practically written off this sequence of games. But then when they go the way they expected they’re up in arms. 

I will say at least the Netto lot are consistent, they moan at everything and they always will no matter what happens as there’s a huge space in the social media ‘likes’ market for relentless negativity.

[GazLaz]

In football as in life a series of good or bad decisions compound. We’ve found ourself in a position where we are feeling the compound affects of a series of poor decisions further compounded by a bit of bad luck thrown in. Most clubs at most points in time are operating a touch either side of average with short term success or failure being defined by luck. As soon as a club makes a few decisions that affect the medium term stability that are of a negative value it’s easy to end up on the spiral we are on and we’ve seen at clubs like Sheff Wed, Sunderland, Scunny etc. there’s no overnight fix but identifying the issues early and rectifying them one by one can stop the slide. We’ve started to do that. It’s too late to save this season but hopefully we are back to something like a competent level of performance on and off the field by the start of next season.

[ForsolongaRover]

Terrible. At least we have next season to look forward to can't be any worse

It can be a lot worse with this set up, the answer is quite simple that the club doesn’t seem to want, and that’s a manager with experience at this level, AB, RW & GM are not the answer and till they revert back to recruiting a manager with experience we will never get out of this mess, and if anyone thinks that GM can get us out of the situation we find ourselves in, then you are kidding yourself, wishful thinking. I hope that come the end of this horrible season we change the thinking’s of the board and bring in experience, however doubt very much on that. We are down we all know that and if GM doesn’t salvage some pride by getting some good results then he’s simply got to go.

Darren Moore didn’t have much experience. But he got some good results do experience didn’t matter then.

Grant McCann only had limited experience (Wellens had more) but he got good results so it wasn’t an issue.

Ferguson had lots of experience. But many considered him unqualified to do the job of getting the best from his resources, so his experience wasn’t right.

A manager’s experience is only as good as the results he’s getting. In fact, scrap that, it’s only as good as the scoreline at a point in time. Most that watched the game on Saturday will have been happy that we got it tactically spot on in the first half and repeatedly carved them open through the middle. By the end of the game that’s (understandably given the result) forgotten and we’re back to going on about experience.

Most on here had practically written off the transfer window. We then brought in nine players and everything was great, but then when things didn’t change consistently overnight they’re the wrong players. Most on here had practically written off this sequence of games. But then when they go the way they expected they’re up in arms. 

I will say at least the Netto lot are consistent, they moan at everything and they always will no matter what happens as there’s a huge space in the social media ‘likes’ market for relentless negativity.

I agree. The value of good experience from which an individual learns and improves as a result is what is useful in any leadership role. “Experience” in itself is not intrinsically good. Having done the job before is not necessarily useful experience from which someone learns and improves. Some people may be unable to improve or fail to learn the lessons of their mistakes. Others are  sufficiently gifted to be able to take on role and perform well without having operated at that level previously. Steven Gerrard is such a person. He was not the first.

Consequently anyone who dismisses Gary McSheffery solely on the grounds that he is not “experienced” and couples it with the belief that someone else who has managed before and applied for the job would be better is doing no more than speculating.

Of course, the implication here is that those making the choice rejected someone meeting the critics’ criteria who would now be shining in the role. It’s a lot to swallow and I wonder how many of those who advocate it really appreciate the difficulty of relating it to the real world and the circumstances of DRFC.