Last night was worrying for a few reasons

[Ronnie Dovers]

Firstly, McSheffrey didn't learn from the Mansfield game. We can't play Clayton in a midfield 2, particularly with Tomlin ahead of them. It means our midfield offers no protection to the defence, and we leave a huge gap in front of our CBs when we lose possession which opposition are now exploiting. So I think he got it wrong from the start.

Secondly, the subs he made didn't solve this issue. In fact, the subs made us worse, taking us from poor to abysmal. The last 30 minutes we looked like a pub team who'd just thrown on the only 11 players who turned up (several still hungover) and told them to get on with it. No structure at all, they played through us at will. They should've scored at least 4 in the last 30 minutes. It was very concerning.

There's still time to sort it, but I think he needs to make changes to personnel and/or formation at the weekend.

[Surrey Rover]

One of his comments in the after match interview was:

“All in all I think we've got done by five or six sets of faster legs than what we've got."

What concerns me about that comment is of the eleven who started last night he has signed eight of them so bemoaning the lack of pace within the team is down to him.

I kept looking towards McSheffrey in the second half last night for signs of inspiration but he constantly stands arms folded regularly turning his back towards the pitch and looking down at his feet when passes go astray or attacking moves break down.

With the next three games at home to Swindon and Crawley followed by Rochdale away I think we’ll have a very clear view of where this season is going by the beginning of October.

[Alan Southstand]

But, GM doesn’t appear to be taking any responsibility for it, claiming it’s the players yet again. That’s the most worrying thing for me.

I agree with your opening paragraph and I said the very same thing in my comments about the Mansfield game - there’s a huge gap behind our ‘midfield’. The trouble is neither Clayton or Biggins are natural ‘sitters’, in fact Biggins lacks the discipline to stick to the task. We’ve needed a DM’er now for how long? Until that gets put right, then it’s going to be a slog this season.

The next problem is the 3 in front of the 2. He had Hurst & Molyneux stuck out hugging the touch line for most of the Mansfield game, when most of the pressure was coming through the middle! It’s not rocket science, Gary, it’s 2 v 3 and one of those 2 is 33 years old!

You mention the subs making us worse, we’ll, again, it was exactly like that v Mansfield. Now, who exactly is shirking responsibility here?

As for singling Miller out, when there’s so much more that’s wrong, is simply beyond a joke. Is he losing his marbles, I wonder?

We all hope he gets something sorted before Saturday, but if we’re playing 2 v 3 in midfield again, then GM should be on his final warning.

[Daniel_Smith]

I'm not a fan at all of slagging off your own players in public. Leave it for the dressing room.

I'd try and unearth my earlier posts about our previous positive results this reason being INSPITE of McSheffrey's leadership - but whenever I've attempted to bring to light this fact, I've been abused by those who won't allow anything negative to be said about McSheffrey or the board.

The issues were set in motion when the board appointed McSheffrey as opposed to bringing in an experienced manager.

I hate saying I told you so, but....

[Panda]

I watch GM's demeanour at home games and it is infuriating. Whilst many excellent managers don't jump around and scream, GM does nothing. He's statuesque most of the time, like Surrey Rover says with his arms folded. He's essentially a glorified P.E teacher.

If you watch Matt Taylor, Exeter manager which i've done a lot of due to watching a bit of Exeter. He isn't a screamer. He's a bit like GM but he organises, cajoles, encourages, gives direct orders and has an understanding of the game. His first season or so he was not universally popular due to this and for picking players clearly without any ability or aptitude for league football, like Ben Seymour but given time he's moulded the club even more into his ethos and they eventually got promoted into L1, despite having to face an injury crisis and losing key players to other clubs.

The similarities with GM are there but GM isn't learning and doesn't appear to be able to motivate players or have any aptitude for tactics or astute in game management and decision making.

[Lesonthewest]

I'm not a fan at all of slagging off your own players in public. Leave it for the dressing room.

I'd try and unearth my earlier posts about our previous positive results this reason being INSPITE of McSheffrey's leadership - but whenever I've attempted to bring to light this fact, I've been abused by those who won't allow anything negative to be said about McSheffrey or the board.

The issues were set in motion when the board appointed McSheffrey as opposed to bringing in an experienced manager.

I hate saying I told you so, but....

Can't believe he called out George, he had absolutely no support, & no service from our wide players, of which neither of could beat an egg at the minute. Not good from the manager in my opinion.

[Panda]

I'm not a fan at all of slagging off your own players in public. Leave it for the dressing room.

I'd try and unearth my earlier posts about our previous positive results this reason being INSPITE of McSheffrey's leadership - but whenever I've attempted to bring to light this fact, I've been abused by those who won't allow anything negative to be said about McSheffrey or the board.

The issues were set in motion when the board appointed McSheffrey as opposed to bringing in an experienced manager.

I hate saying I told you so, but....

The board's failure to bring in an experienced manager after Wellens was a decision that got us relegated. The board's decision to not relieve GM of his duties with a few months of the season left that could have brought us the impetus needed to just scrape over the line was a decision that got us relegated. The board's failure to bring in an experienced manager during the summer will see us struggling in the league by Christmas. The board's failure to not sack GM and finally bring in an experienced manager by Christmas will see us lucky to end mid table.

GM is not going to resign and why should he but it should be becoming apparent to even the most fervent fans of the board and the manager that both are contributing to our decline on the field.

As for singling out Miller. Delusional from GM. Miller will make runs and chase down opponents. That's it. He won't bring down and lay off relentless aimless punts up field from the likes of Adam Long, nor will be able to link up with others when there is barely any players around him to link up with.

Miller does what he does and use him right and give him support and service and he'll score goals. GM doesn't know how to use him right because he continually fails to provide both for him.

[Lesonthewest]

But, GM doesn’t appear to be taking any responsibility for it, claiming it’s the players yet again. That’s the most worrying thing for me.

I agree with your opening paragraph and I said the very same thing in my comments about the Mansfield game - there’s a huge gap behind our ‘midfield’. The trouble is neither Clayton or Biggins are natural ‘sitters’, in fact Biggins lacks the discipline to stick to the task. We’ve needed a DM’er now for how long? Until that gets put right, then it’s going to be a slog this season.

The next problem is the 3 in front of the 2. He had Hurst & Molyneux stuck out hugging the touch line for most of the Mansfield game, when most of the pressure was coming through the middle! It’s not rocket science, Gary, it’s 2 v 3 and one of those 2 is 33 years old!

You mention the subs making us worse, we’ll, again, it was exactly like that v Mansfield. Now, who exactly is shirking responsibility here?

As for singling Miller out, when there’s so much more that’s wrong, is simply beyond a joke. Is he losing his marbles, I wonder?

We all hope he gets something sorted before Saturday, but if we’re playing 2 v 3 in midfield again, then GM should be on his final warning.

Agreed Alan, for him to single out Miller was bang out of order for me, should have been left in the dressing room. What on earth did he want him to do given the managers choice of isolating him up front with virtually little or no support, & service non existent. The 2 wide men Hurst & Mollyneux were awful  & I can't remember them beating their man & putting in a cross. McSheffrey needs to look at himself before singling out players. Our midfield was a joke.

[Sod This For a Laugh]

I look at last nights game and it reminds me of the Crewe game which was the final nail in RW coffin. A lifeless display. A couple more of these and I don’t see how GM keeps the job. Tommy Rowe looked peed off to be playing left back. Why Adam Clayton thought it would be a good idea to practically play as a sweeper is anyones guess and nobody knows what Tomlin is going to do next and I don’t mean that in good way.. These 3 are supposed to be our leaders out on the pitch.  I would struggle to give either of them more than a 4 out of 10 on last nights performance. People are right to be concerned about how we’ve played so far this season, we have been second best in every game bar Northampton and Stockport.

[Bessie Red]

After seeing in the flesh the way Barrow played last night, its a shame we didnt go for Pete Wild in the summer. His style of play was really good to watch, high press,rapid counter attacks, nearly always a forward pass, the complete opposite to how we played.

[Chris Black come back]

It’s telling that the managers who haven’t succeeded are those that had no style of football pinned on them. Dickov, Wellens, Ferguson, all was just a mush.

In different ways SOD, Saunders, Penney and McCann had very clear playing style. Like it or not, it was clear. It says a lot about a manager if either they don’t know their style or more importantly, can’t impose this on their players.

We’re drifting at present, neither forward or backwards. And we’re only not going backwards as the level is so low.

[ncRover]

After seeing in the flesh the way Barrow played last night, its a shame we didnt go for Pete Wild in the summer. His style of play was really good to watch, high press,rapid counter attacks, nearly always a forward pass, the complete opposite to how we played.

There will be another of his like in the lower leagues.

Graham Potter was managing a university team 12 years ago.

[pib]

It’s telling that the managers who haven’t succeeded are those that had no style of football pinned on them. Dickov, Wellens, Ferguson, all was just a mush.

In different ways SOD, Saunders, Penney and McCann had very clear playing style. Like it or not, it was clear. It says a lot about a manager if either they don’t know their style or more importantly, can’t impose this on their players.

We’re drifting at present, neither forward or backwards. And we’re only not going backwards as the level is so low.

Can't argue with that.

For me, we're approaching the point where we have to consider how much longer McSheffrey gets the "benefit of the doubt." Although not his biggest fan, I've largely been able to see the bigger picture (both last season and this) that he's perhaps had one hand tied behind his back so far in implementing a consistent style of football, and has needed to be given the chance to prove himself.

Last season there were obviously numerous mitigating factors that put GM on the back foot from the outset. A poor squad, in a desperate position, low on confidence and beset by injuries. Even so, I found myself scratching my head as to what he was trying to do more often than not. It was a mush, as you say. The alarm bells were there for me with some of the glaring tactical decisions that had to be corrected at half time in games, and although results were marginally better than under Wellens, I think luck played a big part in that, thinking especially about games like Sunderland and Lincoln away.

This season, we've obviously got to take into account that we've brought in a lot of new players, and we've still got injuries to some key men. Having said that, we're a level lower and should really by default look better. Early results were good but I still can't shake the concern that it was unsustainable playing like that and expecting to keep picking up results. It's at this stage of the season where I'd expect to see things starting to click into place and a style of play to be presenting itself, but it feels like we're no further forward in that sense, and now the results have started to dry up it does leave me questioning whether GM is capable of bringing us that coherence. Our new players are settled now, we're getting good players back from injury, and we've got options to change things round if needed, so excuses are running out. How we play over the next few weeks might give us a better picture. I'm not saying GM can't get us some good results this season (he already has) but I have this nagging feeling that perhaps somebody else could do better with this group of players.

[sedwardsdrfc]

Said last year when we stuck with him that it puts so much pressure on him to perform this season. Any half decent manager would have kept us up in the end the bottom of the division was that bad that anything other than complete negligence would have kept us up imo.

Think he's had a good summer signed decent players and been backed in 2 transfer windows now so no excuses. What is becoming clear is he's no SOD where we have to suffer some bad spells while the players get used to the demands that will eventually take us to another level. This is just bumbling through the games hoping we win.

Said it many time but such an air of Dickov about GM we could be stuck with him all season because like Dickov he'll get the odd win here and there to keep us fairly close. But that ingredient to push us to the next level and secure a promotion just doesn't look to be there.

Looking at our league position this talk will sound crazy but we have to be demanding this season and even if position wise it's ok on performances were more likely to drop places than gain them which at this stage is what matters

[Ronnie Dovers]

It’s telling that the managers who haven’t succeeded are those that had no style of football pinned on them. Dickov, Wellens, Ferguson, all was just a mush.

In different ways SOD, Saunders, Penney and McCann had very clear playing style. Like it or not, it was clear. It says a lot about a manager if either they don’t know their style or more importantly, can’t impose this on their players.

We’re drifting at present, neither forward or backwards. And we’re only not going backwards as the level is so low.

Can't argue with that.

For me, we're approaching the point where we have to consider how much longer McSheffrey gets the "benefit of the doubt." Although not his biggest fan, I've largely been able to see the bigger picture (both last season and this) that he's perhaps had one hand tied behind his back so far in implementing a consistent style of football, and has needed to be given the chance to prove himself.

Last season there were obviously numerous mitigating factors that put GM on the back foot from the outset. A poor squad, in a desperate position, low on confidence and beset by injuries. Even so, I found myself scratching my head as to what he was trying to do more often than not. It was a mush, as you say. The alarm bells were there for me with some of the glaring tactical decisions that had to be corrected at half time in games, and although results were marginally better than under Wellens, I think luck played a big part in that, thinking especially about games like Sunderland and Lincoln away.

This season, we've obviously got to take into account that we've brought in a lot of new players, and we've still got injuries to some key men. Having said that, we're a level lower and should really by default look better. Early results were good but I still can't shake the concern that it was unsustainable playing like that and expecting to keep picking up results. It's at this stage of the season where I'd expect to see things starting to click into place and a style of play to be presenting itself, but it feels like we're no further forward in that sense, and now the results have started to dry up it does leave me questioning whether GM is capable of bringing us that coherence. Our new players are settled now, we're getting good players back from injury, and we've got options to change things round if needed, so excuses are running out. How we play over the next few weeks might give us a better picture. I'm not saying GM can't get us some good results this season (he already has) but I have this nagging feeling that perhaps somebody else could do better with this group of players.

That sums up my feelings. He still has, and deserves, more time to get us playing, but as more injured players return and our squad increasingly looks like one of the top 5-6 in the league, he's gotta start getting consistent performances.

[jamesrover17]

If we were to get rid of GM I suspect there will be a lot more interest in the job of a top 7 league 2 team with decent players and a forward thinking mentality, who have lost 2 games all season than there was an injury riddled team that couldn't buy a win when Wellens left, I genuinely think there wasn't much interest in the job when GM got it, not saying that's the only reason he got it but I think its a big contributing factor.

[sedwardsdrfc]

I know it's early in the season and teams can fall away badly but if Barrow's manager can get them where they are I imagine he'd have us promoted comfortably. Don't wait for a CV from jobsite go get him if we like the look of his record/style.

We're big enough in this league to go and get a manager who is already delivering at another club.

Also i know he had a bit of toxicity about him but i reckon Wellens would have done well with our current squad. I know there was probably more to last season than what we see but can't help think Younger and injuries got him in a hole and he wasn't a good enough manager to turn it around.

That said if we gave Wellens 8 new signings and till the end of the season maybe we would have stayed up. The bar was very low. Anyway i was glad he went at the time thought we would get better but managed to get worse

[Panda]

On the subject of worrying.

I'm worried that the Barrow performance and result was supposed to be a reaction to the Mansfield shitfest.

I'm worried that today's result and performance was supposed to be a reaction to the Barrow shitshow.

I'm worried that there were similar occasions last season where we were promised reactions to similarly poor performances and defeats and got poor performances and defeats.

There is a pattern here.

[Sammy Chung was King]

Any new manager would be from within, take your pick from whoever is already at the club. That’s how we appoint managers. He can’t afford to bad a run he has no credit in the bank after last season’s relegation.

[Jonathan]

Any new manager would be from within, take your pick from whoever is already at the club. That’s how we appoint managers.

Absolutely right there Sammy, of all the permanent managers we’ve appointed since Dave Penney departed over 15 years ago a total of one has been from within. So yeah, that’s how we appoint managers isn’t it. Jeez.

[sedwardsdrfc]

Weirdly hope whoever we get as caretaker loses a few games early on. Nothing personal just don't want us to get into the phase where it becomes convenient to promote someone already at the club.

Unless no one else applied there is no way GM was the outstanding candidate. It was pure convenience and a good deal of blind faith.

We tried the same with Butler for a prolonged period which didn't work and made it awkward with Wellens coming in after Butler was clearly in for the job. We lost a good player and potential future manager in that situation.

Also under Butlers extended spell the form just continued to collapse which i think left a hangover around the club into Wellens tenure which is still present now. Of course this started with Moore but if we didn't give Butler such an extended probation and got a proper manager maybe by the end of that season the slide could have been halted

[Sammy Chung was King]

Any new manager would be from within, take your pick from whoever is already at the club. That’s how we appoint managers.

Absolutely right there Sammy, of all the permanent managers we’ve appointed since Dave Penney departed over 15 years ago a total of one has been from within. So yeah, that’s how we appoint managers isn’t it. Jeez.

Quite right Jonathan, Where will the next manager be appointed from outside the club or in? You know the answer it would either be Eyre, Coppinger or an under 12s manager.

I’m not saying let him go yet, but they can’t let us get too far away from the promotion race, before they have to make a decision on it.
I would rather he was a success and it’s just a blip. The optimism was there at the start of the season, a win or two and it’s back.

[Jonathan]

Any new manager would be from within, take your pick from whoever is already at the club. That’s how we appoint managers.

Absolutely right there Sammy, of all the permanent managers we’ve appointed since Dave Penney departed over 15 years ago a total of one has been from within. So yeah, that’s how we appoint managers isn’t it. Jeez.

Quite right Jonathan, Where will the next manager be appointed from outside the club or in? You know the answer it would either be Eyre, Coppinger or an under 12s manager.

You’re just being a bit silly with this. Rather like when you proclaimed that our summer signings were going to comprise of Andy Butler, Paul Green and Milan Lalkovic. I do understand the frustration and the need to let off steam, but it doesn’t help anyone when you’re just making stuff up. We don’t habitually appoint managers from within the current staff - this was the first time we’ve appointed a permanent manager from within in about 16 years. As I say I totally understand the frustration at the last three games, the last two in particular have been awful. But don’t start making things up and painting it as fact.