Brexit and the NHS

[SydneyRover]

So despite the conjecture the government has done it, it's a total non story. We also seem to forget what the remain camp said would happen with the funding if we left, but it's ok for them to have been wrong isn't it?

That's a breathtaking take you have there BFYP.

Yes of course they've done it. But they've done it in an environment where were are significantly poorer BECAUSE OF Brexit. They've done it by passing the bill to taxpayers and public servants who's wages are being crushed down.

And you just "Meh" it?

And what were the "remain camp" wrong about on the funding?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nhs-would-lose-10-billion-8136966

Interesting take there, 1000 nurses cut per trust and a cut in funding - I don't believe that happened did it?

There is a very valid point you make around the funding not coming from Brexit etc, there's plenty of evidence suggesting that is the case.  But to claim the NHS hasn't seen the funding isn't correct is it, nor have we seen the cuts speaches like the above claimed.  There were false narratives both ways and not only because they wanted to portray that (in some cases it was deliberate) but in some cases they interpreted it wrongly.

Look at the graph and the underfunding in and around 2016 when that claim was made and you can see why people would think the the NHS was going to lose more.

https://nhsfunding.info/nhs-crisis-making/#:~:text=The%20NHS%20has%20experienced%20a,since%20the%20NHS%20was%20established.

[SydneyRover]

NC, pud is an accountant with a whole team working for him I'm sure he would be able to tell how much brexit has made for the uk.

..... I'm sure he will be able to say what sort of contribution that has made to the NHS as he suggested in his comment above.

That's not an accountant's job, we leave that to the economists....

Well I'm not an accountant but I'll bet you can't show where brexit has been a net benefit to the UKs gdp, if you win I'll not mention brexit for a month, if I win you can finally admit brexit is a crock pud

And of course you have to ask yourself why on earth would the NHS need ₤350 million quid a week if it were fully funded under the party economic masters?

[i_ateallthepies]

NC, pud is an accountant with a whole team working for him I'm sure he would be able to tell how much brexit has made for the uk.

..... I'm sure he will be able to say what sort of contribution that has made to the NHS as he suggested in his comment above.

That's not an accountant's job, we leave that to the economists....

Well I'm not an accountant but I'll bet you can't show where brexit has been a net benefit to the UKs gdp, if you win I'll not mention brexit for a month, if I win you can finally admit brexit is a crock pud

And of course you have to ask yourself why on earth would the NHS need ₤350 million quid a week if it were fully funded under the party economic masters?

Great point, well made, Sydney.

[ncRover]

I see it's finally come into the open, Tory backbencher says in Parliament is it time to move NHS to an insurance based model. Trouble there is, the backbenchers usually say what the top Tories are thinking

I don't think its news that a Tory backbencher thinks that the NHS needs a root and branch reorganisation, the whole management and funding model needs looking at, if i remember rightly prior to 2010 there was plenty of mumblings then about the way the service was funded and managed.

What i've never understood is that the NHS as a national provider of basic healthcare has never gone out of its way to try to stem its major issues at source. It should be obvious to everyone that as a nation we don't look to be getting healthier, in fact if anything all metrics point in the opposite direction, for the first time in a very long period life expectancy has dropped and it looks like the next generation are going to have much worse outcomes because of it with all the chronic complications that come with an unhealthier population.

One example in my industry, staff used to have a very strict medical examinations, with periodical follow ups and target achievements. weight restrictions used to be applied rigorously, we had trainees who had to take 2 to 3 months off work and reduce their weight until they fell back into the required standard, it was that tough. Then what happened, as if overnight a great many of the standards and restrictions were removed. when staff go for the periodical medicals now the nurse does not even bat an eyelid if they're overweight, even in some cases very obese, its like you cannot comment or point out that someone is overweight for fear of being accused of fat shaming people? How is this a good thing in the longer term? they way social media and the MSM now push this narrative about being "inclusive" has created an attitude of live and let live, however any individual wants to do so, nothings now classed as wrong!!

Why aren't they shouting from the rooftops about promoting healthy lifestyles, reducing smoking and drinking, adapting far more healthier eating and pushing people to get out and exercise more, all actions that if really pursued properly would reduce the expectations on the NHS massively. Its almost as if they are loath to shout it too loud as it may reduce their workloads and budget requirements. I mean you only have to drop into any medical facility these days, the staff overall look like they need some serious discussion taking place with their health provider about their overall health!!

We've become a nation that accepts people for what they are not for what they can become, massive difference, whilst ever this attitude pervades then as a nation we will slowly sink to irrelevance. This has nothing to do with Brexit but a nation that's managing its decline, poorly.

Saw this earlier, no mention of the health benefits of being a healthy weight anywhere in this article.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-64164665

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sounds like the young lab assistant sent to the stores for a Long Stand.

[danumdon]

I see it's finally come into the open, Tory backbencher says in Parliament is it time to move NHS to an insurance based model. Trouble there is, the backbenchers usually say what the top Tories are thinking

I don't think its news that a Tory backbencher thinks that the NHS needs a root and branch reorganisation, the whole management and funding model needs looking at, if i remember rightly prior to 2010 there was plenty of mumblings then about the way the service was funded and managed.

What i've never understood is that the NHS as a national provider of basic healthcare has never gone out of its way to try to stem its major issues at source. It should be obvious to everyone that as a nation we don't look to be getting healthier, in fact if anything all metrics point in the opposite direction, for the first time in a very long period life expectancy has dropped and it looks like the next generation are going to have much worse outcomes because of it with all the chronic complications that come with an unhealthier population.

One example in my industry, staff used to have a very strict medical examinations, with periodical follow ups and target achievements. weight restrictions used to be applied rigorously, we had trainees who had to take 2 to 3 months off work and reduce their weight until they fell back into the required standard, it was that tough. Then what happened, as if overnight a great many of the standards and restrictions were removed. when staff go for the periodical medicals now the nurse does not even bat an eyelid if they're overweight, even in some cases very obese, its like you cannot comment or point out that someone is overweight for fear of being accused of fat shaming people? How is this a good thing in the longer term? they way social media and the MSM now push this narrative about being "inclusive" has created an attitude of live and let live, however any individual wants to do so, nothings now classed as wrong!!

Why aren't they shouting from the rooftops about promoting healthy lifestyles, reducing smoking and drinking, adapting far more healthier eating and pushing people to get out and exercise more, all actions that if really pursued properly would reduce the expectations on the NHS massively. Its almost as if they are loath to shout it too loud as it may reduce their workloads and budget requirements. I mean you only have to drop into any medical facility these days, the staff overall look like they need some serious discussion taking place with their health provider about their overall health!!

We've become a nation that accepts people for what they are not for what they can become, massive difference, whilst ever this attitude pervades then as a nation we will slowly sink to irrelevance. This has nothing to do with Brexit but a nation that's managing its decline, poorly.

Saw this earlier, no mention of the health benefits of being a healthy weight anywhere in this article.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-64164665

The irony in this one is strong.

You have been influenced by "an influencer" its exactly what the post was about.

20years ago before the likes of this appeared was there any of this nonsense around, have her sort helped to make it OK to be unfit and unhealthy?

Because regardless to what anyone else says here why don't you ask people who have been in this situation as to what they feel about it, i believe there is an active thread of a similar nature, just ask the OP his opinion.

[SydneyRover]

Just a point on this healthy lifestyle stuff your first call should be with your GP and annual check-ups. If you get a thorough once over your doctor should and in most cases I would think tell you what you need to know. No one can make you go of course to see your doctor or listen to the advice but if you can't get an appt or afford it then write to your MP.

[ncRover]

I see it's finally come into the open, Tory backbencher says in Parliament is it time to move NHS to an insurance based model. Trouble there is, the backbenchers usually say what the top Tories are thinking

I don't think its news that a Tory backbencher thinks that the NHS needs a root and branch reorganisation, the whole management and funding model needs looking at, if i remember rightly prior to 2010 there was plenty of mumblings then about the way the service was funded and managed.

What i've never understood is that the NHS as a national provider of basic healthcare has never gone out of its way to try to stem its major issues at source. It should be obvious to everyone that as a nation we don't look to be getting healthier, in fact if anything all metrics point in the opposite direction, for the first time in a very long period life expectancy has dropped and it looks like the next generation are going to have much worse outcomes because of it with all the chronic complications that come with an unhealthier population.

One example in my industry, staff used to have a very strict medical examinations, with periodical follow ups and target achievements. weight restrictions used to be applied rigorously, we had trainees who had to take 2 to 3 months off work and reduce their weight until they fell back into the required standard, it was that tough. Then what happened, as if overnight a great many of the standards and restrictions were removed. when staff go for the periodical medicals now the nurse does not even bat an eyelid if they're overweight, even in some cases very obese, its like you cannot comment or point out that someone is overweight for fear of being accused of fat shaming people? How is this a good thing in the longer term? they way social media and the MSM now push this narrative about being "inclusive" has created an attitude of live and let live, however any individual wants to do so, nothings now classed as wrong!!

Why aren't they shouting from the rooftops about promoting healthy lifestyles, reducing smoking and drinking, adapting far more healthier eating and pushing people to get out and exercise more, all actions that if really pursued properly would reduce the expectations on the NHS massively. Its almost as if they are loath to shout it too loud as it may reduce their workloads and budget requirements. I mean you only have to drop into any medical facility these days, the staff overall look like they need some serious discussion taking place with their health provider about their overall health!!

We've become a nation that accepts people for what they are not for what they can become, massive difference, whilst ever this attitude pervades then as a nation we will slowly sink to irrelevance. This has nothing to do with Brexit but a nation that's managing its decline, poorly.

Saw this earlier, no mention of the health benefits of being a healthy weight anywhere in this article.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-64164665

The irony in this one is strong.

You have been influenced by "an influencer" its exactly what the post was about.

20years ago before the likes of this appeared was there any of this nonsense around, have her sort helped to make it OK to be unfit and unhealthy?

Because regardless to what anyone else says here why don't you ask people who have been in this situation as to what they feel about it, i believe there is an active thread of a similar nature, just ask the OP his opinion.

Just making sure you get that I was supporting your broader point with this example. I can’t quite tell with your reply!

The dominant culture is becoming one of deflecting responsibility and mental weakness. I don’t think many great societies were built on that.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Nc.

You were asking a few days ago, I think, what I thought about social insurance models for healthcare like they have in many European countries.

While I was mulling it over, one of the very best people out[1] there on simplifying and explaining economics issues has done the thinking for me.

This is clear and unambiguous. I can't recommend it too highly.

https://longandvariable.substack.com/p/we-already-have-a-social-insurance


[1] Tony Yates is an ex- Prof of Economics, and used to be a senior economist at the BoE. He's got a genius-like ability to explain stuff in ways that anyone who is interested can understand. And he's far from being someone on the far left of politics.

[SydneyRover]

It is a good read thanks billy

[SydneyRover]

I know you like polls Selby .............

''Support for leaving EU has fallen significantly across bloc since Brexit
People less likely to vote leave in every EU member state for which data was available than in 2016-17, survey finds''

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/12/support-for-leaving-eu-has-fallen-significantly-across-bloc-since-brexit

solidarity bro

[ncRover]

Nc.

You were asking a few days ago, I think, what I thought about social insurance models for healthcare like they have in many European countries.

While I was mulling it over, one of the very best people out[1] there on simplifying and explaining economics issues has done the thinking for me.

This is clear and unambiguous. I can't recommend it too highly.

https://longandvariable.substack.com/p/we-already-have-a-social-insurance


[1] Tony Yates is an ex- Prof of Economics, and used to be a senior economist at the BoE. He's got a genius-like ability to explain stuff in ways that anyone who is interested can understand. And he's far from being someone on the far left of politics.

Thank you

[BillyStubbsTears]

And here we go again.

https://mobile.twitter.com/thetimes/status/1614261593465823232

Yes. Of course they should. By paying higher taxes.

[selby]

  Should those who have contributed absolutely nothing at all get free medical treatment on the NHS?

[ravenrover]

Who and why have they.not contributed?

[drfchound]

And here we go again.

https://mobile.twitter.com/thetimes/status/1614261593465823232

Yes. Of course they should. By paying higher taxes.

Higher earners do pay more in taxes don’t they.
What would you suggest determines whether some people should pay for NHS treatment.

[ravenrover]

  Should those who have contributed absolutely nothing at all get free medical treatment on the NHS?

C'mon Selby don't be shy who and why?

[roverstillidie91]

This is an interesting watch on the impact of Brexit

https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1615311039586869248?s=20&t=G-VNSMnxtGmb-kotcDsAzw

[wilts rover]

  Should those who have contributed absolutely nothing at all get free medical treatment on the NHS?

Yes. People born with or who have developed physical and/or mental illnesses are not to blame for their needs. Why should they be denied medical assistance for the rest of their lives?

And what sort of person would want to deny medical treatment to the most vulernable in society? Answer to Fascist Contest, c/o Viking Forum...

[ravenrover]

I see Greasy Piglet is claiming a new hospital for Hillingdon has been agreed by Hillingdon Council, shame it is only a re vamp of the existing hospital

[bobjimwilly]

So despite the conjecture the government has done it, it's a total non story. We also seem to forget what the remain camp said would happen with the funding if we left, but it's ok for them to have been wrong isn't it?

That's a breathtaking take you have there BFYP.

Yes of course they've done it. But they've done it in an environment where were are significantly poorer BECAUSE OF Brexit. They've done it by passing the bill to taxpayers and public servants who's wages are being crushed down.

And you just "Meh" it?

And what were the "remain camp" wrong about on the funding?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nhs-would-lose-10-billion-8136966

Interesting take there, 1000 nurses cut per trust and a cut in funding - I don't believe that happened did it?

There is a very valid point you make around the funding not coming from Brexit etc, there's plenty of evidence suggesting that is the case.  But to claim the NHS hasn't seen the funding isn't correct is it, nor have we seen the cuts speaches like the above claimed.  There were false narratives both ways and not only because they wanted to portray that (in some cases it was deliberate) but in some cases they interpreted it wrongly.

I honeslty despair that anyone is trying to defend Brexit. With most people I know who voted to leave it seems they would rather protect their ego than admit they were conned by the elite who simply wanted to protect their money stashed overseas.

There's still not one advantage of Brexit that has been recognised, at least with my family or anyone I know.

[i_ateallthepies]

So despite the conjecture the government has done it, it's a total non story. We also seem to forget what the remain camp said would happen with the funding if we left, but it's ok for them to have been wrong isn't it?

That's a breathtaking take you have there BFYP.

Yes of course they've done it. But they've done it in an environment where were are significantly poorer BECAUSE OF Brexit. They've done it by passing the bill to taxpayers and public servants who's wages are being crushed down.

And you just "Meh" it?

And what were the "remain camp" wrong about on the funding?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nhs-would-lose-10-billion-8136966

Interesting take there, 1000 nurses cut per trust and a cut in funding - I don't believe that happened did it?

There is a very valid point you make around the funding not coming from Brexit etc, there's plenty of evidence suggesting that is the case.  But to claim the NHS hasn't seen the funding isn't correct is it, nor have we seen the cuts speaches like the above claimed.  There were false narratives both ways and not only because they wanted to portray that (in some cases it was deliberate) but in some cases they interpreted it wrongly.

I honeslty despair that anyone is trying to defend Brexit. With most people I know who voted to leave it seems they would rather protect their ego than admit they were conned by the elite who simply wanted to protect their money stashed overseas.

There's still not one advantage of Brexit that has been recognised, at least with my family or anyone I know.

 

[roverstillidie91]

  Should those who have contributed absolutely nothing at all get free medical treatment on the NHS?

Yes. People born with or who have developed physical and/or mental illnesses are not to blame for their needs. Why should they be denied medical assistance for the rest of their lives?

And what sort of person would want to deny medical treatment to the most vulernable in society? Answer to Fascist Contest, c/o Viking Forum...

My 2 week old daughter went blue and when we phoned for an ambulance they wouldn't send one out. Turned out she has got covid then had to be resuscitated less than 12 hours later. It was the same again when she went in again last Friday went blue around the mouth all they suggested was is a 90 minute call back. I literally raced to the hospital instead and she had a temperature of 38.2 and an infection. She was blue on arrival.

My grandad was choking and couldn't breathe and when my Grandma phoned for an ambulance they said it wasn't an emergency. Sadly he isn't here anymore

What a mess the NHS is in. However many thousands of vacancies.


Privatisation here we come.

I'm not sure if I have enough faith in an emergency just to drive to hospital rather than wait for an ambulance.

In this day and age in the 5th richest country I swear you must have to be nearing death to get an ambulance.

[SydneyRover]

Sorry for your loss 91,

never let them rewrite history about the unmitigated disaster that is brexit

[roverstillidie91]

Sorry for your loss 91,

never let them rewrite history about the unmitigated disaster that is brexit

this country is in such a mess, I'd say I only live here because I was born here.

Thank you for your comments SydneyRover, it was unfortunately I believe a consequence of covid when he got ill due to lung cancer, just couldn't get an appointment at a GP and when he finally saw someone. Too little too late.

Clearly there will be a Cancer pandemic with the NHS backlogs.

I'd never vote Conservative ever, ruining this great country but the stuff you read on Twitter is unbelievable.

[ncRover]

https://britain.unherd.com/

Wow, only 3 constituencies don’t believe that brexit was a mistake.

Strange that they are all in Lincolnshire.

[Glyn_Wigley]

https://britain.unherd.com/

Wow, only 3 constituencies don’t believe that brexit was a mistake.

Strange that they are all in Lincolnshire.

No it isn't.

[ncRover]

https://britain.unherd.com/

Wow, only 3 constituencies don’t believe that brexit was a mistake.

Strange that they are all in Lincolnshire.

No it isn't.

  why are they so staunch there?

[SydneyRover]

https://britain.unherd.com/

Wow, only 3 constituencies don’t believe that brexit was a mistake.

Strange that they are all in Lincolnshire.

Admitting ones mistake in a blind poll is a bit different to admitting it on a fourth tier football forum aye?