Does the Chairman need to go?

[Chris Black come back]

We are where we are due to

1) Appointing Andy Butler as manager when DM left. No disrespect to
AB of course. Fantastic servant and role model as player.
But he had no serious credentials to take over a team with promotion aspirations. We needed a manager preferably with a promotion on his CV who knew how to get a team promoted.
That was a massive error and started our downward spiral.

We then appointed Richie Wellens and personally I was happy with that as I think most people were. He has a winning mentality. Both as a player and also as a manager. He also had a league 2 promotion on his CV and promotions as a player on his CV.
Now I don’t know details of the budget he had but the recruitment was disastrous.
We were told the budget was mid table. The goal was to achieve that position.
Results started poorly and continued in that vein. We didn’t have a goalscorer or anyone resembling one.
Wellens was sacked at end of Nov.

We then appointed another novice in GM who could not arrest the slide and we were duly relegated in 22nd place.

GM was kept on as manager and Copps yet another novice was appointed as HoF
The recruitment seemed reasonable but we lacked the presence of physicality in the recruitment. Andrew excepted but he was only 20 yrs old with no 1st team experience. ( Then got injured )
We started 22/23 very well results wise although performances were far from convincing.
We then went into a sequence of results and performances which were quite unbelievably poor for the level we were playing at.
Barrow, Hartlepool & Carlisle all away being the worst.
After GM’s post match interview at Carlisle, it was obvious the only thing that could be done was relieve him of his duties. That was done.

Then we appoint yet another rookie manager that Copps had identified as a top coach. He had though only 9 games under his belt as a manager and in those 9 games i think only 1 maybe 2 were wins.

So what is the common denominator?
Rookie Managers and some really poor recruitment.

Blunt had presumably the final say in appointing Butler, Wellens & McSheffrey so he is responsible for those mistakes.
He has the final say on the budget set also. If our budget was mid table in 21/22 then Wellens is culpable for spending most of it on dross.
If the budget was bottom 4 or even bottom 6/7 then we were always likely to be sailing against the wind.
Wellens never said that the budget was inadequate, in fact he said he would be aiming for the play off’s. A great attitude. Winning mentality again.

The Butler appointment was maybe with a sympathetic wind, something you could make a case for. It was so late in the season that getting someone new in to see us over the line might have caused more disruption than benefit. It clearly didn’t work though. 

Wellens was a total mystery. He’s obviously a decent manager but it started badly and got worse. Terrible football and terrible recruitment. There probably was some budget pressure but he went early on signings so must have had an idea what he wanted. Likewise Aiden O’Brien and Will Grigg fell through, but would not have been cheap. So I don’t buy altogether him being starved of cash. He didn’t buy at all well and the football was appalling.

Then McSheffrey. An absolutely disastrous decision. Not since that SAS guy left the voicemail message has a worse decision been made at the club. What on earth were they thinking. Felt sorry for him. Whoever signed that off needs putting before a jury.

Schofield clearly not great so far but you can see some semblance of logic behind him. Sadly performances, results and probably recruitment have not been great and we are getting worse rather than better.

[Campsall rover]

We are where we are due to

1) Appointing Andy Butler as manager when DM left. No disrespect to
AB of course. Fantastic servant and role model as player.
But he had no serious credentials to take over a team with promotion aspirations. We needed a manager preferably with a promotion on his CV who knew how to get a team promoted.
That was a massive error and started our downward spiral.

We then appointed Richie Wellens and personally I was happy with that as I think most people were. He has a winning mentality. Both as a player and also as a manager. He also had a league 2 promotion on his CV and promotions as a player on his CV.
Now I don’t know details of the budget he had but the recruitment was disastrous.
We were told the budget was mid table. The goal was to achieve that position.
Results started poorly and continued in that vein. We didn’t have a goalscorer or anyone resembling one.
Wellens was sacked at end of Nov.

We then appointed another novice in GM who could not arrest the slide and we were duly relegated in 22nd place.

GM was kept on as manager and Copps yet another novice was appointed as HoF
The recruitment seemed reasonable but we lacked the presence of physicality in the recruitment. Andrew excepted but he was only 20 yrs old with no 1st team experience. ( Then got injured )
We started 22/23 very well results wise although performances were far from convincing.
We then went into a sequence of results and performances which were quite unbelievably poor for the level we were playing at.
Barrow, Hartlepool & Carlisle all away being the worst.
After GM’s post match interview at Carlisle, it was obvious the only thing that could be done was relieve him of his duties. That was done.

Then we appoint yet another rookie manager that Copps had identified as a top coach. He had though only 9 games under his belt as a manager and in those 9 games i think only 1 maybe 2 were wins.

So what is the common denominator?
Rookie Managers and some really poor recruitment.

Blunt had presumably the final say in appointing Butler, Wellens & McSheffrey so he is responsible for those mistakes.
He has the final say on the budget set also. If our budget was mid table in 21/22 then Wellens is culpable for spending most of it on dross.
If the budget was bottom 4 or even bottom 6/7 then we were always likely to be sailing against the wind.
Wellens never said that the budget was inadequate, in fact he said he would be aiming for the play off’s. A great attitude. Winning mentality again.

The Butler appointment was maybe with a sympathetic wind, something you could make a case for. It was so late in the season that getting someone new in to see us over the line might have caused more disruption than benefit. It clearly didn’t work though. 

Wellens was a total mystery. He’s obviously a decent manager but it started badly and got worse. Terrible football and terrible recruitment. There probably was some budget pressure but he went early on signings so must have had an idea what he wanted. Likewise Aiden O’Brien and Will Grigg fell through, but would not have been cheap. So I don’t buy altogether him being starved of cash. He didn’t buy at all well and the football was appalling.

Then McSheffrey. An absolutely disastrous decision. Not since that SAS guy left the voicemail message has a worse decision been made at the club. What on earth were they thinking. Felt sorry for him. Whoever signed that off needs putting before a jury.

Schofield clearly not great so far but you can see some semblance of logic behind him. Sadly performances, results and probably recruitment have not been great and we are getting worse rather than better.

Don’t know what happened there. Your reply to my post. It’s not my full post.  post reply no 27

[mutleyrover]

Yes the Chairman needs to go. Until that happens nothing will improve.

[silent majority]

Regardless of any of it someone has to be accountable for the constant failings.  Just what are they going to do to fix things as more of the same just isn't going to work is it?

The buck stops with the Chairman surely?

The buck stops with the owner surely?

In terms of decision making that we’ve seen over the last few seasons then it’s the Chair who shoulders that.

But in this case the owner and Chair is the same person so your point is superfluous.

[mutleyrover]

Is it not possible for a new Chair to be appointed and the current Chair accepts their failures as Chair and remains as board member, shareholder, owner?

[EasyforDennis]

Regardless of any of it someone has to be accountable for the constant failings.  Just what are they going to do to fix things as more of the same just isn't going to work is it?

The buck stops with the Chairman surely?

The buck stops with the owner surely?

In terms of decision making that we’ve seen over the last few seasons then it’s the Chair who shoulders that.

But in this case the owner and Chair is the same person so your point is superfluous.

I think you are being a little disingenuous in suggesting David Blunt is the owner when we all know Terry Brammall is "the real owner"
Who of the 3 shareholders has put any significant amounts of money into the club? I will give you a clue. It isn't David Blunt or Gavin Baldwin!!

[sedwardsdrfc]

So we’re stuck with him till someone buys him out? I’d hope he could be replaced as chairman while maintaining whatever shareholding he has.

Very awkward situation at the top with him and TB obviously been quite close.

[silent majority]

Regardless of any of it someone has to be accountable for the constant failings.  Just what are they going to do to fix things as more of the same just isn't going to work is it?

The buck stops with the Chairman surely?

The buck stops with the owner surely?

In terms of decision making that we’ve seen over the last few seasons then it’s the Chair who shoulders that.

But in this case the owner and Chair is the same person so your point is superfluous.

I think you are being a little disingenuous in suggesting David Blunt is the owner when we all know Terry Brammall is "the real owner"
Who of the 3 shareholders has put any significant amounts of money into the club? I will give you a clue. It isn't David Blunt or Gavin Baldwin!!

I didn’t suggest otherwise, but the truth is (and you can guarantee I know much more  about this than you do, despite the clues you’re giving me) that  DB is as much an owner of the club as TB is. He may have sunk many millions of his money into the club but DB is Chair and is also an equivalent owner.

[silent majority]

So we’re stuck with him till someone buys him out? I’d hope he could be replaced as chairman while maintaining whatever shareholding he has.

Very awkward situation at the top with him and TB obviously been quite close.

For the time being yes.

At the time I wanted Andy Watson to step up and be Chair, I thought he would have been an excellent choice but it wasn’t to be.

[silent majority]

Is it not possible for a new Chair to be appointed and the current Chair accepts their failures as Chair and remains as board member, shareholder, owner?

Yes, but who would that be?

[sedwardsdrfc]

So we’re stuck with him till someone buys him out? I’d hope he could be replaced as chairman while maintaining whatever shareholding he has.

Very awkward situation at the top with him and TB obviously been quite close.

For the time being yes.

At the time I wanted Andy Watson to step up and be Chair, I thought he would have been an excellent choice but it wasn’t to be.

That’s gutting I know the Watson family did so much for the club. Do we know if Blunt is willing to sell or looking too?

One thing about us now I can’t get my head around is why we aren’t open about looking to sell the club on. 100% it has to be the the right people but we aren’t going anywhere with this ownership model.

It’s got us on a good financial footing but to move on we need a change. Do we know if anyone is standing in the way of this as any sale would need all parties to be on the same boat.

That’s the only reason I can think of for us not to at least be open about it.

[sedwardsdrfc]

So we’re stuck with him till someone buys him out? I’d hope he could be replaced as chairman while maintaining whatever shareholding he has.

Very awkward situation at the top with him and TB obviously been quite close.

For the time being yes.

At the time I wanted Andy Watson to step up and be Chair, I thought he would have been an excellent choice but it wasn’t to be.

That’s gutting I know the Watson family did so much for the club. Do we know if Blunt is willing to sell or looking too?

One thing about us now I can’t get my head around is why we aren’t open about looking to sell the club on. 100% it has to be the the right people but we aren’t going anywhere with this ownership model.

It’s got us on a good financial footing but to move on we need a change. Do we know if anyone is standing in the way of this as any sale would need all parties to be on the same boat.

That’s the only reason I can think of for us not to at least be open about it.

Ignore this seen post on another thread saying they’ll sell if offered.

Think this needs publicising not so much to attract investors which isn’t straightforward but for us fans. I have hope that if we sell the club can get itself together but without it there isn’t much hope of improvement.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Regardless of any of it someone has to be accountable for the constant failings.  Just what are they going to do to fix things as more of the same just isn't going to work is it?

The buck stops with the Chairman surely?

It feels that way.

The more things go backwards the more it's hard to disagree with the vocal grumbles from fans at games.  I've tended to think at game chants etc are unhelpful, but nothing else is making a difference. I'm not convinced that will either and I'm not about to start joining in, but I don't blame them.

When discussing it with friends and those I see weekly at home games I still have the same conclusion.  Why own a football club without intending to compete as high as possible or for it to be fun? It's pointless.

[silent majority]

So we’re stuck with him till someone buys him out? I’d hope he could be replaced as chairman while maintaining whatever shareholding he has.

Very awkward situation at the top with him and TB obviously been quite close.

For the time being yes.

At the time I wanted Andy Watson to step up and be Chair, I thought he would have been an excellent choice but it wasn’t to be.

That’s gutting I know the Watson family did so much for the club. Do we know if Blunt is willing to sell or looking too?

One thing about us now I can’t get my head around is why we aren’t open about looking to sell the club on. 100% it has to be the the right people but we aren’t going anywhere with this ownership model.

It’s got us on a good financial footing but to move on we need a change. Do we know if anyone is standing in the way of this as any sale would need all parties to be on the same boat.

That’s the only reason I can think of for us not to at least be open about it.

From previous discussions I would say that it’s always been a case of everybody having to be in agreement.

The thing is the club has always been for sale, or at least they have always been willing to listen to any reasonable offers. But despite interest nothing has ever got to due diligence, or even formal talks, apart from JR and Sequentia which of course failed due diligence.

[NickDRFC]

Terry Bramall has done a great deal for the club and hopefully what’s happening now won’t tarnish his legacy, but gifting* an equal holding in the club to two people who haven’t put money in which seemingly means that three people need to agree to any sale doesn’t seem like a good decision to me.

*I’m happy for anyone to suggest this didn’t happen but that’s certainly how it appears

[WantleyDragon]

Terry Bramall has done a great deal for the club and hopefully what’s happening now won’t tarnish his legacy, but gifting* an equal holding in the club to two people who haven’t put money in which seemingly means that three people need to agree to any sale doesn’t seem like a good decision to me.

*I’m happy for anyone to suggest this didn’t happen but that’s certainly how it appears

It will be interesting to see how much blunt and Baldwin walk away with, when the club is eventually sold.

[Donnywolf]

In my opinion, YES, he’s the person that ultimatly gives the nod on player recruitment based on finance, he’s running the club down, it’s time to go, we just can’t stomach this decline anymore, it’s becoming terminal and possibly irreversible, something has to give, start at the top, and then recruit an experienced head coach, not a novice with 9 senior games on his CV

Yes ... If 1000 plus of us go , he should too to see what we are enduring

[silent majority]

Terry Bramall has done a great deal for the club and hopefully what’s happening now won’t tarnish his legacy, but gifting* an equal holding in the club to two people who haven’t put money in which seemingly means that three people need to agree to any sale doesn’t seem like a good decision to me.

*I’m happy for anyone to suggest this didn’t happen but that’s certainly how it appears

It will be interesting to see how much blunt and Baldwin walk away with, when the club is eventually sold.

I wouldn’t be holding my breath on that one.

[silent majority]

Terry Bramall has done a great deal for the club and hopefully what’s happening now won’t tarnish his legacy, but gifting* an equal holding in the club to two people who haven’t put money in which seemingly means that three people need to agree to any sale doesn’t seem like a good decision to me.

*I’m happy for anyone to suggest this didn’t happen but that’s certainly how it appears

That’s not how it happened. The deal is far more complicated than that.

[i_ateallthepies]

I'm not sure the ownership per se is the problem it is the decision-making.  If the playing budget is genuinely good enough to be competitive as we are constantly assured it is then surely what is wrong is the capability or policies of those in key positions.
Whatever is wrong it is clearly at the hands of those individuals and the decision-makers at the club need finally to take it seriously and put things right.

[EasyforDennis]

I would love to know how the three "owners" see the future of our club.
Are their priorities.
A. To run club Doncaster as a profitable company?
B. To have Doncaster Rovers as a sustainable operation?
C. To be in a position where they don't have to put any money in?  ( I haven't said "more money" in as it seems from the figures quoted on here recently that only one owner has?
D. To invest in attempting to achieve promotion to League 1.

How do you think they would prioritise those 4 objectives.

[Bessie Red]

C, B, A, D. What it should be is D, A, B, C!!

[WantleyDragon]

Terry Bramall has done a great deal for the club and hopefully what’s happening now won’t tarnish his legacy, but gifting* an equal holding in the club to two people who haven’t put money in which seemingly means that three people need to agree to any sale doesn’t seem like a good decision to me.

*I’m happy for anyone to suggest this didn’t happen but that’s certainly how it appears

It will be interesting to see how much blunt and Baldwin walk away with, when the club is eventually sold.

I wouldn’t be holding my breath on that one.

Is that because there's a clause saying they won't get anything ?

Brammall did say they won't be giving the club away at the meet the owners meeting

[since-1969]

The club is by many standards well run , but the politics of trying build a self sustaining club that  requires 2-3-or more £million to run and on low attendances and that  is still the effecting player recruitment. No matter who sits in the Chair the running of the club will still needs a pragmatic person with very thick skin . Clearly the board hasn’t got a bottomless pit of cash and using the budget with a grace of surgeon so not to effect the FairPlay rules must be depressing when coming under pressures each we loose a game . The basic facts are , is that we need a REAL manager who has the experience to connect to the players and and can get his core tactics played on the pitch . The players at present seem more hit and hope rather than knowledge based ! In other word Schofield is an amateur even at this Level !!