Formation

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hand up from me. I'm no expert on football formations. But one crystal clear thing from the first 4 games is that McCann is going to have his work cut out making his preferred 4-3-3 work with this set of players.

Seems to me that 4-3-3 works when you have wider attackers who can dominate defences and put them on the back foot, and energetic midfielders who can cover the large spaces that this formation produces.

We had that in 18/19. Wilks and Coppinger with Blair, Sadlier and May as options meant we were often able to stretch and pressurise defences. Some very raw signs from Sotona apart, I don't see us having anything like the sort of quality in those positions this year to regularly dominate defences.

Behind them in 18/19, we had Whiteman, Crawford, Rowe when fit, Kane making the most of the space this formation produces, etc. I'm seeing nothing remotely of that standard from this group, even allowing for the drop in level. We look desperately lacking in energy and ability in that area.

Which means we are regularly going to be dealing with the opposition having the initiative. And that puts pressure on our low density midfield which to date hasn't shown anything like the athleticism required to make that formation work. Yesterday was really quite embarrassing,  with us regularly ceding 10 yards of space to spare players in midfield and three times allowing a player to advance 60-70 yards from box to box with the ball without anything remotely resembling pressure.

It MIGHT click. The wide attackers might be able to push defences back by providing a constant threat. The midfield might find an extra two yards of pace and energy to cover gaps and pressurise the opposition.

But would anyone put money on that given what we've seen?

Seems to me we have a crisis that means rethinking our entire approach. We have conceded 8 goals in three games  because of this disconnect between how our formation should work, and the ability of the players to make it work.(*)

I'd suggest we go cautious and flood the midfield. Drop the wide attacker idea. Go 3-5-1-1 with two full backs taking the wing back positions. Start off denying space and time to the opposition and build from there.

Am I missing something obvious?


(*) I wouldn't mind so much if we were conceding through reckless, buccaneers attacking play that left us vulnerable to a counter attack. But that's not the problem. We are conceding because we are giving opponents so much time and space and we are simply not set up to make it hard for them.

[roversdude]

Can’t argue with any of that really. Feel a bit for Maxwell as him and Hurst seem to have started to get a good understanding last season before one or the other was injured.

[drfcsteve]

I’m no tactical expert either but a successful midfield 3 usually tends to have a pivot with two other midfielders who understand each others play. The full backs and wide attacking players also need to support (or in some cases the “false 9” drops in to midfield to support).

Our midfield consists of either inexperience, players who’ve shown they’re not good enough, or players whose legs have gone.

Bailey may well be able to play the pivot role but he’s learning and isn’t being supported by those around him.

In terms of support from the front 3, that seems non-existent. That’s not a jab at Ironside as clearly he’s expected to stay up top not drop deep, but the other wide attacking players are not pulling their weight.

Where does this leave us, who knows, but I agree with the current personnel I can’t see how 4-3-3 works.

[Chris Black come back]

Beneath all this, and again it could be total b*llocks, but our players look literally half the build of their opponents. Mansfield possibly an extreme case but they were all stacked and we have lads who look like they’ll go drifting up over East Stand if the wind whips in with any pace.

[Branton Red]

I'd suggest wingers are a luxury we're not good enough to indulge with at the moment.

So far we appear completely incapable of competing in midfield in terms of keeping possession.

Things may change as the players gel more and we play weaker teams than Mansfield and Notts (er teams like Harrogate and Newport maybe  )

4-4-2. But with a very narrow 4 in the midfield. Full backs providing the width. Get the ball up to Ironside and Faal up top with a midfielder (Broadbent/Biggins) breaking forward to support.

Back to basics. Keeping organised and keeping things tight off the ball. At least until we gain a bit of confidence.

[Alan Southstand]

‘Flood the midfield’…….with what? Or, with who?

We havn’t a midfield with any combination of the 6 we have on our books!

[drfcsteve]

Let’s look at what we know so far, clearly the current centre back pairing isn’t working and we need to stop shipping goals. If Wood apparently played as a back 3 at Rotherham in the Championship then we might as well try that.

We have an abundance of full backs (when fit) that can be utilised so we either have a back 5 when defending or a midfield 5 when attacking.

That leaves 2 up top, Ironside plus one other to support him.

It might not be ideally how Grant wants to play but we’ve got to do something to start grinding out clean sheets and build from there.

The only problem is where to fit in the abundance of wingers we’ve got, but let’s be honest none of them so far have showed they need to be guaranteed starters.

[ncRover]

Agree with you here Billy. I think Grant played 3-5-2 at times at Hull?

It’s a formation that is popular at this level.

Nixon would make a good wing back and we know Maxwell is better as a wing back already.

Roberts or Deji could even play one of the wide roles in a 3-5-2 if the balance in other areas is right because they like to hug the touchlines anyway.

I think Ironside and Faal both need each other. Miller needs a partner when he’s back too.

One positive - Everton look in disarray too!

[Nudga]

For me the match has to start with a 4-1-3-2. This gives you equal amount of defensive /attacking players in each half.

Even in a 4-3-3 the centre forward can be isolated and has to get through a lot of work on his own.
I'm a big fan of a striker partnership, Ironside/Faal at the moment.

Either play with a CDM , maybe Broadbent or a bit of a destroyer in Faulkner.

If and when you have a firm grip on the game then you may go with a 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 to bring on your wide men to stretch oppo some more.

As said above, 4-3-3 requires a top quality midfield three and we don't have that yet.

I will put my house on broadbent being a rolls Royce player in two seasons, he just needs time and patience, he's not quite ready yet to go up against 27 year old lg1 and lg2 experienced shithouses.

GM recruitment doesn't look great at the moment.

Sterry, injured a lot last season, coincidence that he's injured again?

Wood, played in back 3 and gone to a back four, he's now being exposed.

Ironside, for me has been played wrong, similar to Wood. Needs to be in a front two.

Lawler, half decent lg2 goalkeeper but not a commanding keeper you need in lg2 that gets bombarded with crosses every match.


I don't think GM recruitment has been great but he's going to need two more windows to sort the rot out.

[karldew]

I think we have a new kind of pressing style… depressing

[Chris Black come back]

I think we have a new kind of pressing style… depressing

Take a bow son. Take a bow.

[Sammy Chung was King]

We need to go 3-5-2. Set up with a decent defensive core with players ahead of them allowed a bit of freedom. For me they aren’t working hard enough as a team. Close the ball down as a team, then when you get the ball hold it. Don’t punt long balls.

[GazLaz]

I think a lot is made of formations when really it’s other fundamentals that are wrong that means you are struggling and whatever formation you play, you would struggle.

For what it’s worth I’d think I’d play 4321. Start with the wingers tucked in, maybe Faal and Roberts, and get the fullbacks a bit higher.

[drfcsteve]

If playing 4 at the back what do we do about the Wood & Olowu partnership?

[BillyStubbsTears]

I think a lot is made of formations when really it’s other fundamentals that are wrong that means you are struggling and whatever formation you play, you would struggle.

For what it’s worth I’d think I’d play 4321. Start with the wingers tucked in, maybe Faal and Roberts, and get the fullbacks a bit higher.

I agree that the quality of the players is paramount.

But we have what we have there. The job now is to get the best we can out if them. And I just can't see how we can be either secure defensively or have a base for launching attacks if we only have 3 players from this squad in midfield. Its clear as day from the first four matches that we haven't the ability nor physicality to make that work.

[Silkscarf]

Go 4-5-1 for a bit. Get a draw or 3, restore confidence. Maybe nick a win here and there via Deji and Faal. Boring but hard to break down.

Simple 4 at the back learn to do the basics and get to know each other. Full backs defend and cut out crosses. Centre backs boot balls away and head crosses upfield.

5 in midfield to stop us getting slaughtered there every week. Try everybody we have in there. They’re mostly the same player as far as I can see. Call it 4-1-4-1 if it makes you feel better.

Lone centre forward feeding off scraps. Same as now.

[TonySoprano]

              Miller.   Ironside


Molyneux.  Biggins.   Bailey.     Deji


Maxwell .  Faulkner.   Olowu.   Sterry

                       Lawler


44 f**king 2


Nothing but crossing practice for a month for deji and molly.

Strength training for biggins and hypnotherapy to turn him into a midfield monster.

Bailey, Nothing but passing practice until he can roll the ball onto a 1 pence piece from 100yards away every time.
Through balls for miller .

Nothing but running drills for maxwell and sterry until they spew every training session. Overlap machines.

Swap players as required when they're burnt out and repeat. The players won't last longer than a month with the regime I'd implement. 

The players that aren't currently starting are conditioning and training specifically for their role.

Mental health coaches galore, they've got to believe.


We'd get 100 points by Easter.

[sedwardsdrfc]

If we haven’t got the players to play through midfield then I can’t see the harm in 442. Always think when times are tough and confidence low it gives you a chance to play higher up the pitch or at least have a goal threat. 2 banks of 4 is easy to coach and hard to break down. 2 strikers can give teams trouble without needing loads of the ball.

4231 would be good too. Either way the 2 central midfielders need to just play tight in front of the back 4 and focus on not getting overrun.

[scawsby steve]

You can play whatever formation you want, but if the players aren't good enough, or don't want it enough, then it won't make a difference.

We'll find out in the next few weeks whether or not these players are good enough.

[grayx]

4-4-2 should stop us conceding so many goals, then take it from there.
As we start gaining points, lets get a bit more adventurous.

[karldew]

Do we have a plan B, C or even D? We just seem to stick to the same formation and sub like for like players. Need to adapt and mix it up a little. Teams are doing their homework before KO and we’re too easy to work out.

[drfcsteve]

There must be something we’re missing, we’re not paid to think about these things 24/7 like Grant is, but I’d love to understand what we’re trying to do in the games so far.

[roversdude]

I think we need to go 653 the holes we’re leaving at the moment lol

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I think the important thing is finding a consistent style.  He's tried to change it a bit too much for my liking.  The common problem with 10 new players - learning and finding a solid, consistent way to play and knowing your team-mates.  In any other job we'd have to learn a business and it takes months, footballers don't get that.  There's no surprise that the teams who've beaten us haven't signed that many players.  We still look like strangers.

We need to find an eleven and stick with it.  Yes the defence is weak so far, but the midfield and attack need to link up more.  I thought we saw that better in the Notts game early on but conceding hit us far more than it should have.