Map of the day

[BillyStubbsTears]

https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/3dluw7/percentage_of_nazi_votes_in_1933_and_percentage/

Given that the rise of the Far Right in Europe is in the news, these maps are interesting.

Top one is the % who voted for the Nazis in 1932. Darker=more

Bottom one is % who identified as Catholic around the same time. Darker = more.

The anti-correlation is astonishing.

But things change.

This map shows the party that won the largest vote share in each district  in the euro elections in Germany last week.

Grey: Centre Right
Red: Centre Left
Green: Green
Light blue: Far Right AfD


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/2024_European_Parliament_election_in_Germany_-_Results.svg

It's fascinating that West Germany seems to have moved on, while East Germany is still the bedrock of the German Far Right.

[Ldr]

Or maybe East Germans remember what it’s like to live under a communist regime?

[BillyStubbsTears]

They had good memories if they could remember that in 1932.

[BillyStubbsTears]

In fact anyone under about 45 has a good memory if they can remember that in 2024.

[ncRover]

It’s straightforward. West Germans have better outcomes in every measurable way. They had a head start due to living under western capitalism rather than the iron curtain. And wealth attracts wealth.

See here (click on the gif to play it):

https://x.com/tomaspueyo/status/1757777718509195512?s=46

As someone else said - poor economic conditions are a breeding ground for the far-right. How ironic that those conditions been conceived by communism in this case. How someone can look at these maps and claim “capitalism is evil” I do not know.

I also wonder what the defenders of the nationalist far-right such as Jordan Peterson think of that. They probably know and identify vulnerable people that they can exploit for their own means, not caring for the historical context while simultaneously making a career out of critiquing communism.

[Ldr]

It’s straightforward. West Germans have better outcomes in every measurable way. They had a head start due to living under western capitalism rather than the iron curtain. And wealth attracts wealth.

See here (click on the gif to play it):

https://x.com/tomaspueyo/status/1757777718509195512?s=46

As someone else said - poor economic conditions are a breeding ground for the far-right. How ironic that those conditions been conceived by communism in this case. How someone can look at these maps and claim “capitalism is evil” I do not know.

I also wonder what the defenders of the nationalist far-right such as Jordan Peterson think of that. They probably know and identify vulnerable people that they can exploit for their own means, not caring for the historical context while simultaneously making a career out of critiquing communism.

Reality doesn’t really suit Billy’s agenda, he lives in his own world

[BillyStubbsTears]

It’s straightforward. West Germans have better outcomes in every measurable way. They had a head start due to living under western capitalism rather than the iron curtain. And wealth attracts wealth.

See here (click on the gif to play it):

https://x.com/tomaspueyo/status/1757777718509195512?s=46

As someone else said - poor economic conditions are a breeding ground for the far-right. How ironic that those conditions been conceived by communism in this case. How someone can look at these maps and claim “capitalism is evil” I do not know.

I also wonder what the defenders of the nationalist far-right such as Jordan Peterson think of that. They probably know and identify vulnerable people that they can exploit for their own means, not caring for the historical context while simultaneously making a career out of critiquing communism.

I agree to some extent, but the economic development of East Germany has been stunning over the past 30 years. Their GDP per head has increased 150% since reunification. That of West Germany has only increased about 40%.

At reunification, their GDP per head was 1/3rd that of West Germany. Now it's about 2/3rds.

Yet they are still the ones to give the rods to the politicians who have set the scene for this, and once again they embrace the Far Right.

By the way, if Ldr's odd idea about them going to the far Right because they remember life under Communism had any value, surely you'd expect every ex-Communist country to throw their lot in with the Far Right. But they don't.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It’s straightforward. West Germans have better outcomes in every measurable way. They had a head start due to living under western capitalism rather than the iron curtain. And wealth attracts wealth.

See here (click on the gif to play it):

https://x.com/tomaspueyo/status/1757777718509195512?s=46

As someone else said - poor economic conditions are a breeding ground for the far-right. How ironic that those conditions been conceived by communism in this case. How someone can look at these maps and claim “capitalism is evil” I do not know.

I also wonder what the defenders of the nationalist far-right such as Jordan Peterson think of that. They probably know and identify vulnerable people that they can exploit for their own means, not caring for the historical context while simultaneously making a career out of critiquing communism.

Reality doesn’t really suit Billy’s agenda, he lives in his own world

So many trolling posts. You bored spadger?

[BobG]

Thank you Billy. I had seen nothing like this. It is fascinating, scaring, and provoking - of much thought. Knee jerk childishness betray their originators when considering a subject as deeply, deeply serious as this.

BobG
 

[ncRover]

It’s straightforward. West Germans have better outcomes in every measurable way. They had a head start due to living under western capitalism rather than the iron curtain. And wealth attracts wealth.

See here (click on the gif to play it):

https://x.com/tomaspueyo/status/1757777718509195512?s=46

As someone else said - poor economic conditions are a breeding ground for the far-right. How ironic that those conditions been conceived by communism in this case. How someone can look at these maps and claim “capitalism is evil” I do not know.

I also wonder what the defenders of the nationalist far-right such as Jordan Peterson think of that. They probably know and identify vulnerable people that they can exploit for their own means, not caring for the historical context while simultaneously making a career out of critiquing communism.

I agree to some extent, but the economic development of East Germany has been stunning over the past 30 years. Their GDP per head has increased 150% since reunification. That of West Germany has only increased about 40%.

At reunification, their GDP per head was 1/3rd that of West Germany. Now it's about 2/3rds.

Yet they are still the ones to give the rods to the politicians who have set the scene for this, and once again they embrace the Far Right.

By the way, if Ldr's odd idea about them going to the far Right because they remember life under Communism had any value, surely you'd expect every ex-Communist country to throw their lot in with the Far Right. But they don't.

Yes, still lagging behind though.

Other ex-communist countries are different to Germany though I’d argue.

The things the Western nationalist parties such as Afd and the National Rally have for ammunition such as Social Liberalism (“wokeism”) and non-EU immigration are nowhere near as prevalent to the same degree in Eastern Europe.

[Branton Red]

The difference is partly due to relative poverty - East Germans are still on average significantly poorer than West Germans. And the poorest suffer most during a cost of living crisis. Germany having economically suffered particularly badly since Covid for myriad reasons.

But it's also cultural. East Germany has always been culturally more "Nationalistic". From support for Bismarck (himself from Eastern Germany) and Prussian dominated military nationalism which dominated German foreign policy right up to the first world war - of which it was the main reason. And support for Hitler - the Nazis and their Nationalist coalition partners (DNVP) won c. 60% of the vote east of the Elbe (exc Berlin) in 1933 but only 44% nationally.

Catholic Germans were persecuted in the late 19th Century under Nationalists like Bismarck and his successors (staunch Lutherans) - hence their specific aversion to Hitlers Nationalism in the 1930s.

East Germany's Soviet past and subsequent comparative poverty have exacerbated the cultural differences between East and West but not created them.

East Germans still see power concentrated in wealthier West German hands - Berlin is in the East but it's voting habits mirror the West - they are culturally attracted by a Nationalist alternative dominated by people they see as more like them.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I agree with most of that BR. I do think the shadow of Prussian nationalism is still strong in East Germany.

I wonder how differently the 20th century would have unfolded if the Prussians hadn't become so dominant in the mid/late 19th?