Share of the club...

[GazLaz]

What is happening with Jim Beresford's share in the club?? Is Sir John looking for a replacement? I think while we are  in the championship we should be trying to sell (give away)  part of the club to someone with a bit of financial clout. I know it's easier said than done but JR is a good salesman!!

[Glyn_Wigley]

What Jim Beresford decides to do with any shares he holds is entirely up to him and nothing to do with the club or JR.

[silent majority]

The club is, and will always be, looking for further investment, it's an ongoing exercise and not something you only do in times of crisis.

[benaldo]

The club is, and will always be, looking for further investment, it's an ongoing exercise and not something you only do in times of crisis.

Shame they get more \"investment\" by handing the bucket round on matchday than they do from the rich and famous.

[firestarter]

That thieving git should be behind bars never mind having any association with us

[Standanista]

Off on a bit of a tangent, this one.  I gather we (the VSC) own 107,000 shares in Patienceform, and ergo Doncaster Rovers.  Questions:

1. What does that represent as a fraction of the full share capital of Patienceform/the club?  (I'm sure not much compared to JR and co, but every little helps.)

2. How many shares are there issued for the VSC to date?

Ergo, out of pure nosiness, I just wonder how much of the club each of us actually \"owns\"!

[Berkshire Rover]

Off on a bit of a tangent, this one.  I gather we (the VSC) own 107,000 shares in Patienceform, and ergo Doncaster Rovers.  Questions:

1. What does that represent as a fraction of the full share capital of Patienceform/the club?  (I'm sure not much compared to JR and co, but every little helps.)

2. How many shares are there issued for the VSC to date?

Ergo, out of pure nosiness, I just wonder how much of the club each of us actually \"owns\"!

At the last published date (march this year I think) Patienceform had issued 12.5 m shares, JR, Dick Watson and Terry Bramhall had about 3.0m each, the balane is held by other Drectors and the VSC.

The VSC does have 107,000 shares, and we have issued over 800 memberships to the VSC  which on a simple maths basis says about 125 shares each, BUT and it is a big but no member of the trust can access those shares, i.e. If I said I wanted to leave the VSC I couldn't take  any DRFC shares with me, all that happens is that my sharecin the VSC is returned to the trust.

However, for £27 for new members and £12 a year for existing members you retain an interest many times greater than
 that in the club,

Course if anyone has a few million lying around that they don't want, we could buy a few more shares in the club.

[Berkshire Rover]

The club is, and will always be, looking for further investment, it's an ongoing exercise and not something you only do in times of crisis.

Shame they get more \"investment\" by handing the bucket round on matchday than they do from the rich and famous.

As appreciated as they arevI suspect the bucket collections don't match the 7 m shares bought by the KM. 2/3

The shareholders in Patieceform and their accounts are available for small fee from Companies House.

[silent majority]

The club is, and will always be, looking for further investment, it's an ongoing exercise and not something you only do in times of crisis.

Shame they get more \"investment\" by handing the bucket round on matchday than they do from the rich and famous.

Shame that your post is complete and utter nonsense and doesn't bear any relevance to the question or my response.

[Draytonian III]

Yawn, Yawn.              Bigerty, Bigerty

[Draytonian III]

Yawn, Yawn.              Bigerty, Bigerty       Same old Benaldo

[Standanista]

Off on a bit of a tangent, this one.  I gather we (the VSC) own 107,000 shares in Patienceform, and ergo Doncaster Rovers.  Questions:

1. What does that represent as a fraction of the full share capital of Patienceform/the club?  (I'm sure not much compared to JR and co, but every little helps.)

2. How many shares are there issued for the VSC to date?

Ergo, out of pure nosiness, I just wonder how much of the club each of us actually \"owns\"!

At the last published date (march this year I think) Patienceform had issued 12.5 m shares, JR, Dick Watson and Terry Bramhall had about 3.0m each, the balane is held by other Drectors and the VSC.

The VSC does have 107,000 shares, and we have issued over 800 memberships to the VSC  which on a simple maths basis says about 125 shares each, BUT and it is a big but no member of the trust can access those shares, i.e. If I said I wanted to leave the VSC I couldn't take  any DRFC shares with me, all that happens is that my sharecin the VSC is returned to the trust.

However, for £27 for new members and £12 a year for existing members you retain an interest many times greater than
 that in the club,

Course if anyone has a few million lying around that they don't want, we could buy a few more shares in the club.

Ta.  In that case, I make it a 0.001% stake in Rovers for every VSC share each of us holds.  As a proportion of the Keepmoat pitch that's 0.0836 square metres, or a foot square in old money.

I really must get out more.

[albie]

Are the shares actually worth anything really, as an asset to sell on?

Seems to me that the shares are in a loss making business, so in effect a buyer would simply be acquiring potential liabilities. The asset base of DRFC is probably below the continuing financial commitments, without further balancing cheques from the BoD at year end, but correct me if I am wrong.

The reason anyone would \"invest\" are to do with;
(a) vanity (Mr.Big syndrome),
(b) philanthropy (putting your money into a local good cause),or
(c) separate business interest (like land acquisition),

or some combination of all these.

Maybe if Beresford has no further use for his shares he could gift them to the VSC to manage on behalf of the members.

Then again, perhaps he still wants to hold on!

[bobjimwilly]

Are the shares actually worth anything really, as an asset to sell on?

Seems to me that the shares are in a loss making business, so in effect a buyer would simply be acquiring potential liabilities. The asset base of DRFC is probably below the continuing financial commitments, without further balancing cheques from the BoD at year end, but correct me if I am wrong.

The reason anyone would \"invest\" are to do with;
(a) vanity (Mr.Big syndrome),
(b) philanthropy (putting your money into a local good cause),or
(c) separate business interest (like land acquisition),

or some combination of all these.

Maybe if Beresford has no further use for his shares he could gift them to the VSC to manage on behalf of the members.

Then again, perhaps he still wants to hold on!

You're not alone in your thinking there mate!

[Berkshire Rover]

Are the shares actually worth anything really, as an asset to sell on?

Seems to me that the shares are in a loss making business, so in effect a buyer would simply be acquiring potential liabilities. The asset base of DRFC is probably below the continuing financial commitments, without further balancing cheques from the BoD at year end, but correct me if I am wrong.

The reason anyone would \"invest\" are to do with;
(a) vanity (Mr.Big syndrome),
(b) philanthropy (putting your money into a local good cause),or
(c) separate business interest (like land acquisition),

or some combination of all these.

Maybe if Beresford has no further use for his shares he could gift them to the VSC to manage on behalf of the members.

Then again, perhaps he still wants to hold on!

Albie, spot on with the exception that you don't take on any additional liabilities, tht's what the limited in limited company means.

The shares (like any others) are only worth what somebody else is prepared to pay for them.
And as far as the VSC is concerned I would suggest we are defintiely in option b)although our stake in the club (plus the relationships built up with JR, directors and staff) give us our position of influence.

[Drover]

What Jim Beresford decides to do with any shares he holds is entirely up to him and nothing to do with the club or JR.

Would you say the same if he gave them to Ken Richardson?

[Glyn_Wigley]

What Jim Beresford decides to do with any shares he holds is entirely up to him and nothing to do with the club or JR.

Would you say the same if he gave them to Ken Richardson?

Yes, of course I would because it is entirely up to him and nothing to do with the club or JR and what I or anybody else might think about what he may or may not do with them changes nothing.

Why, do you think that people who don't own the shares have some magical hold over the person that does own them?

[albie]

Berkshire, sorry, I have not been clear.

What I meant by \"additional liabilities\" was the expectation that as a member of the BoD you would cough up at the end of the season to help \"level off\" the operating deficit.

The extent to which that is necessary being dependent upon the accuracy of the budget set, and the ability of the management to stay within bounds.

To stay at this level we need to be smarter than others to use what resources we have more efficiently.

The only other game is the casino economy of the benefactor route some other Championship clubs are following, but with the high risk fall-out when a loss of interest from the main man causes the whole house of cards to collapse.

[Drover]

What Jim Beresford decides to do with any shares he holds is entirely up to him and nothing to do with the club or JR.

Would you say the same if he gave them to Ken Richardson?

Yes, of course I would because it is entirely up to him and nothing to do with the club or JR and what I or anybody else might think about what he may or may not do with them changes nothing.

Why, do you think that people who don't own the shares have some magical hold over the person that does own them?

Glynn I think your assuming gazlaz and me are wanting/think we should be able to decide what he does with the shares?Im NOT and do not think Gazlaz is,I think there is nothing wrong in WANTING to KNOW what he is doing with them.Asking if anybody knew anything is reasonable,Considering the harm some directors do to football clubs,I think its understandable.He certainly does have the right to do what he wants with them and tell nobody,but he also has the right to tell anybody anything he wants.He may want people to know he is prepared to sell for instance.I have been a share holder before and got a report every year with a list off every shareholder and how many they held at the start of the year and how many they held at the end of the year in the same company as me.Im not certain(maybe a moderator will know) but I believe it is the rules/law to do this report,hence it will have something to do with JR(and anyone else with shares in Rovers) because consequently this will mean he has the right to be told about any sales of shares over the year.

[benaldo]

I wonder if a vsc director (as a gatekeeping stakeholder, if you will) is in receipt of some kind of annual fiscal report from Rovers? Perhaps, as vsc members (not including myself obviously) you are all entitled to have easy access to any financial report from Rovers as a watermark on your investment?

Just a thought.

[Berkshire Rover]

Berkshire, sorry, I have not been clear.

What I meant by \"additional liabilities\" was the expectation that as a member of the BoD you would cough up at the end of the season to help \"level off\" the operating deficit.

The extent to which that is necessary being dependent upon the accuracy of the budget set, and the ability of the management to stay within bounds.

To stay at this level we need to be smarter than others to use what resources we have more efficiently.

The only other game is the casino economy of the benefactor route some other Championship clubs are following, but with the high risk fall-out when a loss of interest from the main man causes the whole house of cards to collapse.

Albie,
I'm sure that informal expectation does exist, was and is understood by our principal benefactors who to date have allowed us to maintain a sensible balance between straight break-even and the folly of casino economics as you put it.

[Berkshire Rover]

I wonder if a vsc director (as a gatekeeping stakeholder, if you will) is in receipt of some kind of annual fiscal report from Rovers? Perhaps, as vsc members (not including myself obviously) you are all entitled to have easy access to any financial report from Rovers as a watermark on your investment?

Just a thought.

Strictly speaking we have no more (or less) rights than any other shareholder in the club, our responsibilities as a trust and our ambitions go beyond what we can ask by right, how we achieve those is something that is continually debated by the VSC Directors (on behalf of the membership), there's space on the Board if you want to join the debate! And that goes for anybody who wants to work with us to make things better!