Time for the infighting and bitching to stop!

[graingrover]

another final comment on this that I would like to make ... I have found that if in life you can make the distinction between what someone does and what someone IS in your remark it makes a big difference .. like \" what you SAID is **** as opposed to you are **** . It sort of leaves life's door open to reconciliations and afterthoughts ..even to better communications in the future!

[graingrover]

have we signed Viking Don yet on a 5 year contract?

[Pintolager]

have we signed Viking Don yet on a 5 year contract?

I think he is in negotiations at the moment and I think he would play for less than £2,000 a week. He could be the answer to our defensive woes.......

[Mr1Croft]

I read this and think \"Great, maybe once in a while I can give my views without being belittled on insulted by the likes of certain posters\", then I look at the thread directly below labelled \"ODISMALL\" and well, I think \"That lasted a long time\".

This forum had the swear filter removed, and I'm pretty sure there never has been a moderation process on comments like their is on different forums. Now is the time for that to change. If a fan of a different team comes on and starts giving abuse, usually (in the past) he has been banned, I think the same should be put into action here, forum users have had more than one warning to quiet down the abuse and nothing has changed, things may have seen quieter hours or days after a thread like this but you can't keep their quiet forever if you still have a \"right to post\" type policy in place.

This website (and it's servers) is the virtual headquarters (albeit the only headquarters) of the Viking Supporters Co-Operative, the VSC needs strengthening and by the end of the month I should have my own green membership badge (once I sort out paying my subs), but I suspect I may be alone. For those of you who beleive the club is jepordised by this new plan \"McKay\", and you fear it will go wrong; then NOW is the time to invest in the VSC to make sure that should anything go pear shaped there is something we can do about it, at the moment it is probably no secret that the VSC couldn't keep afloat a canal boat on the current finances, never mind a football club.

But the VSC board have to ask themselves if this website/forum is the main driving force of the VSC, then it should be a pleasant and freindly placed for all people who love the red and white hoops. If that means moderating comments, and banning individuals who don't listen, then so be it, I would rather promote the VSC buying more shares in the club than give people the \"right to abuse\". This thread should be a last warning, and if they don't listen, ban them and make it known publicly as an example.

You are not only driving members of the Doncaster Rovers community away, but you are also driving potential members of the VSC away too, and that is what I beleive is the main purpose to have a forum in the first place. If that is your goal to come here and disrupt the work the VSC do, rather than add constructive criticism, then I think you should be the first to be banned.

Come on VSC, give the users one final warning before unvieling a brand new virtual axe.

[ditch_drfc]

Does anyone else think that if we were winning they'd be none of this \"infighting\"?

[Mr1Croft]

Does anyone else think that if we were winning they'd be none of this \"infighting\"?

We were winning against Palace, Peterbrough and Ipswich, but the arguemnts haven't been because we won/lost, they have only fuelled to it.

This has been cause by the ongoings of DRFC from late September, for most fans in less than 24 hours John Ryan backed SOD, he was then placed on gardening leave and Dean Saunders replaced him. We then hear rumours of very very good players on about coming here, and we find out McKay is somehow involved and then the story of his plan comes out.

Only those \"in the know\" may fully accept the actions taken by the club, but whether you were for or against what happened, you can't deny it looked terrible from the media's angle. It all happened so quickly everyone looked like hypocrites.

Then came probably the biggest divide of Rovers fans, it wasn't a case of just SOD VS SAUNDERS, it was the plan McKay being attacked and defended, it has been done to the death and when valid points ran out, people started firing insults.

Then to make matters worse on the Forum someone posted implying to be a loyal and proper Rovers fan you must be a VSC member. Cracks are showing all over this website and if we don't act immediatley I fear it will be too late to attract the users and potential VSC members we have lost as a result...

[ditch_drfc]

I think that's a bit of an overreaction, but I kind of agree with you. I mean if we weren't in a relegation battle I think things would be fine. It's testing times, not just for the team but also for us fans.

[Mr1Croft]

I think that's a bit of an overreaction, but I kind of agree with you. I mean if we weren't in a relegation battle I think things would be fine. It's testing times, not just for the team but also for us fans.

See I don't think so, I don't think there has ever been a split that has caused so much arguements and debates and point scoring and individual abuse, and it's all because of what has happened.

When we was bottom there was a general consensus of debating, but abuse wasn't a frequent as now...

[benaldo]

I agree with lcroft.

Too much polarisation going on when the one thing we all have in common is we like seeing Doncaster Rovers win football games. I already suggested some more \"strict\" moderation, perhaps that is the way forward? At the moment the vsc is coming across as the preserve of the bitter.

The whole SOD saga needed, and maybe still needs, debating, but the personal insults to other posters really have to stop. Graingrover put it best for me when he wrote \"You don't have to call someone a c*** but you can call what they've written s***\". Personally I think swearing directly at someone is offensive, and for me, there are a number of posters I now look forward to meeting for all the wrong reasons, which is a shame because the same people swearing at me are probably not that bad in person. I like to think that I'll say anything on here to any of your faces in person.

Lcroft says \"cracks are showing in the vsc\" and I agree. Too much \"Superior\" postings, and too little cohesion.

Others get angry when I slate the odd player, who I genuinely believe to be poor, then openly slag off mckay and Saunders and expect that to be ok, it's bizarre. Anyone is entitled to argue anything about the club as long as the sum total of their argument isn't just - \"f*** off you w*****\" - but unfortunately a lot of posters seem to not be capable of doing that. Shame.

[VivaRovers]

People like Viva rovers saying Ive paid my money but not going to bother supporting them?

Erm, what?

[Donnybob]

Football is a game that inflames passion, both on and off the pitch. Without passion there would be no forums but I wonder if Filo would prefer a soulless, boring, insipid forum where everyone just posts: ‘Isn’t the garden rosy’, ‘Yes, I agree’, ‘Same as him’, ‘Me too!’?

Since this thread was started I have not contributed to the forum and I’ve contemplated stopping posting altogether. You see, I’m not sure whether Filo means me when he says: ‘It`s driving people away from posting on the forum, the people responsible know who they are!’

I hate it when folk talk like that, don’t you? Why make sweeping accusations if you don’t have the courage to name names? Am I the one being driven away or am I responsible for doing it to others? I’m not sure. If he feels so strongly why didn’t he name names? Or does he not have the courage of his convictions? Sweeping statements like that are more damaging than upsetting a few individuals, surely?

Benaldo and I have a bit of friendly banter on here (at least I think it’s friendly and I’d happily buy him a pint and have the same arguments with him face to face). We sit in diametrically opposing camps but I enjoy his input and regular attempts to prove me wrong.

He may talk a load of tripe at times but I wouldn’t want to deny him the opportunity. He does attempt to throw ‘facts’ into the ring, at least facts as he interprets them, when he valiantly tries to defend the indefensible. I can’t say I agree with his views on certain players (actually anyone who’s not been hired by the hour by Our Wullie and Soundbite) but it is what he believes and surely it’s my right to question his beliefs.

Indeed I know when I’ve scored a point because he’ll resort to name calling – Donnybobbins, etc. That’s a victory in my eyes, not an insult. Yes, I use the sobriquets OW and S because these people are the subject of our discussions on here, the current holders of the sack race crown. That doesn’t make me a hypocrite. It simply displays my concern for a situation that troubles me greatly. Can it be right to nickname someone SOD and wrong to call another Soundbite?

And as we score points off each other I’m sure many are amused by our antics. It’s not like we attack other folk at random, is it?

However I do like to think when I question the remarkable U-turn of the Chairman, his talk of play-offs, the uncomfortable way in which SOD’s departure was handled – and is still hanging over the club like a bad smell – the potential jeopardy we could be in, the way a piggy bank (that didn’t even exist 3 months ago) has been discovered and smashed open, etc, etc, then it is argued, I hope, with eloquence and without personal malice to fellow supporters.

Do I not have the right to question whether Dean Saunders has the managerial experience to manage a Championship football club? Am I not entitled to think he is completely out of his depth? Am I supposed to believe he’s going to fulfil his promise to reduce the injury list? Or is it okay for me to hope he’ll recognise his shortcomings quickly and do the right thing...?

I take no pleasure from being told to f*** off and support Leeds, or to go and support whoever SOD manages next. I am appalled by those who have attempted to slaughter his reputation and show no regard or respect for what he achieved for us.

It’s so easy for Filo to demand: ‘Throw your differences aside and do what fans are supposed to do, and show some solidarity!!!!!!!!’

Is it my fault the support for this club has been cleaved apart? Is it my fault the attendances have dropped by a couple of thousand in the past two months?

Filo says: ‘If there was ever a time to rally round and get behind your team, the time is now! regardless of your views on whether the strategy is right or wrong, the very least we can do is get behind whatever team is on the pitch, we are all Rovers are n`t we?’

No-one at the ground or on here is failing to get behind the team as far as I’m aware. None of us hopes they lose games as some have laughingly suggested. The pain of losing under Saunders is no different to that under O’Driscoll. If anything it is worse. He has far better players at his disposal.

It is what is and has been going on off the pitch that’s at issue. Rallying round and supporting Saunders won’t win us a single extra point all season. He’s either up to the task or he’s not. That’s between him and his players. How hard he tries or how many people he makes laugh with his jokes makes no difference. It’s a results business. End of. Just because we’re stuck with paying him for three years doesn’t mean everyone has to back him blindly.

If our position doesn’t improve dramatically over the next ten games I wonder whether those who regard him as the messiah today will have a change of heart...

Those who sang ‘SOD’s Barmy Army’ soon changed their tune – or at least they changed the lyric. It’ll happen again, assuming they stick around when things get worse (can they possibly do that? You bet!).

But when a moderator comes on here chiding everyone, tarring everyone with the same brush in the manner of a primary school teacher – ‘You know who you are... you’re naughty little boys – then I think it’s out of order. A moderator’s job is to moderate excesses, to edit or delete posts or take individuals to task, rather than stamp his feet and wail at all and sundry.

Filo, I’m sure, means well, but if he and the other moderators think there’s a problem with the forum then maybe they should look at more effective ways of managing it. Sweeping generalisations are not the answer and if they want everything in the garden to be sunshine and roses then maybe they should start employing censorship and behaving like tin-pot dictators because you cannot radically change the opinions and mindsets of the membership simply by making outrageous demands.

This whole thread is out of order.

[Filo]

If the cap fits, as they say, if names were mentioned, then we`d get cry`s of \"what about him\" and such, the people with a guilty complex would come on and vigorously oppose what I posted, did it touch a nerve with someone?

[madmick50]

I considered not posting any more as well. But then I thought that would be the easy way out and I have decided to soldier on for now at least.

[benaldo]

I think donnybob is deluded, but he's far from being a bad poster. The bad posters who are turning a good forum into a pile of poo are the ones whose best and only arguments consist of \"you're a c***\" or \"f*** off you w*****\". Now THEY are the ones who need a good \"moderating\" not people like donnybob. Donnybob may be wrong in my eyes, but he isn't repulsive....and although I disagree with his arguments, at least he puts them across in an intelligent and polite manner.

It's the aggressive swearing posters, we all know who they are, that are ruining the forum, not donnybob, or me or even madmick.

[Filo]

I think donnybob is deluded, but he's far from being a bad poster. The bad posters who are turning a good forum into a pile of poo are the ones whose best and only arguments consist of \"you're a c***\" or \"f*** off you w*****\". Now THEY are the ones who need a good \"moderating\" not people like donnybob. Donnybob may be wrong in my eyes, but he isn't repulsive....and although I disagree with his arguments, at least he puts them across in an intelligent and polite manner.

It's the aggressive swearing posters, we all know who they are, that are ruining the forum, not donnybob, or me or even madmick.

Did I say those were bad posters, hence the reason no names were mentioned, the recent reply by me of \"If the cap fits\" applies to any one who may think the OP was about them, donnybob is not sure whether I was referring to him in the OP, I can assure everyone that it was not directed at any individual in particular!

[Mr1Croft]

Its not just the swearing either, its the continuous point scoring which I find more insulting.

Just this week someone quoted one of my posts, bold printed something I said and the only comment they made was:



To go through what each other writes and ignore the content and pick on grammar, spelling and even the odd bit of pettiness is really downgrading what someone may have taken a while to write. To just pick on something such as a mis-spelling rather than replying with a well thought out and valid point is just childish...

[The L J Monk]

Its not just the swearing either, its the continuous point scoring which I find more insulting.

Just this week someone quoted one of my posts, bold printed something I said and the only comment they made was:



To go through what each other writes and ignore the content and pick on grammar, spelling and even the odd bit of pettiness is really downgrading what someone may have taken a while to write. To just pick on something such as a mis-spelling rather than replying with a well thought out and valid point is just childish...

Should be \"it's\".

[graingrover]

I do think posters should always try to make a distinction , when criticising, between the content of the post and the person of the poster . None of us really know who is who ... we all assume fictitious identities but still take it personally when a criticismn is made of the fictitious PERSONA. Much better to say I do not agree with your stupid comment than to say YOU  are stupid ... usually much more of course .!!!!! I have been very turned off and will not be posting much more but I DO appreciate the info, that VSC posts on here for us .

[madbadrob]

having not even read these boards for a long time I feel out of my depth with this thread.  That said I do have an opinion and whether you agree or not is immaterial.

People will always have diametrically opposed on topics such as which manager was better or who the best striker is.  This is played out on the terraces and in the pub every week so to expect it not to be on a forum is ridiculous.  To keep banging on about SOD or Deano is also ridiculous.  At the end of the day whether SOD's dismissal was handled correctly or not is now old news and not going to change so we need to get used to it.  

Then we get to the points about members debating and 'getting personal'  this also happens in the pub so on a forum it is also going to happen.  What is different though is in a pub you can see that the banter is friendly or that the person making the point is also being good natured about it yet online the balck and white print does not show this and we should all remember that.

Do we use a forum to vent out anger or the terraces?  Well personally I dont think the forum is the best place to make that point and I do believe we need to let the club know how we feel.  If that is before a game then so be it however this would only lead to a divide amongst fans and the team dont need that.

So we are left with the VSC to do this on our behalf.  Do we trust the VSC?  I personally cant say I do.  When in a recent post they made it clear they learn information and keep it confidential I lost all resepect for them to voice our opinions in general.  I believe the VSC should be totally independent from the club, the club should only give them the information that they would want the press knowing and that the VSC should be able to go to Ryan and the board and say \"the fans dont agree with this or that\" or \"how does the club intend to deal with this\"  We only have to look at how the Owls supporters club nearly brought their team down for being in the boards pocket one minute and against them the next.

Finally if posts are repeating through threads then it should show the VSC how angry the paying fans are with the present and past situations.  It should not be slammed down or asked to stop.  The VSC should be going to the club and expressing this with the hope that the club can answer the critics.  By answer I mean a straight answer and not the convoluted responses JR gave them before.

Now all that said WILLIE MCKAY OUT NOW!!!!!!!!

[madmick50]

Welcome on board madbadrob. I think you've picked an excellent name and made some great points. I particularly liked the very last one you made!

[Wellred]

Synonyms for mad:       brainsick, crazy, demented, disturbed, mad, sick, unbalanced, unhinged.

Yet another lunatic joins the forum.

[Berkshire Rover]

having not even read these boards for a long time I feel out of my depth with this thread.  That said I do have an opinion and whether you agree or not is immaterial.

People will always have diametrically opposed on topics such as which manager was better or who the best striker is.  This is played out on the terraces and in the pub every week so to expect it not to be on a forum is ridiculous.  To keep banging on about SOD or Deano is also ridiculous.  At the end of the day whether SOD's dismissal was handled correctly or not is now old news and not going to change so we need to get used to it.  

Then we get to the points about members debating and 'getting personal'  this also happens in the pub so on a forum it is also going to happen.  What is different though is in a pub you can see that the banter is friendly or that the person making the point is also being good natured about it yet online the balck and white print does not show this and we should all remember that.

Do we use a forum to vent out anger or the terraces?  Well personally I dont think the forum is the best place to make that point and I do believe we need to let the club know how we feel.  If that is before a game then so be it however this would only lead to a divide amongst fans and the team dont need that.

So we are left with the VSC to do this on our behalf.  Do we trust the VSC?  I personally cant say I do.  When in a recent post they made it clear they learn information and keep it confidential I lost all resepect for them to voice our opinions in general.  I believe the VSC should be totally independent from the club, the club should only give them the information that they would want the press knowing and that the VSC should be able to go to Ryan and the board and say \"the fans dont agree with this or that\" or \"how does the club intend to deal with this\"  We only have to look at how the Owls supporters club nearly brought their team down for being in the boards pocket one minute and against them the next.

Finally if posts are repeating through threads then it should show the VSC how angry the paying fans are with the present and past situations.  It should not be slammed down or asked to stop.  The VSC should be going to the club and expressing this with the hope that the club can answer the critics.  By answer I mean a straight answer and not the convoluted responses JR gave them before.

Now all that said WILLIE MCKAY OUT NOW!!!!!!!!

A couple of points you might want to consider

The VSC provide the vehicle for you to express your views and you are welcomeco do so.

The fact that we are rom time o time entrusted with confidential information is a sign of the relevance that the club has for s, we never ask for such information.

The point about repetition is that  it is a very small minority of registered forum members who repeatedly put forward one view or the other. There are over 1,500 registered users, if we saw huge numbers of different peope saying the same thing that would be a signal to action but not  two or three strident advocates of one position or another.

[vaya]

Welcome on board madbadrob. I think you've picked an excellent name and made some great points. I particularly liked the very last one you made!

I bet this turns out like Fight Club.

[redwine]

No it wouldn't


Because no one talks about Fight Club

But I've heard more than I care to know about everyones opinion

[Mr1Croft]

having not even read these boards for a long time I feel out of my depth with this thread.  That said I do have an opinion and whether you agree or not is immaterial.

People will always have diametrically opposed on topics such as which manager was better or who the best striker is.  This is played out on the terraces and in the pub every week so to expect it not to be on a forum is ridiculous.  To keep banging on about SOD or Deano is also ridiculous.  At the end of the day whether SOD's dismissal was handled correctly or not is now old news and not going to change so we need to get used to it.  

Then we get to the points about members debating and 'getting personal'  this also happens in the pub so on a forum it is also going to happen.  What is different though is in a pub you can see that the banter is friendly or that the person making the point is also being good natured about it yet online the balck and white print does not show this and we should all remember that.

Do we use a forum to vent out anger or the terraces?  Well personally I dont think the forum is the best place to make that point and I do believe we need to let the club know how we feel.  If that is before a game then so be it however this would only lead to a divide amongst fans and the team dont need that.

So we are left with the VSC to do this on our behalf.  Do we trust the VSC?  I personally cant say I do.  When in a recent post they made it clear they learn information and keep it confidential I lost all resepect for them to voice our opinions in general.  I believe the VSC should be totally independent from the club, the club should only give them the information that they would want the press knowing and that the VSC should be able to go to Ryan and the board and say \"the fans dont agree with this or that\" or \"how does the club intend to deal with this\"  We only have to look at how the Owls supporters club nearly brought their team down for being in the boards pocket one minute and against them the next.

Finally if posts are repeating through threads then it should show the VSC how angry the paying fans are with the present and past situations.  It should not be slammed down or asked to stop.  The VSC should be going to the club and expressing this with the hope that the club can answer the critics.  By answer I mean a straight answer and not the convoluted responses JR gave them before.

Now all that said WILLIE MCKAY OUT NOW!!!!!!!!

First things first, welcome to the forum madbadrob, a well thought out post and one I think is worthy of a reply.

This thread in particular is not about debating or difference of opinions, I personally am quite against the current set up at Doncaster Rovers, but the problem here is this forum is driving more and more users away with insults and pointless point-scoring rather than debating. But most of what you say is correct in things getting personal from time to time, but in recent weeks there has definatley become an \"us and them\" with the same posters on boths sides who contunally attempt to point score because they have spent thousands of words on debating the same point, it is now either repition or insults.

Your veiws on the VSC are personal I understand, but you do make a point. The VSC is a trust and so it is seperate from the club, the only exception is that the VSC is a shareholder (although only a minor) of DRFC. This forum \"Viking Chat\" can also be seen as a seperate idea from the VSC, it is provided by the trust, and it has probably helped to grow the membership of the VSC, but apart from Hospitality and a Forum, how many people on here actually understand what the VSC do? That is my personal problem with the trust, the hospitality seems like a marketing stunt to try and get more members on board, but we see less and less on what the VSC do on the supporters behalf.

I'm not implying here what the VSC do, because I am aware of projects and I am personally involved in one of them which is about the VSC getting more involved in the community. But do half of the trust know that projects are ongoing? Probably not, and that is because the VSC do have a slight problem (in my eyes) in getting things out to the whole trust on what is happening and what the VSC are doing.

I do though agree with your point on confidentiality, which is why I ask, when John Ryan tells Gareth Thomas (Chairman) something that he may want out of the press' veiw, is Gareth told this as a freind of JR or as Chairman of the VSC? Because if the latter is the reason why, then I beleive Gareth has a protocol to follow in informing members, regardless of John Ryan's wishes, if members are paying their subs so that the VSC can buy more and more shares in DRFC, then it is only fair that they are told the information to feel engaged with the club. If Gareth was not the Chairman would he be told these \"secrets\", I don't beleive so, and that is why he should oblige to tell the members what is going on in the boardroom at Doncaster Rovers.

[Standanista]

What a load of shite on this thread, exactly why I never renewed my Yorkshire membership.

Man up and behave, the lot of ye.  Like f**king women essayists with as much pen ink as menopause.

THIS is why John Ryan wouldn't give anybody born in DN4 or westward a say in the club.  And quite right too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW7eNNdaJO4

[Alonzo Drake]

I do think posters should always try to make a distinction , when criticising, between the content of the post and the person of the poster . None of us really know who is who ... we all assume fictitious identities but still take it personally when a criticismn is made of the fictitious PERSONA. Much better to say I do not agree with your stupid comment than to say YOU  are stupid ... usually much more of course .!!!!! I have been very turned off and will not be posting much more but I DO appreciate the info, that VSC posts on here for us .

I hope you do keep posting Brian. The forum is going through a phase, and it will pass through it. I've been on here in its different guises since the late 90s.

The McKay experiment is bold, brave, fascinating and ground breaking. I really hope it succeeds. However, change is always difficult to stomach, and the rapid changes at our club have unhinged a handful of people, resulting in the inane trolls posted on here -- made merely to illicit responses. And I have succumbed to that!

We will return to constructive debate and criticism, as soon as our new classy players start to pile up our survival points. So, hopefully someone will post something tomorrow evening with the title -- Just Got Back, or something similar.