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Crofty in an excellent appointment to the higher echelons of the VSC. Despite being politically incorrect in the past the VSC has recognised his talents and he has benefited accordingly. So have we all. We now have a voice (I'm talking about all us doom mongers).If Crofty changes his mind about his views in the past then that should give all us doom mongers pause for thought. He now has a lot more information to hand and I for one will respect his views and not jump to the obvious conclusion that he is now towing the VSC line because that is how he will get on. I credit him with being an honest individual who will still give his honest opinion about things. His answers to VSC questions are always excellent and the other moderators could take a leaf out of his book.As far as the Labour/Tory argument goes I am an unabashed Labour Party hater. They have totally ruined the country and anyone who is thick enough to blame the Tories who are only trying to sort out the horrendous mess they were left should never be allowed to vote ever again.[/quote]Unfortunately we seem to have lacked both effective ruling and opposition parties (both Conservative and Labour) over the last 20-30 years or so.It begs a question about how effective our existing type of democracy is , imo the weakness of an opposition and it's policies are equally as bad as the inefficiences of the ruling group. All politicians are elected to contribute to the well being of this nation and they have all failed in recent times to produce the goods sadly.In the meantime 'Rome still burns' infrastructure is corroding alarmingly and the fabric of society is beginning to tear about at the seams. The Tory/Liberal parties both 'swanned' about whilst Rome was burning as the existing Labour leadership continues to do.Where are the strong opposition policies that can be used by the Government of the day as there were in the past (albeit 'watered down' and given a diferent slant) ? The answer is nowhere, basically we have a set of grey politicians that could virtually be moved from party to party without any discernable difference.My apologies I've just realised this is an 'on topic' thread.
I credit him with being an honest individual who will still give his honest opinion about things.
As far as the Labour/Tory argument goes I am an unabashed Labour Party hater. They have totally ruined the country and anyone who is thick enough to blame the Tories who are only trying to sort out the horrendous mess they were left should never be allowed to vote ever again.
Unfortunately we seem to have lacked both effective ruling and opposition parties (both Conservative and Labour) over the last 20-30 years or so.It begs a question about how effective our existing type of democracy is , imo the weakness of an opposition and it's policies are equally as bad as the inefficiences of the ruling group. All politicians are elected to contribute to the well being of this nation and they have all failed in recent times to produce the goods sadly.The Tory/Liberal parties both 'swanned' about whilst Rome was burning as the existing Labour leadership continues to do.Where are the strong opposition policies that can be used by the Government of the day as they were in the past (albeit 'watered down' and gien a diferent slant) ? The answer is nowhere, basically we have a set of grey politicians that could virtually could be noved from party to party without any obvious difference.
Quote from: \"mjdgreg\" post=222167As far as the Labour/Tory argument goes I am an unabashed Labour Party hater. They have totally ruined the country and anyone who is thick enough to blame the Tories who are only trying to sort out the horrendous mess they were left should never be allowed to vote ever again.This topic is far too big NOT to have a dedicated threadMinds immesurably superior to mine can then tell you why THEY think you are wrongPersonally each colour Govt blames the previous lot and you seem to have gone along with that view with the phrase \" they have totally ruined the Country \"However were you around when Mrs Thatcher decided to totally ruin the Mining industry which in turn led to .... which led to .... which led to ... where we are today ?As for suggesting that people have to be of a certain intelligence to be allowed to vote - I come from a more serious angle and would wish EACH VOTE cast JUST to be of equal weight. Some Tory seats are won with 11 or 12 thousand votes and (I cant be bothered to look it up) some Labour Seats are won with 36000 votes (Hemsworth and Goole and Thorne used to be higher even than that) so 36000 gets Labour 1 Seat whereas the same number of votes gets the Conservatives 3 SeatsPersonally I think that is grossly unfair but heigh ho what the F... do I know. I should not even be entitled to a vote iyo
Has this thread not earned the right to go in off-topic yet
Quote from: \"DONNYWOLF\" post=222188Quote from: \"mjdgreg\" post=222167As far as the Labour/Tory argument goes I am an unabashed Labour Party hater. They have totally ruined the country and anyone who is thick enough to blame the Tories who are only trying to sort out the horrendous mess they were left should never be allowed to vote ever again.This topic is far too big NOT to have a dedicated threadMinds immesurably superior to mine can then tell you why THEY think you are wrongPersonally each colour Govt blames the previous lot and you seem to have gone along with that view with the phrase \" they have totally ruined the Country \"However were you around when Mrs Thatcher decided to totally ruin the Mining industry which in turn led to .... which led to .... which led to ... where we are today ?As for suggesting that people have to be of a certain intelligence to be allowed to vote - I come from a more serious angle and would wish EACH VOTE cast JUST to be of equal weight. Some Tory seats are won with 11 or 12 thousand votes and (I cant be bothered to look it up) some Labour Seats are won with 36000 votes (Hemsworth and Goole and Thorne used to be higher even than that) so 36000 gets Labour 1 Seat whereas the same number of votes gets the Conservatives 3 SeatsPersonally I think that is grossly unfair but heigh ho what the F... do I know. I should not even be entitled to a vote iyoIf as you state the system was corrupt and favoured a particular party to the extent you describe Wolfie, then don't you think that the Labour party had sufficient time and reason to balance it more as you suggest ? The Boundaries Commission deals with this side of it does it not , couldn't the Govt. of the day have asked them to look at the discrepancies that you claim are all so evident ? Jeez they had more than enough time didn't they ?
Quote from: \"redwine\" post=222118Hoola, I think it's more to do with the \"Road to Damascus like conversion\"The about face from crofty has been so swift that I'm convinced the VSC have him holed up somewhere and an imposter is posing as himCome on VSC tell us what you have done with the real croftyLet's just say what remains has helped pay towards the \"red ink\" on the JR Flag you'll see tomorrow...
Hoola, I think it's more to do with the \"Road to Damascus like conversion\"The about face from crofty has been so swift that I'm convinced the VSC have him holed up somewhere and an imposter is posing as himCome on VSC tell us what you have done with the real crofty
However were you around when Mrs Thatcher decided to totally ruin the Mining industry which in turn led to .... which led to .... which led to ... where we are today ?
Quote from: \"DONNYWOLF\" post=222188However were you around when Mrs Thatcher decided to totally ruin the Mining industry which in turn led to .... which led to .... which led to ... where we are today ?Think you need to have a look again at who closed down the majority of the mines.
Quote from: \"hoolahoop\" post=222193Quote from: \"DONNYWOLF\" post=222188Quote from: \"mjdgreg\" post=222167As far as the Labour/Tory argument goes I am an unabashed Labour Party hater. They have totally ruined the country and anyone who is thick enough to blame the Tories who are only trying to sort out the horrendous mess they were left should never be allowed to vote ever again.This topic is far too big NOT to have a dedicated threadMinds immesurably superior to mine can then tell you why THEY think you are wrongPersonally each colour Govt blames the previous lot and you seem to have gone along with that view with the phrase \" they have totally ruined the Country \"However were you around when Mrs Thatcher decided to totally ruin the Mining industry which in turn led to .... which led to .... which led to ... where we are today ?As for suggesting that people have to be of a certain intelligence to be allowed to vote - I come from a more serious angle and would wish EACH VOTE cast JUST to be of equal weight. Some Tory seats are won with 11 or 12 thousand votes and (I cant be bothered to look it up) some Labour Seats are won with 36000 votes (Hemsworth and Goole and Thorne used to be higher even than that) so 36000 gets Labour 1 Seat whereas the same number of votes gets the Conservatives 3 SeatsPersonally I think that is grossly unfair but heigh ho what the F... do I know. I should not even be entitled to a vote iyoIf as you state the system was corrupt and favoured a particular party to the extent you describe Wolfie, then don't you think that the Labour party had sufficient time and reason to balance it more as you suggest ? The Boundaries Commission deals with this side of it does it not , couldn't the Govt. of the day have asked them to look at the discrepancies that you claim are all so evident ? Jeez they had more than enough time didn't they ?I agree ... that is my point really ...Politics is corrupt and both Labour and Conservative BOTH \"benefit\" from first past the post so maintaining the Status quo suits them both even given that they may be out of power now and againThere have been landslides using this system - massive majorities in Parliament for a Party getting just 42% of the total vote. So we got an extremeist Government when only 42 out of 100 voted for them and 58 out of every 100 voted against them ... BARKING MADI agree with Jonnydog ... dump this on Off topic
Quote from: \"ditch_drfc\" post=222201Quote from: \"DONNYWOLF\" post=222188However were you around when Mrs Thatcher decided to totally ruin the Mining industry which in turn led to .... which led to .... which led to ... where we are today ?Think you need to have a look again at who closed down the majority of the mines.Thinking the same mesen , I can't remember many of any mines being closed down during her time at the top. Strange how these 'urban myths' come about and become deeply entrenched . Quite simply Thatcher did NOT close all the mines, yes she took on a moron who was blindly followed by some but not all miners.
yes she took on a moron who was blindly followed by some but not all miners.
I think we all need to remember the 1970-74 Conservative Government under Ted Heath, the unions decided that they would demand pay rise after pay rise and the UK was so low on coal supplies that many of you will remember Ted Heath imposing that 3 day week on your television sets. This ultimately lead to Heath saying \"Who Governs Britain?\" and the Voting public said \"Not you Ted\".The Education secretary of that time was Margaret Thatcher, and she was dubbed Milk Snatcher after her policy to stop milk for certain ages of primary school children. She ultimately would not let that drop that the government was brought down by what she described as \"terrorists demands\" in her speech some years later in Brighton when the hotel was bombed hours earlier.Thatcher was smart in that the UK had just found oil on the shores of Scotland, and coal supplies were much more than that under Heath in that she could afford (only just) to let the miners strike again, it was one battle she would not lose, and Scargill knew this would require the backing of all miners which he why he called a strike without asking the members to vote.The British people were in truth fed up of this saga, and many were relieved when Thatcher 'won', what brought about this 'myth' is the scenes you all witnessed on the evening news with rioting between ordinary working class men and police officers, she didn't help her self by calling these people criminals when they were only trying to do what is best for their family.As for Scargill, he was a very good public speaker, but taking in mind that he has recently sued the NUM over a legal dispute shows you where his heart his. He named his office in Barnsley King Arthur's castle and had a portrait of himself Stallin like on the back of the wagon issuing to follow him. As good as he was speaking he underestimated Thatcher and that made her victory that much sweeter.
Quote from: \"Mr1Croft\" post=222221I think we all need to remember the 1970-74 Conservative Government under Ted Heath, the unions decided that they would demand pay rise after pay rise and the UK was so low on coal supplies that many of you will remember Ted Heath imposing that 3 day week on your television sets. This ultimately lead to Heath saying \"Who Governs Britain?\" and the Voting public said \"Not you Ted\".The Education secretary of that time was Margaret Thatcher, and she was dubbed Milk Snatcher after her policy to stop milk for certain ages of primary school children. She ultimately would not let that drop that the government was brought down by what she described as \"terrorists demands\" in her speech some years later in Brighton when the hotel was bombed hours earlier.Thatcher was smart in that the UK had just found oil on the shores of Scotland, and coal supplies were much more than that under Heath in that she could afford (only just) to let the miners strike again, it was one battle she would not lose, and Scargill knew this would require the backing of all miners which he why he called a strike without asking the members to vote.The British people were in truth fed up of this saga, and many were relieved when Thatcher 'won', what brought about this 'myth' is the scenes you all witnessed on the evening news with rioting between ordinary working class men and police officers, she didn't help her self by calling these people criminals when they were only trying to do what is best for their family.As for Scargill, he was a very good public speaker, but taking in mind that he has recently sued the NUM over a legal dispute shows you where his heart his. He named his office in Barnsley King Arthur's castle and had a portrait of himself Stallin like on the back of the wagon issuing to follow him. As good as he was speaking he underestimated Thatcher and that made her victory that much sweeter.Politics from the text book seldom reflect the realities of the situation at the time, we were in an unofficial state of marshall law in Yorkshire during the strike, people were prevented from travelling out of Yorkshire at a checkpoint just the other side of Bawtry, I know this for a fact, I was prevented from going fishing on the Trent by the militia masquerading as police officers, ask one of your uncles Lee, TC, he was in the same car! So who was the Soviet style leader? Scargill? or Thatcher?