Fingers crossed tomorrow.

[The L J Monk]

I've stumbled upon some information from Congressional Budget Office, lord knows what it means, but I'll see what you think:

It seems to state that Obama has cut the deficit by $312 billion over his term, and by $200 billion in the last year alone.
His budget for the next four years would reduce this deficit by a further $500 billion.
Also, that Bush fella you mentioned, apparently he turned a $200 billion surplus into a $400 billion deficit by the end of his first term, and a $1.2 trillion deficit by the end of his second term.

On top of this, the Wall Street Journal states that Obama's growth in federal spending is the lowest of any President in the last 60 years.

Interesting stuff.

[phllvslc]

Let's all blame Bush! There's something original.

He has had four years.  Four years of his own policies and his own ideas.  Two years with majorities in both the House and Senate. And what? A failed stimulus and the highly unpopular Obamacare.

Time to face the fact that Obama has failed.

Go on then spadger. I'll bite.

1) I guess you've seen how rapidly GDP bounced back into growth and unemployment stopped its stratospheric rise as the stimulus package kicked in from late 09? And how growth tailed off and unemployment stopped falling after the Republicans took control of the House and pushed through spending cuts?

2) Since you moved to the States, you're probably better placed to answer this than I am. Do they have a different definition of "highly unpopular" over there than the one I am used to? See, I've just seen some polling data that says 45% of Americans want to repeal Obamacare and 47% want to keep it.

You see, I have just come across some data related to Obamacare's favourability.  It shows that the average poll shows 7.2% more Americans oppose Obamacare.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html#polls

See, on average, it hasn't actually been more popular since at least 2010.

And also, on the unemployment figures...more states have higher unemployment, or seen no decrease in overall percentage between January 2009 and September 2012.

[phllvslc]

I've stumbled upon some information from Congressional Budget Office, lord knows what it means, but I'll see what you think:

It seems to state that Obama has cut the deficit by $312 billion over his term, and by $200 billion in the last year alone.
His budget for the next four years would reduce this deficit by a further $500 billion.
Also, that Bush fella you mentioned, apparently he turned a $200 billion surplus into a $400 billion deficit by the end of his first term, and a $1.2 trillion deficit by the end of his second term.

On top of this, the Wall Street Journal states that Obama's growth in federal spending is the lowest of any President in the last 60 years.

Interesting stuff.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57400369-503544/national-debt-has-increased-more-under-obama-than-under-bush/

I don't think I need to say anything else.

[The L J Monk]

I don't think I need to say anything else.

I think I do though.

You are confusing debt and deficit.

You said this Mitt chap wants to reduce the deficit. The numbers suggest this is what Obama is already doing.

[Mr1Croft]

I'm with BST here, I don't know how Romney is even in with a shout. Everything about him tells me he is the kind of man that would make you poorer so he becomes richer and he would smile while doing so. He comes across as an old fashion right winger, who has prejudice values and doesn't believe in anything that doesn't grow his personal wealth. A commander of capitalism at its most unpredictable peak where Millionaires like him still manage to get richer during crisis. I honestly believe he would like to see 98% of Americans decline in wealth while his and the other top 2% grows.


I bet George Osbourne is already booking his flight tickets to meet him if he gets in office...

[Mr1Croft]

Obama needs 13 more electoral votes to win, and that is before Ohio, Florida and Virginia have even been called.

Another case where the polls have been torn apart at an election.

[Mr1Croft]

4:22:

Obama wins after Ohio is called.

After 46 of 51 states called:

Obama: 275
Romney:203

270 electoral votes is the winning margin.

What is interesting is that Obama only won 20 minutes later than the 2008 election which was an expected Democrat victory whereas no-one could call this.

Also Romney has won so far 24 states (Obama 22) and he also has 49.9% of the vote of the national scoreboard, to Obama's 48.6% (other 1.4%) which means that more people are voting Romney but the votes aren't coming from states he needed.

[Mr1Croft]

4:44

House of Senates close to another victory for Obama, he needs 2 more seats to win.

House of Representatives is a different story. Republicans have 182 and Democrats have 130 (218 to win)

It may not be a clean sweep but it looks set to be a big big night for Obama and the US...

[BillyStubbsTears]

Excellent. That's a step in the right direction.

Now. Next. Mrs Merkel 2013. Tick, tock.

[mjdgreg]

I don't think I need to say anything else.

You're wasting your time debating with all these hard-core lefties. They aren't happy unless the politicians are spending money they haven't got as long as they don't have to pick up the bill. They're quite happy for their children and their children's children to pay the bill and have a worse standard of living than they currently enjoy.

[The Red Baron]

Excellent. That's a step in the right direction.

Now. Next. Mrs Merkel 2013. Tick, tock.

Knowing that you're a Europhile, I think you should be careful what you wish for. A defeat for Mrs Merkel will almost certainly herald the end of the Euro as we know it, because if she loses next year it will be because the Germans have had enough of baling out the Club Med countries.

[Mr1Croft]

I don't think I need to say anything else.

You're wasting your time debating with all these hard-core lefties. They aren't happy unless the politicians are spending money they haven't got as long as they don't have to pick up the bill. They're quite happy for their children and their children's children to pay the bill and have a worse standard of living than they currently enjoy.

I'm confused Mick, you are more than happy at what the British Government are doing in tackling the deficit but continuing to borrow, but borrowing less, but you can't justify Obama doing that?

Besides there is a underlying difference between the UK and the US economy and that is that the US are a global hegemon. Despite being trillions of US dollars in debt more and more people still continue to borrow from the US, there are more reserves in US dollars than any other currency in the world. The US is still the most predominant country in the world and no matter how bad they are financially they will always have the support of the global markets.

The US presidency is the most powerful office on the planet. The man who wins is not only commander and chief with access to the "big red button" but they are the leader of the free world. Did you honestly believe that the leader we need right now is Mitt Romney?

[mjdgreg]

I'm confused mjdgreg, you are more than happy at what the British Government are doing in tackling the deficit but continuing to borrow, but borrowing less, but you can't justify Obama doing that?

I'm not happy with what the Government are doing. They're borrowing far too much. I'd cut much harder and faster and dramatically cut taxes. They are just much better than the Labour alternative.

[hoolahoop]

Great win for Obama , I know it was only 2-1 and I'm still shattered from this morning. 

Mitt Romney quite frankly would have been scary as hell in the White House.

[mjdgreg]

Let's all ignore the Fiscal Cliff.

[The L J Monk]

Very odd response from Republican Donald Trump. Calling for: a revolution; a march on Washington; reform of the voting system, etc, etc...based on the premise that Romney romped home with the popular vote.

Unfortunately Obama took this as well, by nearly 3 million. Presumably Trump will come out now and say the system is fine?

[Filo]

Could our very own Mick be Donald Trump?

[MachoMadness]

I doubt people like Trump and Mick bother with such trifling details as facts and votes. Old Don is still banging on about Obama not being American, so it seems only natural that he doesn't think getting the most votes entitles him to be president either.

[mjdgreg]

The only reason Obama won is because he has convinced the poorest half of America that he will keep on spending money he hasn't got so they don't have to take responsibility for their own lives. They will be in a for a shock when the money runs out and has to be paid back.

[bobjimwilly]

The only reason Obama won is because he has convinced the poorest half of America that he will keep on spending money he hasn't got so they don't have to take responsibility for their own lives. They will be in a for a shock when the money runs out and has to be paid back.

You really don't have a clue what you are talking about.

[mjdgreg]

You really don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Sounds to me that you're the one that is completely unaware of the fiscal cliff. Typical leftie. Not bothered about how things are paid for.

[The L J Monk]

What I've found puzzling is how Romney received support for his deficit reduction plans...when he didn't actually reveal what his plans were. Details were certainly conspicuous by their absence.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Obama won because he's not as much of a clown as Romney, better candidates would have beaten Obama who has some of the wrong ideas regarding spending etc IMO.  However, having spent time working in Florida, anyone who even tries to reform the pure discrimination that occurs in the States compared to our country is a better option.  We're 10 times as far ahead on the equality stakes than the US is.

[The L J Monk]

Certainly a Republican candidate who had the support of the whole of his own party would have made for a much closer race.

[phllvslc]

Gas has gone up fifty cents and the Dow has already fallen 300 points.  A 'great' start to the next four years.

[hoolahoop]

Gas has gone up fifty cents and the Dow has already fallen 300 points.  A 'great' start to the next four years.

Really ....a full 50 cents, Jeez that's devastating!! Millions without light, fuel and heat still and you use that as an argument . As for the DOW, that's a standard reaction to a left/centre win in the USA, call it the revenge of the rich if you like..........it will settle down again to normal levels soon enough.
Sorry it was clear that Romney hadn't got a clue at least to the majority of Europeans.
Clearly your party of choice will have to change it's ways pronto if it's to be ever electable again.

[Mr1Croft]

[/b]The only reason Obama won is because he has convinced the poorest half of America[/b] that he will keep on spending money he hasn't got so they don't have to take responsibility for their own lives. They will be in a for a shock when the money runs out and has to be paid back.

You have hit the nail on the head, but it wasn't the poorest HALF he tried to convince it was those at the bottom at the food chain so to speak. As you can see from the charts below there is a huge difference in the levels of wealth distribution, and the elections campaigns were centralized around this idea as far as Romney was convinced. Being in the top 35% of Net Wealth himself he only had to talk business and show his initiative and ideas have worked in the past with struggling business. As far as he concerned if he could reach out to those who owned the most of the wealth their support (mainly financial) would pay for his campaign and put him in the white house.

Where it all went pear shaped was when he never really realized that in the US, as far as any scholars or academics are concerned when it comes to US Wealth and Power, is that it is always the top 1% against everybody else. Obama won the 2008 election off the back of reaching out to those in the bottom 80% (who share the least wealth) and he carried it off to great effect this year too. Romney did convince the top 50% of wealth that he was the right man, the problem is that 50% of the wealth in the US is a very small minority of voters, with most being in the bottom 80%. If you are reaching out to 80% of the electorate and your opponent is reaching out to only 5% you have to fancy your chances. It looks like the swing voters moved to Romney in the end and that still didn't stop Obama storming home. The rich put on a good show to make the rest of the world (and the swing voters) think that Obama was close to losing but as we saw on Election night even their money couldn't buy them the power they wanted.



People talk about this and say it isn't a big victory for Obama, but I disagree. This is a huge result not only for US politics but global economics and I expect the next 4 years to see balance restored.

Mick: Where has Obama pledged to spend more? He has to keep borrowing, but he is doing less and less each year, and that is the way to go about it. Your making it out as if you can just stop borrowing tomorrow, spend what you have left and if you haven't got enough left to spend on education or the armed forces or healthcare then tough.

[The Red Baron]

Gas has gone up fifty cents and the Dow has already fallen 300 points.  A 'great' start to the next four years.

Really ....a full 50 cents, Jeez that's devastating!! Millions without light, fuel and heat still and you use that as an argument . As for the DOW, that's a standard reaction to a left/centre win in the USA, call it the revenge of the rich if you like..........it will settle down again to normal levels soon enough.
Sorry it was clear that Romney hadn't got a clue at least to the majority of Europeans.
Clearly your party of choice will have to change it's ways pronto if it's to be ever electable again.

Must admit I was surprised by the fall in the Dow as I thought the markets would have "priced in" an Obama victory. Though it may be reacting to the possibility (likelihood) of deadlock over the Federal Budget following the results in the Senate and the House.