Mr Russell drops a b*ll*ck

[The Red Baron]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20866989

A touch of the Graham Polls. He'll probably get suspended for this one. Shame he didn't for that apalling display in the Portsmouth game.

[MachoMadness]

Dave Jones came across as a prize t**t in his interview. Trying to make an obvious clanger about how his side were being victimised yet again. I never had an opinion on Jones one way or the other, but some of his comments this season make me think he's losing his marbles. Claiming to be a victim of a "form of racism" at the Leeds game, his constant ranting and answering question-with-a-question interviews...

[CusworthRovers]

Heard the drama on the way to the game on Radio Sheffield.

On the way back I heard Sir Alex bemoaning the heavy rain and suggesting RVP could nearly have drowned

[Donnywolf]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20866989

A touch of the Graham Polls. He'll probably get suspended for this one. Shame he didn't for that apalling display in the Portsmouth game.

The bloke is obviously NOT up to the job

All hinged on him booking the Player first time round for a dive but writing a different Players name in his records ..... so ......

whatever happened to Referees looking at a Players name on the back of his shirt - or the Number on Shirt or Shorts or .... and this is a bit extreme I grant you - the Ref asking the Player his name !

[The Red Baron]

Wonder if the FA will give JR his fine back now?

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/football/doncaster/doncaster-rovers-3-portsmouth-4-ryan-calls-for-referee-to-be-axed-as-rovers-go-down-1-4450626

He was proved right, though!

[Donnywolf]

Probably NOT !

Wonder if the assessor yesterday was an ex Tennis Pro again ? It begs the question who assesses the assessors ?

Harry Gration did a right number on him after the Pompey game so I dropped him an e-mail to remind him that his least favourite Ref has been at it again

I repeat from above ... DONT they take names any more as this clown confessed to writing down the Number 7 instead of 24 for the initial Booking.

Unbeliveable

[mutleyrover]

Nice one DonnyWolf.

I was reading the reports on it yesterday and there was no mention of his previous incompetence which got JR into trouble when all he said was absolutely spot on.  I think the two instances should be linked, just as the media did with Stuart Atwell when he made a few errors.

Also, maybe an apology is now due to JR from the FA, admitting that this guy is not up to officiating at Football league level.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I saw the title of this post and expected it to contain a video of a French mime act.

Like Monsieur Hulot Goes on Holiday
Or Monsieur Poo-poo Goes to the Lavatory
Or Monsieur Tati Has a J. Arthur

(Admittedly those last two are only available from specialist interest websites.)

[MachoMadness]

I can't understand how he's done it though. I've watched it a couple of times, I cannot see where the ref's cocked up. The only similarity Antonio and Elan have is that they're both black. Elan goes down, the ref gets the book out, then Antonio walks up to him and has a word, then walks off. I can only imagine the ref saw a black bloke walking away from him and assumed it was the same bloke who'd dived, so booked Antonio without thinking. He is incompetent in the extreme, and clearly struggles to keep his concentration on the game for 90 minutes. I thought handing Pompey 4 goals last season was the worst we'd see, but how 4 officials between them can miss this is just staggering.

[FuzzyDuck]

I actually saw this error live at a Winti game last season.  One of their strikers was booked for back-chat in the first half before receiving a second yellow for a foul in the second.  The visitors then subbed him quick before the ref noticed his mistake 

I went apoplectic I was yelling at the ref; yelling at the linesman...yelling at anyone who got within 10 yards of me.  After the game, the refs always have a pizza with club officials in the bar.  I was sat on a bar-stool singing "Zwei Gelb heisst ein Rot, ich meine" (two yellows means a red, I think) which fitted nicely to Go West by the Pet Shop Boys.  I was eventually badly told off by the missus and removed from the bar before I got chucked out.

The weird thing was, I was the only bugger who noticed!  No fans around me had realized and just shrugged their shoulders when I explained.  Nothing in match reports - nothing in the press.   

What can I say?  Perhaps I found a cultural divide 

[Donnywolf]

Nice one DonnyWolf.

I was reading the reports on it yesterday and there was no mention of his previous incompetence which got JR into trouble when all he said was absolutely spot on.  I think the two instances should be linked, just as the media did with Stuart Atwell when he made a few errors.

Also, maybe an apology is now due to JR from the FA, admitting that this guy is not up to officiating at Football league level.

I may have been hasty because according to that paragon of virtue KITSON Mr Russell was right at the Keepmoat with every decision in Rovers v Pompey

http://www.chichester.co.uk/sport/football/pompey-latest/kitson-reckons-under-fire-ref-got-decisions-spot-on-1-3738278

[Donnywolf]

Also ... someone will remember what did Russell do the very mext game he reffed after us V Pompey. It is escaping me at the moment ?

Sure it was a Div 1 game but that apart I cant remember

[RedJ]

massive cockup in Crawley game, forgot what though, either them or Port Vale

[benaldo]

Let's think about the real life of a ref at top level - ie our level and up.

Fancy going about your normal reffing business, when a decision of yours means two or three half-wits swear at you to your face in an aggressive manner? IF it was me, or maybe you, you'd want to send them off, but you would never because you know that sending someone like say, Rooney, off for spitting the word c*(t in your face would mean you'd be reffing in the conference for the rest of your career.

And that, my friends, is the reason why football is becoming crapper and crapper. Officials are scared of being in charge of a football match. Forget the odd cock-up they all sometimes make and forget the odd genuinely bad ref. What is really hampering modern football is the complete lack of respect they have from 22 dim-witted young rich men every saturday afternoon and the knock on effect that has on quick thinking psychological decisions.

Can you imagine a rugby match where a couple of players surround the ref and grit their teeth while telling him he's a f-ing c*&t? No? That's because it hardly ever, ever, happens. Why? Because the refs know they don't have to put up with it, the managers don't have the power to influence their careers (ie ferguson) and they know they can do something about it. OK, so rugby is a sport broadly played by more intelligent people than football on the whole, but a ref is a ref and like it or not they control the game and should demand some basic respect - like not being sworn at by a thick young man who should thank his lucky stars he's not cleaning wheelie bins on a council estate.....

Let's face it, rugby has a better standard of refs. Why? Because they aren't carrying the fear every game that some moron is going to give them some horrific verbal abuse and attempt to cheat his way through the afternoon by falling over.... a lot. Football is becoming the sport for the idiot - players, managers, and fans. It shouldn't, and doesn't have to, be like this.

[Donnywolf]

massive cockup in Crawley game, forgot what though, either them or Port Vale

Three parts right RJ

I believe it was Crawley and I believe Hereford (White and Black like Port Vale) which ended 0-3.

I am sure it had something to do with one of the Goalkeepers but could be wrong on that It was a huge cock up and I will search our Forum because we had a defend JR Thread going at the time

[Donnywolf]

Got it / or rather them

http://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=232827.msg239239#msg239239

http://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=232835.msg239310#msg239310

[Dutch Uncle]

Let's think about the real life of a ref at top level - ie our level and up.

Fancy going about your normal reffing business, when a decision of yours means two or three half-wits swear at you to your face in an aggressive manner? IF it was me, or maybe you, you'd want to send them off, but you would never because you know that sending someone like say, Rooney, off for spitting the word c*(t in your face would mean you'd be reffing in the conference for the rest of your career.

And that, my friends, is the reason why football is becoming crapper and crapper. Officials are scared of being in charge of a football match. Forget the odd cock-up they all sometimes make and forget the odd genuinely bad ref. What is really hampering modern football is the complete lack of respect they have from 22 dim-witted young rich men every saturday afternoon and the knock on effect that has on quick thinking psychological decisions.

Can you imagine a rugby match where a couple of players surround the ref and grit their teeth while telling him he's a f-ing c*&t? No? That's because it hardly ever, ever, happens. Why? Because the refs know they don't have to put up with it, the managers don't have the power to influence their careers (ie ferguson) and they know they can do something about it. OK, so rugby is a sport broadly played by more intelligent people than football on the whole, but a ref is a ref and like it or not they control the game and should demand some basic respect - like not being sworn at by a thick young man who should thank his lucky stars he's not cleaning wheelie bins on a council estate.....

Let's face it, rugby has a better standard of refs. Why? Because they aren't carrying the fear every game that some moron is going to give them some horrific verbal abuse and attempt to cheat his way through the afternoon by falling over.... a lot. Football is becoming the sport for the idiot - players, managers, and fans. It shouldn't, and doesn't have to, be like this.

Good post Benaldo and I would like to add a few comments

These overpaid primadonnas are, like it or not, also role models for the young. Over here in Holland we had just had a dreadful tragedy of a linesman flagging a junior (under 16) amateur match and being assaulted and kicked in the head by a group of players from one side after the match. The man concerned, a 41 year old volunteer, was initially OK, went to a post match meeting, did not wish to report the incident to the police (there were potential racist overtones), but a few hours later he collapsed and died. The whole country is now soul searching and trying to come to terms with the levels of lack of respect in all walks of life.

As a former top referee in a different sport (squash) I have been involved in discussions and rule reviews relating to dealing with bad behaviour by players, and the role and position of referees. We came to the conclusion that the referee needed a full range of sanctions and penalties. At the time immediate disqualification was the only sanction a squash referee had, and players in front of a packed gallery of paying spectators knew  the referee was unlikely to abort the whole match. Intermediate more credible sanctions (point against, game against) were introduced. This leads me to the idea of a sin-bin in football. If a player knew arguing or crowding a ref brought automatic 10 or 15 minutes sin-bin it would happen less, certainly if 3-4 players could be potentially simultaneously sin-binned.

Something needs to be done and very soon IMHO.         

Edit: This doesn't mean there are no poor referees, or no referee having a bad day - it hopefully would reduce pressure and intimidation and allow more of a referee's attention to go to basic decision making.

[The Red Baron]

Also ... someone will remember what did Russell do the very mext game he reffed after us V Pompey. It is escaping me at the moment ?

Sure it was a Div 1 game but that apart I cant remember

It was Tranmere v Hartlepool and he almost managed to send off the wrong player (a Tranmere defender rather than the goalkeeper who committed a DOGSO foul). On that occasion the other officials saved his bacon by telling him he'd shown the red to the wrong man.

[Chris Black come back]

Let's think about the real life of a ref at top level - ie our level and up.

Fancy going about your normal reffing business, when a decision of yours means two or three half-wits swear at you to your face in an aggressive manner? IF it was me, or maybe you, you'd want to send them off, but you would never because you know that sending someone like say, Rooney, off for spitting the word c*(t in your face would mean you'd be reffing in the conference for the rest of your career.

And that, my friends, is the reason why football is becoming crapper and crapper. Officials are scared of being in charge of a football match. Forget the odd cock-up they all sometimes make and forget the odd genuinely bad ref. What is really hampering modern football is the complete lack of respect they have from 22 dim-witted young rich men every saturday afternoon and the knock on effect that has on quick thinking psychological decisions.

Can you imagine a rugby match where a couple of players surround the ref and grit their teeth while telling him he's a f-ing c*&t? No? That's because it hardly ever, ever, happens. Why? Because the refs know they don't have to put up with it, the managers don't have the power to influence their careers (ie ferguson) and they know they can do something about it. OK, so rugby is a sport broadly played by more intelligent people than football on the whole, but a ref is a ref and like it or not they control the game and should demand some basic respect - like not being sworn at by a thick young man who should thank his lucky stars he's not cleaning wheelie bins on a council estate.....

Let's face it, rugby has a better standard of refs. Why? Because they aren't carrying the fear every game that some moron is going to give them some horrific verbal abuse and attempt to cheat his way through the afternoon by falling over.... a lot. Football is becoming the sport for the idiot - players, managers, and fans. It shouldn't, and doesn't have to, be like this.

Good post Benaldo and I would like to add a few comments

These overpaid primadonnas are, like it or not, also role models for the young. Over here in Holland we had just had a dreadful tragedy of a linesman flagging a junior (under 16) amateur match and being assaulted and kicked in the head by a group of players from one side after the match. The man concerned, a 41 year old volunteer, was initially OK, went to a post match meeting, did not wish to report the incident to the police (there were potential racist overtones), but a few hours later he collapsed and died. The whole country is now soul searching and trying to come to terms with the levels of lack of respect in all walks of life.

As a former top referee in a different sport (squash) I have been involved in discussions and rule reviews relating to dealing with bad behaviour by players, and the role and position of referees. We came to the conclusion that the referee needed a full range of sanctions and penalties. At the time immediate disqualification was the only sanction a squash referee had, and players in front of a packed gallery of paying spectators knew  the referee was unlikely to abort the whole match. Intermediate more credible sanctions (point against, game against) were introduced. This leads me to the idea of a sin-bin in football. If a player knew arguing or crowding a ref brought automatic 10 or 15 minutes sin-bin it would happen less, certainly if 3-4 players could be potentially simultaneously sin-binned.

Something needs to be done and very soon IMHO.         

Edit: This doesn't mean there are no poor referees, or no referee having a bad day - it hopefully would reduce pressure and intimidation and allow more of a referee's attention to go to basic decision making.

Slightly off topic - but what on earth does a ref do in a squash game?

[Dutch Uncle]

Hi CBCB

In important squash matches there are usually a referee and a marker. The marker has the easier job of keeping the score and calling if the ball goes out, hits the tin, or bounces twice etc. The referee has to make all decisions when one player appears to impede the other from reaching the ball. This can be extremely difficult with judging what shots are reachable, whether a very clever player is deliberately slightly impeding the other, whether a player had the chance of playing a winning shot or not. Then there are other factors like whether a player is wasting time, either to get his breath back or simply to put an opponent out of his rhythm. There can sometimes be unnecessary physical contact and/or intimidation, appeals on marker's calls, and in some cases external events such as if a court floor is slippery with sweat etc. With top players who know exactly what they are doing and at a very high speed it can be very difficult and many calls have to be instinctive. Consistency is absolutely key, as is gaining and keeping players' respect. Unlike a football referee no physical running around is involved, and usually you have a good view.

By the way I haven't refereed for about 20 years now, but at one stage I was the chief referee in the Netherlands and also responsible referees' training and assessment.         

[BobG]

Bloody hell Brian! You can't have been a ref all that long then can you?! You were still wiping the floor with all and sundry on the court 20 years ago too surely? And you weren't a ref last time I saw you do that...

No. That's wrong. Now I think about it I have a vague memory of you tootling off to Munchen to ref a match there. Or did I just make that up?

Cheers

BobG

[Dutch Uncle]

Ah Bob you flatterer 

Difficult to believe that it is now coming up 30 years since I gave up all the level of training to play as well as I could and started on refereeing and committee work. Of course I still played some tournaments etc, but certainly not as seriously. Then ca about 20 years ago the true wonder of parenthood, as you yourself have been blessed to experience, meant I gladly cut out all the committee/refereeing as well. I suppose as well as the time put in, being out of pocket to be screamed at by young squash players didn't seem like a good deal. Good job professional football referees get paid.

My point about Sin-Bins is serious though. Maybe 3 colour of cards - Yellow (as now), Orange (=Yellow + sin-bin) and Red       

[The Red Baron]

I think sin-bins would change the whole nature of football. I'm not against an experiment with the use of them, but I could see quite a lot of games being spoiled by sin-binnings.

Referees would benefit from having more backing from the authorities (the recent Mike Dean vs Fergie spat being a classic example of where it is clear that the referee isn't going to get much support.) The authorities should also embrace video technology and use it for retrospective action as well as to give assistance to the officials on the field.

Incidentally, as more money has come into rugby union it is noticeable that officials are being criticised more often by coaches. The key tool that rugby refs have that helps them maintain discipline on the field is the ability to advance penalties for dissent- but as rugby is much more of a game of possession and territory than football, the same ability wouldn't help football refs as much.

[Dutch Uncle]

Some very good points TRB, and certainly I agree with use of video technology, both at the time to help decision making, and also retrospectively for missed foul play/behaviour/simulation issues - i.e. cards and suspensions. I don't see ever changing a score (e.g replay shows ball did cross line) after a match has finished.

And of course who could disagree with Refs having maximum support from the authorities - although they also ought to be able to admit genuine mistakes as well.

I would like to see a sin-bin experiment - maybe in the FA or FL Cup. I would be hoping for longer term benefits of improved habits in behaviour and things like simulation - hopefully it wouldn't take too many teams losing multiple players for 10 minutes before everyone changed their approach.

[IDM]

I can see how the ref made this mistake, the player who should have been cautioned moved away before he ref had seen his name and number on the shirt, and the second player who had approached the ref had also turned away, so the ref noted that name and number.  OK he should have been more observant, but so also should have been the other officials who could and should have notified the ref straight away.

[FuzzyDuck]

Sin bins would certainly be worth an experiment.

I also don't understand the reluctance FIFA have for video evidence.  Every match should be reviewed in my opinion.  Cards could be rescinded if overly harsh or awarded in cases where the ref missed something or got it wrong. 

The other thing that I'd like  to see, I sadly can't see happening.  The Rooneys, Ronaldos and  Ballacellis of this world make too much money and feel they can behave as they please.  It wouldn't happen if they thought there was a chance of them losing their income.

This could be done by using a charge of cheating (defined as acts deliberately aimed at deceiving the referee) and giving the charge exponentially increasing penalties (first offence, 3 game ban, 2nd - 6, 3rd - 12 etc).  Persistent cheats would quickly be looking a a season's ban or more, making them worthless on the transfer market.

It won't happen though because its attacking the people who bring money into the game.  It would also need to be a worldwide initiative.

FIFA need to grow some balls - something that not going to happen for a very long time