Ipswich Away - Revised Kick Off

[Dagenham Rover]

When would I like you to? Why would I want you to do that? As I mentioned earlier it is up to the people who feel passionately about an issue to commemorate it. As I also mentioned earlier you were incorrect in saying that Armistice Day remembers all service personal and that that WWI was the first time we had mass casualties in conflict.

I didn't say WW1 was the first time we had mass casualties, what I said was:

WW1 was the first time we put a huge proportion of our population in uniform

WW1 was the first time we raised a huge army as opposed to a small professional one, it was the first time many families had any contact with the Army.

We had 886,939 killed and 1,663,435 wounded in WW1, a period of just under 5 years , against 311,806 dead during the Napoleonic wars over a period of almost 13.

Back to the topic at hand; people should have the choice how they commemorate / remember such matters but, IMO, grief is a personal matter and shouldn't be "forced" on others.

We had 886,939 killed and 1,663,435 wounded in WW1, a period of just under 5 years , against 311,806 dead during the Napoleonic wars over a period of almost 13.

Total difference in the weaponry, although I agree WW1 was probably the first time mass conscription was introduced (not takeing into account the "Kings Shilling" and our friends in the Navy

people should have the choice how they commemorate / remember such matters but, IMO, grief is a personal matter and shouldn't be "forced" on others.

Yep I agree, however I would say your perspective would change if you had been in the forces and fought in a war

[BigColSutherland]

Yes, apart from the 9 years you served in the Light Infantry / Rifles and the 2 operational tours of Iraq I did, including the initial invasion of Iraq.

[Dagenham Rover]

Fair does fella but with that I really would have thought you would have a slightly different attitude, each to there own though

[Dagenham Rover]

Fair does fella but with that I really would have thought you would have a slightly different attitude, each to there own though

Because I've been in the army I shouldn't feel that people should have the freedom to commemorate things as they see fit?

You do realise I was in the British Army, not the North Korean, right? 

Thats basically what I was saying however I would have thought that having served in the British Forces you might have had a slightly different perspective to remembering the fallen especially when you look at your Regiments history and Colours

[Dagenham Rover]

Fair does fella but with that I really would have thought you would have a slightly different attitude, each to there own though

Because I've been in the army I shouldn't feel that people should have the freedom to commemorate things as they see fit?

You do realise I was in the British Army, not the North Korean, right? 

Thats basically what I was saying however I would have thought that having served in the British Forces you might have had a slightly different perspective to remembering the fallen especially when you look at your Regiments history and Colours

I've no problem if people choose not to observe the minutes silence on 11/11, we fought wars to give people that freedom.

Anyway, the Rifles don't have Colours.  ;)

Yep

and

I might just about give you that one but you know what I mean 

[RedJ]

Fair does fella but with that I really would have thought you would have a slightly different attitude, each to there own though

Because I've been in the army I shouldn't feel that people should have the freedom to commemorate things as they see fit?

You do realise I was in the British Army, not the North Korean, right? 

Thats basically what I was saying however I would have thought that having served in the British Forces you might have had a slightly different perspective to remembering the fallen especially when you look at your Regiments history and Colours

I've no problem if people choose not to observe the minutes silence on 11/11, we fought wars to give people that freedom.

Anyway, the Rifles don't have Colours. 

They've got see through guns now?

[wilts rover]

Sad you have my admiration for serving but I do find your attitude quite strange. So you dont think we should ever have started remembering Armistace Day as a national event, just let families grieve on their own?

[German Rover]

No Wilts, I feel that people shouldn't be forced into commemorating things. If they don't want to observe 11/11 or wear a poppy that's their decision, as long as they don't interfere with those that do wish to remember I have no problem.
 

I'm currently serving and agree completely with this. The recent examples where people have been hounded for not wearing poppies on TV, or stitched onto their shirts is bang out of order.

[Sad-Rovers]

Aye, Poppy Nazi-ism gets on my tits too German Rover.

[hoolahoop]

No Wilts, I feel that people shouldn't be forced into commemorating things. If they don't want to observe 11/11 or wear a poppy that's their decision, as long as they don't interfere with those that do wish to remember I have no problem.
 

Why are you sad ?

[scaley back rover]

Thats the thingwith freedom people can think, do and practice what they like (lawfully of course) whether or not I or others like it or not.Me I am serving also though leaving very soon and will always remember our dead as well as those living whilst being thankful of my good health . As a football fan i will also pay my respects to those who lost their lives doing something they would do weekly in a complete tragedy. Do I think others should have the same views ? maybe but its each to their own and as stated above those that choose not to can do so as its a free country .

[wilts rover]

And so we come back to the orginal point and your comparison. In what way is the Hillsborough commemoration different from Armistace Day in 'forcing' people to commemorate it? On Rememberance Sunday our High Street is closed for a big parade for about half an hour, a lot longert than a delayed seven minute kick-off. If people dont wish to observe it then they dont go. If people dont wish to remember Hillsborough, dont go to a match that weekend. Just because no immediate member of my family died in the services recently doesn't mean I cant take part in a Rememberance Service, just because I dont have a relative who died at Hillsborough doesnt mean I cant respect them too.

[Mike_F]

Sad Rovers wins the thread for the phrase "Mawkish grief-whoring".

[VivaRovers]

Mawkish Grief Whoring playing Tuesday at The Dublin Castle, £5 in advance, £7 on the door

[RedJ]

Will there be a singing section?

[Pintolager]

I don't come on here often now and I've just noticed this thread. I think it is very important to commemorate the Hillsborough anniversary, especially after what happened that day and the subsequent cover-up that seems to have happened over those days events. I, personally know someone who was stood on the Leppings Lane end that day and was squashed up against those railings, but with the help of other fans, he was able to climb the fence onto the pitch to safety. He, however ended up having a breakdown and ended up in the Psychiatric unit for a couple of months - that is how badly he was affected. 25 years later and although he isn't on any medication or seeing a shrink or anything like that, he is not the same outgoing person he was up until that fateful day. He won't even talk about Hillsborough even to this day. He is one of the lucky ones to survive but I am sure there will be quite a few more people still living with the emotional scars from that day for the rest of their lives. It isn't just the families of those 96 that we need to remember imo.

[madbadrob]

I wasnt going to comment on this topic being as even 25 years on it is still raw and emotional to me for reasons I wont share.  Someone mentioned above that we shouldnt be forced into commemorating this like we are not forced into commemorating the fallen soldiers in all conflicts.  Well thats easy.  Those who dont want to stand silent for one minute and be at games starting at 3.07 then dont go.  No one is forcing anyone to commemorate this.

Why 25 years after the event?  Well it is a landmark and the person who said the families of the 96 wouldnt want this are wrong.  The families campaign group have always wanted publicity for the plight they have and stll are going through.  They were consulted about this as was LFC and they are happy with the idea.  This will also be the first year since that tragic day that Liverpool have agreed to play their game on as well. 

So if you dont want to take part dont go its that simple