This CIA torture report

[not on facebook]

Seems as the CIA have used torture to extract information from
The captured  terrorists .

Now we are seeing on sky news etc etc that some People Well
Against the torture pratice .human rights groups etc etc.

From my stance there is no human rights in WAR ,a job needs to be
Done what ever way they see fit.

Ok maybe some  type Of controll is for the better ,but if some waterboarding stress positions etc etc  is required thrn waterboard
Away as i wont  effect my sleep pattern.

After seeing how isis chop heads off Willy nilly ,mass grave shootings
without a second thought i would be happy if whatever force out there
Fought fire with fire tbh.

WAR> you Cant make an omlette without breaking eggs'

Whats all the Fuss about.

And before anyone says they are against CIA dishing out torture
' how would you feal if Your dad or son or brother was captured by isis
and no one could locate where he was Been held via normall methods Of inquiry '

[IC1967]

Well said oslo. Seems to me that the report has been done by the leftie Democrats just to make political capital over the right wing Republicans. The lefties have put making political capital more important trashing America's reputation world wide and will lead to a huge increase in those wanting to fight for Islam.

[Glyn_Wigley]

And just how much useful information has been extracted? Even a former head of British Intelligence I heard on the radio today said it was a waste of time, manpower and money with a return of very little accurate information. Mind you, no doubt Mick thinks he'd be a raging lefty too.

[not on facebook]

Well said oslo. Seems to me that the report has been done by the leftie Democrats just to make political capital over the right wing Republicans. The lefties have put making political capital more important trashing America's reputation world wide and will lead to a huge increase in those wanting to fight for Islam.

Its just a report for me fella  by whoever ,but i guess it will be the lefties in society and media that will be shouting from roof tops about it the loudest.

[not on facebook]

And just how much useful information has been extracted? Even a former head of British Intelligence I heard on the radio today said it was a waste of time, manpower and money with a return of very little accurate information. Mind you, no doubt Mick thinks he'd be a raging lefty too.

That is a valid point glyn ,as iam sure if i was Been tortured i would say Owt they  wanted to hear wrong or correct to stop the torture .

But like i pointed out in my brother or son or dad was captured by isis and CIA came to asking if i was ok with torture Of whoever in hope to find the above i be ok with it

[Glyn_Wigley]

Even if it wasted resources on something pointless when they could instead be doing something more practical?

[Sandy Lane]

Yes, I agree that this report will enflame our enemies, but I feel the most important part of this is about accountability.  We have the Geneva Convention which gives guidelines for war time acceptable 'practices', and we have violated them up the wazoo.  We are purported to be a civilized country, but those type of torture methods make us as barbaric as Isis. 

I also disagree with the statement that it didn't work anyway, well that is besides the point if you truly believe in human rights at all levels of government, even in war time. 

All the political correctness around today I saw as a step forward to all races being culturally astute and our current 'renaissance' in technology, medical advancements, acceptability of religious differences and the like, would only continue to grow.  But with the advent of beheadings, mass kidnappings of women and civilians, Ebola, torture methods, makes me wonder if our historical era is circling around to the dark ages once again. 

So personally I'm glad we have called for the accountability of the cia, and also with recent police practices.  We can't call ourselves civilized while watching and accepting some of these these practices and allowing them to continue.

[Iberian Red]

If Thatcher had been water boarded maybe she would have squealed ,"Don't trust Leo the lion", or "My good friend
Jimmy is a kiddy fiddler".
All the more pity we will never know.

 For that reason I would agree to water boarding.

[Boomstick]

If Thatcher had been water boarded maybe she would have squealed ,"Don't trust Leo the lion", or "My good friend
Jimmy is a kiddy fiddler".
All the more pity we will never know.

 For that reason I would agree to water boarding.

Shame the didn't waterboard tony bliar, or Gordon brown. We might never have gone into Iraq, and the financial crisis would have been half as bad.

f**king lefties, always trying to score political piunts instead of dealing with the problems

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yes, I agree that this report will enflame our enemies, but I feel the most important part of this is about accountability.  We have the Geneva Convention which gives guidelines for war time acceptable 'practices', and we have violated them up the wazoo.  We are purported to be a civilized country, but those type of torture methods make us as barbaric as Isis. 

Ruth.

Nail. Head.

We are supposed to be in a battle of values. We are supposed to be upholding some higher standards than the Islamic fundamentalists. (And, for the record, I believe that that IS a battle worth fighting and winning.)

And then we had two of the biggest b*****ds in the Western World in Cheney and Rumsfeld ripping up the values that we are supposed to hold dear and saying ANYTHING goes because we are sufficiently powerful to impose that on you.

I don't blame Bush. He was the idiot showman at the front, but the Good Ole Boy face on their administration. It was those two and their cohorts who rammed this through. There is a special circle of hell reserved for those them. They have condemned us and our great grand-kids to another century of this conflict.

EDIT: And I include the New Labour stooges in that condemnation. And those in the other parties who would have made the same decision It's pretty clear that some of our most senior politicians were complicit in extraordinary rendition (read: "Sending people to hell-holes in Morocco and Egypt to be tortured").

Harold Wilson has gone down in history as a politician with no morals. But in 1966, President Johnson put the screws on him to send UK troops to Vietnam. Wilson refused. A result of that the USA removed its economic support for the UK, leading in part to the devaluation of the pound in 1967 and Wilson's eventual loss of the 1970 Election.

If only we had people as amoral as Wilson in power today

[Sandy Lane]

Billy, as you know Cheney and Rumsfeld were also in Bush Sr's cabinet and Bush Jr. rehired them, which allowed them to continue their hawkish policies and they subsequently carried the country along with them based on erroneous information for their own personal gain.

I am afraid we are continuing some of their lawlessness related to 911 with the vilification of Edward Snowdon who had the courage to tell all of us what is actually going on with surveillance on, well, everyone.  And Obama does nothing and/or is complicit, which I find to be a huge disappointment.   

Crazy and scary days these.

[BobG]

I laugh out loud every time I hear any politician, any, say that we are 'defending democracy' or 'the terrorists won't change our way of life'. Really? Gosh. What a perverted view of what democracy is they must have.

And for those that can't bring themselves to think:

1) We have been 'fighting terrorism' since the `early 1970's. How much success have we had so far then by adopting the fight methodology?
2) In almost 50 years now no one has yet faced up to the single biggest cause of terrorism in the world over that time: Israel. 
3) Rendition, torture, the plague of covert, and illegal, surveillance noted by Snowden, the massive enfeeblement of parliaments everywhere, indiscriminate and huge scale mass murder from the sky in untold numbers of foreign lands via drone.

No. Fighting terrorism hasn't changed us in the slightest has it?

This half assed crap does no good to anyone on either side. Either have a bloody war - or don't. Carrying on this way is leading us towards a very, very dark pit indeed. Down there lies generations of low level warfare in addition to those inherent in water, oil, climate, food and power over the next 50 years.   

BobG

[Glyn_Wigley]

I laugh out loud every time I hear any politician, any, say that we are 'defending democracy' or 'the terrorists won't change our way of life'. Really? Gosh. What a perverted view of what democracy is they must have.

And for those that can't bring themselves to think:

1) We have been 'fighting terrorism' since the `early 1970's. How much success have we had so far then by adopting the fight methodology?
2) In almost 50 years now no one has yet faced up to the single biggest cause of terrorism in the world over that time: Israel. 
3) Rendition, torture, the plague of covert, and illegal, surveillance noted by Snowden, the massive enfeeblement of parliaments everywhere, indiscriminate and huge scale mass murder from the sky in untold numbers of foreign lands via drone.

No. Fighting terrorism hasn't changed us in the slightest has it?

This half assed crap does no good to anyone on either side. Either have a bloody war - or don't. Carrying on this way is leading us towards a very, very dark pit indeed. Down there lies generations of low level warfare in addition to those inherent in water, oil, climate, food and power over the next 50 years.   

BobG

Or the second one: Saudi Arabia.

[IC1967]

Look it's very simple. Religion is the cause of terrorism. Until people start to think for themselves and realise God in whatever guise does not exist then we will never get it sorted.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Mick

I take it you've never been to Bologna railway station?

Daft question I know, since it's clear you never actually leave your bedroom. But go look it up on Wikipedia.

[IC1967]

No I've never been and probably never will just the same as the vast bulk of the world's population. What a silly question posed in a very strange way. If you've got a point to make about Bologna then just say it instead of prevaricating like someone who believes he has a superior intellect to me. We all know that's not the case given the countless debates you've lost against me.

I am aware there was a terrorist incident there but that does not disprove the main thrust of my argument.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Look it's very simple. Religion is the cause of terrorism. Until people start to think for themselves and realise God in whatever guise does not exist then we will never get it sorted.

In what way were the Red Brigade or Baader-Meinhoff religious?

[IC1967]

They are the exception that proves the rule. I'm also pretty sure they weren't all atheists.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Exceptions don't prove rules, they dispel them.

[Sandy Lane]

I looked up the causes of terrorism just to get more complete information and came up with the website below.  The name is a bit dodgy, but it appears to have decent information.

http://handofreason.com/2011/featured/causes-of-terrorism

[BobG]

Actually 1967, from a historical perspective I pretty much agree with you. Wars over the centuries have, generally, been caused by one of two things: nationalism or religion. I had thought the latter was declining in importance as the world progressed away from relying on mystical fantasies for its belief systems. More fool me. The former is still alive and kicking strongly. What's Russia today if not a nation bent on nationalistic assertion? What's America been this last 50 years too come to that? And worst of all, what have we been? Nationalism is why I am a massive supporter of the European Community.  Yes. It's riddled with issues, problems and faults. But it tends toward reigning in nationalism. It forces nation states to think of others beyond their borders. I cannot envisage any circumstance where losing that is a price worth paying to remedy what are relatively trivial issues in the scale of the death, injury, devastation and destruction that has been the norm for centuries. Given that pretty well every major war the world has seen for over 200 years started off in Europe, I reckon a few immigrants, wine lakes, butter mountains, French farmers and English xenophobics are prices well worth paying.

BobG