Drugs Live - Cannabis

[Capital Steez]

Any watch this the other night? Some interesting stuff. Mostly watching Jon Snow almost pull a Whitey made the programme worthwhile in itself. But is it time to end the 'war on drugs'? A legal regulated market seems the only way forward from here. The so called super strenghth 'skunk' they refer to only exist due to the fact it's illegal. A legal market could control the strenghth and distribute to over 18s  only. With the market worth an estimated 6 billion a year surely it's time to relax those laws and let people chill the f**k out in peace.
Bless
Cap Steez

[BobG]

I always wonder what the relative level of harm is between cannabis, alcohol and tobacco. Despite decades of looking, I have yet to find any explanation why two of those three are legal and one is not.

BobG

[Sammy Chung was King]

Never taken a non prescribed drug in my life, but if it was legalised i would smell more of that smoking stuff when my sinuses are clear that is, everywhere you go it seems to be there.
It is known to cause mental health problems, the younger kids don't realise once it's done damage it can't be repaired, it leads to people pinching other peoples property.

I know many won't pinch but that's how the younger kids fund it, it can also lead to going onto heavier drugs, i have seen the damage it does to families, you don't need zombie films there's plenty on the smoking stuff and heavier who are like 'The Living Dead'.
So many good people ruined by drugs, just as there are with alcohol, cigs etc, and when people drive while smoking the stuff it's not on.
I'm a person that as long as you don't come round me with it, it's nothing to do with me.

[BoomBoom]

Put down your Daily Mail for a second, is it actually known to cause mental health issues?

There is a potential link between early use and genetic vulnerability, but to say its 'known' to cause mental health problems. Prejudiced rubbish I'm afraid.

And some of the other stuff? - it leads to pinching other peoples property? I think everybody can see how stupid of a statement that is.

Even if it was true, which it really really isn't by the way, the only related crime is caused by the fact the substance is prohibited in the first place.

If we look past the nonsensical prejudiced claptrap spouted by the Mail and the like, you'll see the current drug laws are a 'colossal con' of which you've been duped.

[wilts rover]

Yes there are links between cannabis, mental health, depression, schizophrenia and addiction. Just as there are links between alcohol and liver disease and tobacco and cancer. Just because you are taking those substances it doesn't automatically mean you will then get the knock-on effects, but you might.

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinformation/mentalhealthproblems/alcoholanddrugs/cannabisandmentalhealth.aspx

Don't be fooled either by thinking that 'legalising' cannabis will stop any illegal trade in it. Cigarettes are legal - and there is a big black market trade in tobacco. In Holland where cannabis is 'lega' there is also a lot of illegal dealing and there have been calls to stop one to stop the other.

You appear to be well versed in nonsensical prejudiced claptrap Boom Boom, have you been duped?

[Filo]

Anyone smoking weed should be sealed in their own air tight bubble, the stuff stinks to high heaven, why should others have to put up with the disgusting stink it kicks out?

[Capital Steez]

Wilts Rover - Cannabis isn't legal in Holland they have a policy of tolerance.

You only have to have a look at Colorado to see that the world doesn't grind to halt if you have legal weed. There has been a 10.1% decrease in overall crime from this time last year and a 5.2% drop in violent crime. By making it legal, police can focus their attention on stopping more destructive illegal drugs like cocaine and heroin, which are more likely to cause crime and health problems.
As former Home Office minister Norman Baker said - the genie is out the bottle and it's not going back in. It's only matter of time until common sense will prevail.

[wesisback]

I think the problem with cannabis is that similar to alcohol it's too often done in the wrong way.
Similar to alcohol when your doing it every night with only your own thoughts  it becomes dangerous very quickly, especially as of the effects it has on the brain.
If done socially I find I actually enjoy it more than drinking. It's not very often I've woken up and wished id not had that last smoke whereas it's a regular occurrence with my last pint.

[Filo]

I actually picked a customer up in the Taxi who liked to smoke the stuff, he was telling me about this new bird he'd met and the first time he met her parents, they had a friendly Cocker Spaniel as well that would leave him alone, it turned out the birds Dad was a sniffer dog handler and when not working the dog doubles up as the family pet

[jucyberry]

Three rooms, people in each.. In one drinkers, the second smokers and the third pot heads... I can tell you exactly which room I would rather be in if I had to pick one and it definitely wouldn't be the first, give me a pot head over a drunk any day...

[Orlandokarla]

One of my issues with cannabis, is that it is becoming increasingly tolerated, just at a time when we were seemingly, finally, becoming intolerant of people subjecting others to cigarette smoke. For that reason alone, it's a step in the wrong direction.

I have half a dozen nieces and nephews at college in Colorado, and their college experience has been seriously impacted by it. Not because they partake; quite the opposite. It is difficult to find places to live (and study) where they are not subjected to it constantly. Every one of them has had to find alternative accommodation since the start of the school year, due to not wanting to breathe the crap in, and worse, be subjected to the "loser element" that inevitably goes along with it. 2/6 have already moved back home with their parents, and find it more productive to commute 2 hours a day than to live with pot-heads and walk 5 minutes to class.

It's not the drug that's the problem; people are just inconsiderate a***holes. That said, I prefer to not make it easier for such people to make life less tolerable for the productive, decent members of society.

[grayx]

Three rooms, people in each.. In one drinkers, the second smokers and the third pot heads... I can tell you exactly which room I would rather be in if I had to pick one and it definitely wouldn't be the first, give me a pot head over a drunk any day...

Really?
Each to their own i guess, but a room full of druggies doesn't appeal to me.

[wesisback]

One of my issues with cannabis, is that it is becoming increasingly tolerated, just at a time when we were seemingly, finally, becoming intolerant of people subjecting others to cigarette smoke. For that reason alone, it's a step in the wrong direction.

I have half a dozen nieces and nephews at college in Colorado, and their college experience has been seriously impacted by it. Not because they partake; quite the opposite. It is difficult to find places to live (and study) where they are not subjected to it constantly. Every one of them has had to find alternative accommodation since the start of the school year, due to not wanting to breathe the crap in, and worse, be subjected to the "loser element" that inevitably goes along with it. 2/6 have already moved back home with their parents, and find it more productive to commute 2 hours a day than to live with pot-heads and walk 5 minutes to class.

It's not the drug that's the problem; people are just inconsiderate a***holes. That said, I prefer to not make it easier for such people to make life less tolerable for the productive, decent members of society.

That of course is the culture element that I find unacceptable. What I choose to do in my private life shouldn't have an impact on anyone else who doesn't want to be subjected to it. However it is no different from alcohol culture which I find as selfish when imposed on others.
I've seen the best and worst of cannabis. I've seen someone smoke it constantly from a young age who now suffers horrendously which I believe is due to his mental state before smoking it but it has heightened his issues as a result. I also have relations who have smoked it in moderation the same way you would have a glass of wine of an evening and always does it socially and he's suffered no ill effects as a result.
I've been involved in both areas. I'm not ashamed to admit I ruined my university career as a result of my heavy use of Cannabis while I was there. I smoked it from the moment I woke till I went to bed. My studies suffered and luckily I knew I was in that much of a mess that I had to get out after year 1 or face heading into meltdown.

[Sprotyrover]

Well Doncaster Prison is full of Potheads, the heavy users have paranoia, once in prison they can sorce Spice which causes further mayhem,also makes em very violent.
The Criminalty behind Pot is unreal' it's all about turf, you can't make money out of Pot or any other drug without leading a very nasty violent life,or becoming a victim of violence.

[Capital Steez]

Three rooms, people in each.. In one drinkers, the second smokers and the third pot heads... I can tell you exactly which room I would rather be in if I had to pick one and it definitely wouldn't be the first, give me a pot head over a drunk any day...

Really?
Each to their own i guess, but a room full of druggies doesn't appeal to me.

Are you not aware that Alcohol and tobacco are a form of drug? 
***Daily Mail reader alert***

[RobTheRover]

Look,  can't we all just stick to LSD?  Next seasons away kit can then be sky blue pink with yellow polka dots.

[Sprotyrover]

Three rooms, people in each.. In one drinkers, the second smokers and the third pot heads... I can tell you exactly which room I would rather be in if I had to pick one and it definitely wouldn't be the first, give me a pot head over a drunk any day...

Really?
Each to their own i guess, but a room full of druggies doesn't appeal to me.

Are you not aware that Alcohol and tobacco are a form of drug? 
***Daily Mail reader alert***

Alcohol has been a bane for the Brits since Roman times, one Roman traveller wrote of congregationL Huts in each village where they all got together got pissed on Ale and had a Brawl!😃

[Capital Steez]

Well Doncaster Prison is full of Potheads, the heavy users have paranoia, once in prison they can sorce Spice which causes further mayhem,also makes em very violent.
The Criminalty behind Pot is unreal' it's all about turf, you can't make money out of Pot or any other drug without leading a very nasty violent life,or becoming a victim of violence.

The only crime behind weed comes from the fact that it's illegal. Legalise, regulate and tax. I personally have never seen any violence from people buying/selling it. Most are just average joe's trying to make a bit of money on the side or sell surplus amounts from what they grow. The majority are not linked to international Cartels at all.

[wilts rover]

Capital Steez, I dont have any problems with your lifestye choices, its your life and health. But when you come on here stating something to be true when it is totally and utterly incorrect...

I suggest you read this paper
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2950879/

and google international cartel, cannabis, uk

[Capital Steez]

So you are suggesting that cannabis sellers and buyers are involved in violence? I'm not sure if you've ever smoked before but the last thing you would want to do is get in a scrap. Like was shown in the previous posts. Colorado has seen a decrease in violent crime as a result of legalisation. I've never once met a weed dealer who is part of an international cartel. It's nothing more than scaremongering drivel.
Put the market in controlled hands. Control the quality and you create a safer environment for everyone involved. There is no denying that fact. The so called violent cartels you refer to wouldn't even exist if we had a legal market. Wherever there is demand there wil alwaysl be a supplier. The drug 'war' can't be won. Ever.

[BobG]

I have to confess that, as far as I  am aware, users of weed are usually kind of spaced out. They're not into violence. 'Peace maaan' kind of thing. I agree that so called drug barons might have a turf war, but cannabis is simply the vehicle. If it were not there, there'd be a turf war over something else. While ever there are things that are illegal, someone, somewhere will pay over the odds to get it so there will be a trade that incumbents will have to defend against predators. It's not the drug per se. It's the categorisation of activity that causes this violence.

BobG

[Glyn_Wigley]

So you are suggesting that cannabis sellers and buyers are involved in violence? I'm not sure if you've ever smoked before but the last thing you would want to do is get in a scrap. Like was shown in the previous posts. Colorado has seen a decrease in violent crime as a result of legalisation. I've never once met a weed dealer who is part of an international cartel. It's nothing more than scaremongering drivel.
Put the market in controlled hands. Control the quality and you create a safer environment for everyone involved. There is no denying that fact. The so called violent cartels you refer to wouldn't even exist if we had a legal market. Wherever there is demand there wil alwaysl be a supplier. The drug 'war' can't be won. Ever.

It already is. Cannabis isn't prohibited - it's restricted, so it's not illegal as you claimed earlier.

[Glyn_Wigley]

So you are suggesting that cannabis sellers and buyers are involved in violence? I'm not sure if you've ever smoked before but the last thing you would want to do is get in a scrap. Like was shown in the previous posts. Colorado has seen a decrease in violent crime as a result of legalisation. I've never once met a weed dealer who is part of an international cartel. It's nothing more than scaremongering drivel.
Put the market in controlled hands. Control the quality and you create a safer environment for everyone involved. There is no denying that fact. The so called violent cartels you refer to wouldn't even exist if we had a legal market. Wherever there is demand there wil alwaysl be a supplier. The drug 'war' can't be won. Ever.

Fact? Utter b*llocks is it a fact.

As you were so quick to point out earlier in this thread, tobacco is a legal drug, presumably subject to the sorts of quality controls you're talking about. That hasn't stopped massive amounts of counterfeit cigarettes full of all sorts of crap making their way into the market. Why do you think it's a 'fact' that it will somehow be different in the case of cannabis? Especially when you go on to say if there's demand there'll always be a supplier - because that includes crap quality stuff if there's a profit in producing it.

[Capital Steez]

It's illegal to be in possession of cannabis in the UK Glyn. Unless you have a license from the home office.The market is not in controlled hands, it's unregulated.

What happened with alcohol production when that was illegal. You got the moonshine stuff. That's what we have now. I know personally if I could buy from a regulated supplier which strength/quality are controlled I would choose that any day over meeting some random dealer where that quality is unknown. Right now people have no choice when buying it, I just think we should be looking at harm reduction,because the demand is not going to disappear.

[IC1967]

Look. It's very simple. Legalise all drugs. Don't put excessive tax on it and the illegal sources will dry up. Crime will fall dramatically. The kudos of doing something naughty will also disappear and use will fall dramatically.

There will still be idiots that want to use drugs to help them get through their sad lives. Let them get on with it.

[RobTheRover]

What, and dry up the constant supply of Jeremy Kyle "guests"?  Pah!  It'll never work, I tells thee.  ITV wont allow it.

[IC1967]

What, and dry up the constant supply of Jeremy Kyle "guests"?  Pah!  It'll never work, I tells thee.  ITV wont allow it.

There will still be a ready supply of guests for Jeremy. It's going to take many years for the Tories to change the welfare dependency culture Labour created.

No longer should people on benefits get more than those who work. Universal Credit will sort the scroungers out. Good old IDS.

[TheFunk]

Universal Credit won't sort anything out. Real Time Information was brought into the PAYE system for Universal Credit purposes. Unfortunately the HMRC computer system is a compete mess and consistently is getting employees data wrong and mixing up individuals NI numbers. Some low earners don't even come under the RTI system, something many HMRC employees aren't even aware of. Guess what, most of them will be entitled to some form of Universal Credit. Work that one out.

[BobG]

But it's market forces and market companies that have developed and failed to deliver this wonderful RTI/UC system though. So that's all ok then. It's only our money going into the hands of shareholders and fat cat, not very competent, bosses after all

BobG

[Iberian Red]

One of my issues with cannabis, is that it is becoming increasingly tolerated, just at a time when we were seemingly, finally, becoming intolerant of people subjecting others to cigarette smoke. For that reason alone, it's a step in the wrong direction.

I have half a dozen nieces and nephews at college in Colorado, and their college experience has been seriously impacted by it. Not because they partake; quite the opposite. It is difficult to find places to live (and study) where they are not subjected to it constantly. Every one of them has had to find alternative accommodation since the start of the school year, due to not wanting to breathe the crap in, and worse, be subjected to the "loser element" that inevitably goes along with it. 2/6 have already moved back home with their parents, and find it more productive to commute 2 hours a day than to live with pot-heads and walk 5 minutes to class.

It's not the drug that's the problem; people are just inconsiderate a***holes. That said, I prefer to not make it easier for such people to make life less tolerable for the productive, decent members of society.

That of course is the culture element that I find unacceptable. What I choose to do in my private life shouldn't have an impact on anyone else who doesn't want to be subjected to it. However it is no different from alcohol culture which I find as selfish when imposed on others.
I've seen the best and worst of cannabis. I've seen someone smoke it constantly from a young age who now suffers horrendously which I believe is due to his mental state before smoking it but it has heightened his issues as a result. I also have relations who have smoked it in moderation the same way you would have a glass of wine of an evening and always does it socially and he's suffered no ill effects as a result.
I've been involved in both areas. I'm not ashamed to admit I ruined my university career as a result of my heavy use of Cannabis while I was there. I smoked it from the moment I woke till I went to bed. My studies suffered and luckily I knew I was in that much of a mess that I had to get out after year 1 or face heading into meltdown.

Lightweight!