I wonder

[BillyStubbsTears]

If an MP had been murdered on the street by an Islamic fanatic, woukd this place have seen no comment on the event 7-8 hours later?

[tommy toes]

I almost started one a few hours ago but couldn't see the point. It's so sad this.
My daughter campaigns for Labour and knew her a little. She says what everyone else had been saying: a lovely, funny down to earth woman who genuinely cared.

[Bentley Bullet]

It's such a shocking crime that it seems the last thing people want to do at such an early stage is score political points from the incident.....Well most people anyway.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

It's such a shocking crime that it seems the last thing people want to do at such an early stage is score political points from the incident.....Well most people anyway.

Agreed.

[Orlandokarla]

If an MP had been murdered on the street by an Islamic fanatic, woukd this place have seen no comment on the event 7-8 hours later?

Probably.
49 killed in Orlando by a self-professed Islamic fanatic has seen no comment after nearly a week, so who's to say?

[Filo]

It's such a shocking crime that it seems the last thing people want to do at such an early stage is score political points from the incident.....Well most people anyway.

I agree, and I'm surprised at the OP, even the campaigning in the referendum has been suspended

[idler]

The murder of Lee Rigsby got plenty of coverage.

[Filo]

The murder of Lee Rigsby got plenty of coverage.

There wasn't a referendum looming then, political points were irrelevent

[GazLaz]

I've just bought a house in her borough, literally around the corner from where she was killed. Tragic incident, the focus needs to be on mental health issues though, identifying people with them and giving them support.

[Mike_F]

I work in Batley. It's deprived (even compared to Donny!) and has a high percentage of immigrants but I've never seen any bother out on the streets as people go about their business. Absolutely shocking event and regardless of politics the main point is two children have lost their mum. Sickening.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Mike

Amen.

For the record, there was nothing "political" behind my post. There was nothing connected with the referendum (and how in God's name anyone drew such a connection, I've no idea).

I'll admit, I was a bit emotional after hearing tributes to Jo Cox from her husband and friends, and I was genuinely surprised that no-one, other than me, obliquely on another thread, had mentioned this. By midnight on the night that Lee Rigby was butchered to death, we had two pages of discussion, most of it pretty febrile. And I worry about people's priorities.

I particularly worry about the casual way in which people denigrate and castigate MPs as idle chancers. If there's anything good comes out of this horror, it might be the realisation of just what ability and commitment many MPs have. And a reflection on the culture that led to someone feeling justified in what he did yesterday.

If people see that as some sort of political point scoring, frankly, I don't much care.

[RedJ]

I've just bought a house in her borough, literally around the corner from where she was killed. Tragic incident, the focus needs to be on mental health issues though, identifying people with them and giving them support.

At a time when the government is intent on destroying the health services too.

[Bentley Bullet]

BST, If an MP had been murdered on the street by an Islamic fanatic, would YOU have started a thread about it?

Orlandokarla answered your original question quite accurately with the comment  "Probably.
49 killed in Orlando by a self-professed Islamic fanatic has seen no comment after nearly a week, so who's to say"?

[Lipsy]

Personally, I spent the evening listening to a variety of talk radio shows and reading various people's comments on the terrible actions of yesterday. I never thought I would see the day that I agree with anything that Rod Liddle said/wrote, but it happened when I read his brief output on the Spectator website (there was actually a couple of "good" pieces on there for anyone that likes that sort of thing: http://www.spectator.co.uk/).

I thought about mentioning it on here, but as the night rolled on there was talk about whether Thomas Mair had actually said "Britain First" or anything like it, whether he was even right-wing, and also - most especially - it became clear that this guy had been mentally ill and possibly only recently released from a psychiatric hospital. As such, I chose to steer clear of commenting on here until some facts made themselves known.

I'm sure that some perhaps would have immediately leapt up and down had this man been a Muslim. I don't even want to think about how Farage (who I now think is just the tool the 'Leave' campaign use to say the nasty things that Boris and Gove won't), the Mail, Express, and Sun would have capitalised on the events of yesterday. It doesn't bear thinking about what they would have done. Personally, I just tried to process that such a mindless act had been committed and lament upon the fact that - whatever the man's mental state is/was - we have cultivated such a toxic climate in this country now. Frankly, whether we leave or stay, getting rid of this hate (most of which has been whipped up by the organs I have already mentioned) is the only true way we'll get back "our" country and perhaps put us on the long road back to being great again.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bentley

I suspect I would have made the initial comment I made on this occasion.

[Bentley Bullet]

Billy

 Sorry if I'm being unfair, but if that was the case why didn't you start a thread on the Orlando killings, seeing as no one else had? 

[BillyStubbsTears]

Because that was in the USA. Equally, I didn't start a thread about Fallujah, Raqqah or the Ankara bombing.

There are limits to issues which even I can dive into.

But I'll be straightforwardbin this case. The Lee Rigby and Jo Cox murders were, so far as I can see, very similar. Both we attacks on totally innocent people who were devoting their lives to the nation. Both were carried out, apparently, by mentally disturbed people who, apparently, had convinced themselves of the rightness of what the rest of us see as abhorrently hateful beliefs. Both horrified all right-thinking people.

I find it disturbing that in the case of Lee Rigby, there were several dozen postings within hours on this site screaming for the death penalty. Whereas in this case, there wasn't a peep until people started telling me that I was out of order for discussing it. If me riling people provokes a bit of reflection on that theme, then that might not be a bad thing.

[Bentley Bullet]

Both incidents have similarities. Both are filled with outrage, but perhaps there is even more anger and despair involved when the culprits are known by the authorities as anti-british and full of hate for british people. Such people being allowed to walk the streets to terrorise and commit atrocities will inevitably provoke more response, mainly about our country's inadequacy in dealing with such nutcases.

Jo Cox's murderer also sounds like a nutcase, but he wasn't classed as a potential killer let loose on the streets - unlike Lee Rigby's murderers.

[Lipsy]

Respect: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jo-cox-death-conservatives-will-not-contest-murdered-labour-mp-seat-batley-spen-thomas-mair-a7087246.html

[BillyStubbsTears]

Lipsy
If Liddle has a conscience, which is debatable, he might be looking at it now, and at his very public role in stirring up hatred agsinst the Jo Coxes of this world.

[Lipsy]

BST,

I find the man utterly detestable. He's one of the few folks that walk the Earth that bring about the "I have to punch him in his face repeatedly until he stops" reaction in me that - quite genuinely - very, very few people are capable of. But if we call out Liddle then we have to call all of them out because each has played his or her part. Gove, whose own father has said that his son lied when he stood up on national telly to say that the EU had destroyed his dad's business. Boris, a man who says whatever Gove tells him (which makes Gove even more sinister) - even if he contradicts himself and the views he has shared with the world in months and years gone by. And, of course, Farage. Likewise the Mail and all the others (see yesterday's DM headline about illegal immigrants pouring in from Europe and today's 'Where's Wally' apology that, in fact, they were actually from Iraq and Kuwait). All of these (and more) have either been peddling hate or fanning the flames and - little by little, in small and large ways - they've played their part in creating a toxic, hostile environment for this referendum.

It now appears very likely that Jo Cox's killer was somewhat extreme in his views (that's what I am now reading) - if that's the case, whilst mental instability clearly played its part, the media, journos and MPs etc who have lied and stirred all of this up should be feckin' ashamed of themselves.

[Lipsy]

Worth 3-and-half minutes of anyone's time, I think:

http://www.lbc.co.uk/jamess-monologue-on-jo-cox-is-a-must-listen-132384

[roversdude]

Regardless this is a terrible loss and thoughts go out to her family
I'm not normally emotional but her husbands words cut deep

[wilts rover]

I doubt we will ever know what truely was going through Mair's mind. He is obviously not stupid, he can make his own gun, but he bought much of that material 20 years ago. Did he make the gun 20 years ago? Why Jo Cox? Why now?

People felt the need to discuss the Lee Rigby murder in a wider world context. There is no such context in this case (or really in Orlando). Just a lot of sadness for a good person. Asad Shah, Michael Ryan, Raoul Moat, do we need to compare and contrast all mad killers and their victims?

Would there have been a greater discussion if the killer was Islamic - it doesn't matter, he wasn't. If there is a context it appears to be the poor and poisionous quality of the EU Referendum Campaign, which we have gone over ourselves ad finitum on another thread, and psychiatric care.