I wonder if Sheila in Barnsley..

[Copps is Magic]

Realises that prominent leave campaigners actually want and support free movement of people

I wonder if Sheila actually understands that UKIP and Nigel Farage are essentially pro immigration. I wonder if she realises that no serious person in politics now thinks its possible to get net immigration below the hundreds of thousands.

[Copps is Magic]

In good company, of course, with Borris Johnson who is also firmly pro-immigration.

[RedJ]

It's almost as if a proportion of the people who voted to leave are thick...


That, or Barnsley is full of thick Kitsons.


Mind you, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

[Copps is Magic]

I'm just going off what Sheila said to be honest. Rotherham, Donny and Barnsley voted in nearly the exactly same way, so she shares a certain company. What Sheila said when asked was 'One word, immigration'. I know nothing of how intelligent she is because that's all she said.

The out campaign used immigration as an issue but when you dig down into their views and policies you actually realise they mostly all want and support immigration. I'd say Farage almost has a fantasy about getting increased commonwealth immigration into the country the frequency with which he mentions it.

[Sammy Chung was King]

Most people didn't vote Boris, or Farage, a lot of people voted for the chance of things being better in this country.
  People who i know voted out because they have had enough, of how the country is being run, where the rich are prioritised, and the poor kicked back into the gutter.
 People voted out, because voting remain, was for centuries of more of the same. It was nothing to do with Boris and his clan, they are no different than the remain camp, they are all conservatives.

People voted out, for the chance of the country becoming what it used to be, a place where there are jobs, and you have a few quid in you're pocket.
 A place where you are allowed to have an opinion, before being called racist if you don't agree. All the people didn't vote leave for racist reasons, they voted for a chance of a better future for they're kids, grandkids etc.
 A lot didn't vote with themselves in mind, they voted that way, to give they're kids a chance of a better life than they have had!.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Most people didn't vote Boris, or Farage

Are you really trying to tell us that if Boris and Nige hadn't gone campaigning and spreading their lies the vote would have been exactly the same??

[Copps is Magic]

Sammy, thanks for articulating your views in a far more concise format than usual.

Let's cut straight to the racism issue. Who mentioned racism? I certainly didn't. Who is calling leave voters racists more generally? It seems to me this 'I'm not racist but...', 'it's not racist to want...' view is one that has largely emerged without an easily identifiable claim in the opposite direction. It seems to me to be the outward expression of the inner-dialogue that many people who voted leave are having with themselves. It's self-justification, and self doubt in the first place. It's defiance against their own consciousness.

I think the secret is that the people who persuaded people to vote leave actually understand (and play on) the distinction between anti-immigration and racism whereas many voters struggle with it. All the main leave campaigners want immigration to continue. Some, it seems, broadly along the same numbers we have currently whereas others pay some very oblique and vague attention to 'getting the numbers down'. Essentially they want to make immigration more palatable to the British public through increased profiling. How they plan to achieve that is anyone's guess because it is also the current policy. In a broader historical sense, this is how capitalism has operated for some time now by assimilating contradictions and presenting them differently.

My question was, does Sheila in Barnsley who simply said 'immigration' realise the above?

People voted out, for the chance of the country becoming what it used to be, a place where there are jobs, and you have a few quid in you're pocket

What time period are you referring to? The employment rate is currently the highest it has been since 1971. I agree in the sense that we may not be better off for it but poverty and inequality have always existed. I think you may have fallen for some nostalgic fallacy.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sammy

I fully understand that people voted out for the reasons you stated.

But if someone punching you in the face, you don't respond by setting of a bomb in your hand. That is what we did on Thursday.

And that's the saddest thing. This decision will not make their lives any easier or better. It'll make it poorer and even more bitter. They haven't hit the establishment. The result is going to be to put Johnson and Gove in No 10 and 11! How in God's name is that going to improve the lot of folk in Denaby?

They've been played and we'll have to deal with that for the next two generations.

[Sammy Chung was King]

Sammy, thanks for articulating your views in a far more concise format than usual.

Let's cut straight to the racism issue. Who mentioned racism? I certainly didn't. Who is calling leave voters racists more generally? It seems to me this 'I'm not racist but...', 'it's not racist to want...' view is one that has largely emerged without an easily identifiable claim in the opposite direction. It seems to me to be the outward expression of the inner-dialogue that many people who voted leave are having with themselves. It's self-justification, and self doubt in the first place. It's defiance against their own consciousness.

I think the secret is that the people who persuaded people to vote leave actually understand (and play on) the distinction between anti-immigration and racism whereas many voters struggle with it. All the main leave campaigners want immigration to continue. Some, it seems, broadly along the same numbers we have currently whereas others pay some very oblique and vague attention to 'getting the numbers down'. Essentially they want to make immigration more palatable to the British public through increased profiling. How they plan to achieve that is anyone's guess because it is also the current policy. In a broader historical sense, this is how capitalism has operated for some time now by assimilating contradictions and presenting them differently.

My question was, does Sheila in Barnsley who simply said 'immigration' realise the above?

People voted out, for the chance of the country becoming what it used to be, a place where there are jobs, and you have a few quid in you're pocket

The remain camp themselves, the politicians, referred to leave voters, as older generation voters or racists. I am not not justifying my vote, i voted for what i thought was right for a better future, for my nieces and family. I'm not self concious about being labelled racist, i don't care if that's thought, nothing i can do about that.
 My vote was done for the reasons said. You are right that confusion is used to gain votes, no doubt about that. Both sides failed to give enough information to the voter, we all had to pick between lies and try to find some truth.
 Most of the people i know, don't have a problem with foreign people coming in, in a controlled number. Skilled people who can help the country. People judge by what they're local area is like, if they feel overwhelmed, by people around them, who they can't have a conversation with.

 It makes some feel uncomfortable, i'm sure it would be reversed if those english people were in the others country. They will also judge is they have problems enrolling kids in the local school, or if they can get an appointment with the doctor. I don't know if our country is seen as unfriendly, but i don't see many foreign people getting involved in local life.
They seem to stay in their own country people friend sets, which is a shame as there will be some great people to get to know. Is it a language barrier that causes this problem, or is it just wanting to stick together as country people?. I am sure in the work place this is very different, but in village life, around my area, i don't see much getting to know each other.

What time period are you referring to? The employment rate is currently the highest it has been since 1971. I agree in the sense that we may not be better off for it but poverty and inequality have always existed. I think you may have fallen for some nostalgic fallacy.

Sammy

I fully understand that people voted out for the reasons you stated.

But if someone punching you in the face, you don't respond by setting of a bomb in your hand. That is what we did on Thursday.

And that's the saddest thing. This decision will not make their lives any easier or better. It'll make it poorer and even more bitter. They haven't hit the establishment. The result is going to be to put Johnson and Gove in No 10 and 11! How in God's name is that going to improve the lot of folk in Denaby?

They've been played and we'll have to deal with that for the next two generations.

Most people didn't vote Boris, or Farage

It probably won't stretch to Denaby, even the romans stayed away from there! . But then being involved in the eu didn't do much for our areas. I don't know what has been done in denaby, but in askern, we have buildings that fair play, were funded by eu money, for training for work enterprises. Then the government cut the funding, so the building is now empty, and an opportunity lost to improve lives.
We had a play park funded partly by eu money, that can't be hindered, the kids will get lots of fun out of that. We had lower power lighting fitted in our village, but funding ran out halfway, it has made the streets less secure than the older lighting.But it's said to be energy concious, so when that's brought up, then it's done.
The eu funded a kids, swedish style chalet building, so they could meet and talk, and it took them away from potential problems around the streets, again funding cut, it's lucky if it opens once or twice a week.

 You could say ''Well it's our money just coming back''!, but would the conservatives have give the funding otherwise?, no they wouldn't. The reason the eu money didn't help, is though the eu paid for the buildings to be built, the governments short sighted decision to cut funding, meant that beacons of hope were taken away.
That is why leave won, and without the eu putting that money in, the government had no intention of building anything. That is the way they have gone about letting extra people in, and hoping the current system can manage to cope, it can't!. The biggest problem is our government, the eu had many things that were not agreed with, but our governments sheer short sightedness and arrogance, has led to this 'Protest vote'!.
Are you really trying to tell us that if Boris and Nige hadn't gone campaigning and spreading their lies the vote would have been exactly the same??

I know Boris being on that side, did help pull some votes in, Nigel will have lost them votes in the main, this was a protest vote against many things. It was a point blank message ''We don't like how things are being run''!.
 And people were worrying about they're kids futures. They saw a country that was letting in more people, than the system can cope with, and a government that isn't capable of building the system to make it efficient.
 The little things like getting a doctors appointment, being able to enrol they're kid at the local school. When the kid leaves school would there be a job for them. Of course some of it is people just not wanting people who are not english in the country, there are people like that, who vote for every party.

 Most people know we need immigration, they just want it controlled. You have immigrants who have lived in our country worried about the same. People have voted how they have for many different reasons, but a big percentage i would think, is just a plain old protest vote!.
I see people who live in my area with the ''I don't like foreigners attitude'', but most people i know who voted, seemed to be voting for their kids, rather than themselves. Now whether, they, myself and others have been conned time will tell, it wouldn't be a new experience. Whatever the country has to get on with it, and do it's best to use the opportunity to improve, i still think i voted the right way.