The process of withdrawing from the European Union

[Colemans Left Hook]

just been looking through my files and came across this <a href="" target="_blank"></a>

here's the conclusion bit

Conclusions

28.EU Member States would retain significant control over the withdrawal
negotiations, despite the Commission having responsibility for their
conduct.

29.The European Parliament’s right not to give its consent to the adoption of the withdrawal agreement would give it considerable inf luence.

30.One  of  the  most  important  aspects  of  the  withdrawal  negotiations  would be determining the acquired rights of the two million or so UK citizens  living  in  other  Member  States,  and  equally  of  EU  citizens  living in the UK. This would be a complex and daunting task.

[Donnywolf]

TBH I am perhaps selfishly not bothered any more. I am sick to the back teeth of all of it

Who knows whether we have made the right or wrong decision ? It will unfold over untold years and will either be broadly good* for us, broadly bad for us ** or broadly neutral for us. Who knows

Nobody gave us any real (true) facts before the Referendum and yet entrusted the electorate to come up with a view despite them (the Politicians) supposedly the being the ones in the know AND the ones we the electorate had already voted into Parliament to make decisions our our behalf

Now we face more years of speculation / punditry / scare stories etc etc and I for one am as I said sick to death of it. All I presume is :

If the UK (in whatever form) is hugely benefited by leaving then the money people will get the lions share

If the UK (in whatever form) has made a sad error and we are left in a detrimental economic position then the poorer people will pay the price via more austerity

* depends how YOU personally define Good
** depends how you personally define Bad

[Syme]

Simon Heffer has got bigger fish to fry than the economy:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/01/now-sovereign-nation-must-bring-back-imperial-units/

[Glyn_Wigley]

Simon Heffer has got bigger fish to fry than the economy:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/01/now-sovereign-nation-must-bring-back-imperial-units/

I can't read any further than a few paragraphs, but am I right in presuming that Heffer is peddling the stale old Euromyth that the EU has forced the metric system on the UK, despite it being adopted by the Uk when we were a sovereign state before we joined the EU?

And that given the freedom that they already have (which is package their goods in whatever size they want), that manufacturers are going to suddenly pay money to set up a second production line to manufacture goods solely for the UK market...instead of not spending unnecessary money and just carry on exactly as they are doing now..?

[Syme]

Not being a Premium Telegraph man I can't read any further myself, but I suspect that's the tone of it yes Glyn.

Brexit is bad enough without people like Heffer trying to use it as a vehicle to drive us back down memory lane. Farage often harks back to the good old days of Empire, perhaps Brexit is just a stepping stone to something far worse for some.

[Syme]

Well that didn't take long, Michael Howard eyeing up a war with Spain already:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/02/britain-and-eu-worse-off-without-brexit-deal-says-michael-fallon

[Glyn_Wigley]

Do the Tories really think this ridiculous posturing over something that isn't even an issue is somehow going to give them leverage at the negotiating table? Or is it purely for domestic consumption?

[BobG]

I sometimes think the Houses of Parliament must be a comfortable home for rich, disturbed folk with delusions of grandeur. Howard, a child of immigrants, peddling crap like this? He always was a rentagob. Now he's a deluded too.

BobG

[idler]

The latter I think Glynn.

[Syme]

"Show business for ugly people"

[Dagenham Rover]

Simon Heffer has got bigger fish to fry than the economy:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/01/now-sovereign-nation-must-bring-back-imperial-units/

I can't read any further than a few paragraphs, but am I right in presuming that Heffer is peddling the stale old Euromyth that the EU has forced the metric system on the UK, despite it being adopted by the Uk when we were a sovereign state before we joined the EU?

And that given the freedom that they already have (which is package their goods in whatever size they want), that manufacturers are going to suddenly pay money to set up a second production line to manufacture goods solely for the UK market...instead of not spending unnecessary money and just carry on exactly as they are doing now..?

OK to make it easier for you Glyn the bulk of metrification came in after we had joined the EU now whether this was voluntary or a  forced hidden agenda could well be disputed however a couple of basic links

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_Kingdom

perhaps this paragraph is the most poignent

The treaty of accession to the European Economic Community (EEC), which the United Kingdom joined in 1973, obliged the United Kingdom to incorporate into domestic law all EEC directives, including the use of a prescribed SI-based set of units for many purposes within five years. By 1980 most pre-packaged goods were sold using the prescribed units. Mandatory use of prescribed units for retail sales took effect in 1995 for packaged goods and in 2000 for goods sold loose by weight. The use of "supplementary indications" or alternative units (generally the traditional imperial units formerly used) was originally to have been permitted for only a limited period. However, that period had to be extended a number of times due to public resistance, until in 2009 the requirement to ultimately cease use of traditional units alongside metric units was finally removed.

http://www.metric.org.uk/metrication-timeline

ok metrification has been going on for years whether its the metrification of "any old system" to an "Imperial system" to a "metric system"  but how about 1973  the standardisation of things have been going on for years however the bulk of what is today termed as "metrification" was forced on the UK by the EU


and I'm not responding any further cos I can't be arsed

[Glyn_Wigley]

Simon Heffer has got bigger fish to fry than the economy:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/01/now-sovereign-nation-must-bring-back-imperial-units/

I can't read any further than a few paragraphs, but am I right in presuming that Heffer is peddling the stale old Euromyth that the EU has forced the metric system on the UK, despite it being adopted by the Uk when we were a sovereign state before we joined the EU?

And that given the freedom that they already have (which is package their goods in whatever size they want), that manufacturers are going to suddenly pay money to set up a second production line to manufacture goods solely for the UK market...instead of not spending unnecessary money and just carry on exactly as they are doing now..?

OK to make it easier for you Glyn the bulk of metrification came in after we had joined the EU now whether this was voluntary or a  forced hidden agenda could well be disputed however a couple of basic links

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_Kingdom

perhaps this paragraph is the most poignent

The treaty of accession to the European Economic Community (EEC), which the United Kingdom joined in 1973, obliged the United Kingdom to incorporate into domestic law all EEC directives, including the use of a prescribed SI-based set of units for many purposes within five years. By 1980 most pre-packaged goods were sold using the prescribed units. Mandatory use of prescribed units for retail sales took effect in 1995 for packaged goods and in 2000 for goods sold loose by weight. The use of "supplementary indications" or alternative units (generally the traditional imperial units formerly used) was originally to have been permitted for only a limited period. However, that period had to be extended a number of times due to public resistance, until in 2009 the requirement to ultimately cease use of traditional units alongside metric units was finally removed.

http://www.metric.org.uk/metrication-timeline

ok metrification has been going on for years whether its the metrification of "any old system" to an "Imperial system" to a "metric system"  but how about 1973  the standardisation of things have been going on for years however the bulk of what is today termed as "metrification" was forced on the UK by the EU


and I'm not responding any further cos I can't be arsed

So in all the time we've been in the EU, Imperial measures have been able to be used on packaging (albeit alongside metric measures), and goods have been able to be sold in whatever quantities we like.

Doesn't sound like 'being forced' to do anything we didn't want to do to me.

As for not being arsed to do something, it looks like that included bothering to read any of your second link at all. It quite clearly tells you that practically none of UK metrification is anything to do the the EU! Thanks for providing the evidence to back me up!

[Dagenham Rover]

Simon Heffer has got bigger fish to fry than the economy:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/01/now-sovereign-nation-must-bring-back-imperial-units/

I can't read any further than a few paragraphs, but am I right in presuming that Heffer is peddling the stale old Euromyth that the EU has forced the metric system on the UK, despite it being adopted by the Uk when we were a sovereign state before we joined the EU?

And that given the freedom that they already have (which is package their goods in whatever size they want), that manufacturers are going to suddenly pay money to set up a second production line to manufacture goods solely for the UK market...instead of not spending unnecessary money and just carry on exactly as they are doing now..?

OK to make it easier for you Glyn the bulk of metrification came in after we had joined the EU now whether this was voluntary or a  forced hidden agenda could well be disputed however a couple of basic links

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_Kingdom

perhaps this paragraph is the most poignent

The treaty of accession to the European Economic Community (EEC), which the United Kingdom joined in 1973, obliged the United Kingdom to incorporate into domestic law all EEC directives, including the use of a prescribed SI-based set of units for many purposes within five years. By 1980 most pre-packaged goods were sold using the prescribed units. Mandatory use of prescribed units for retail sales took effect in 1995 for packaged goods and in 2000 for goods sold loose by weight. The use of "supplementary indications" or alternative units (generally the traditional imperial units formerly used) was originally to have been permitted for only a limited period. However, that period had to be extended a number of times due to public resistance, until in 2009 the requirement to ultimately cease use of traditional units alongside metric units was finally removed.

http://www.metric.org.uk/metrication-timeline

ok metrification has been going on for years whether its the metrification of "any old system" to an "Imperial system" to a "metric system"  but how about 1973  the standardisation of things have been going on for years however the bulk of what is today termed as "metrification" was forced on the UK by the EU


and I'm not responding any further cos I can't be arsed

So in all the time we've been in the EU, Imperial measures have been able to be used on packaging (albeit alongside metric measures), and goods have been able to be sold in whatever quantities we like.

Doesn't sound like 'being forced' to do anything we didn't want to do to me.

As for not being arsed to do something, it looks like that included bothering to read any of your second link at all. It quite clearly tells you that practically none of UK metrification is anything to do the the EU! Thanks for providing the evidence to back me up!

 Oh Glyn, the second link provides evidence that the UK has been  attempting  to standardise things for donkeys however the the imperial system basically counts in twelves and the metric system counts in tens this is actually quite important (standardise and metrification were actually two different things) as the UK had been standardiseing since 1215 although the decimal coinage (metric) system started  to come in from 1968 and was properly implemented in 1971 we had been attempting to join the EEC on numerous occasions prior to '73 the second link states as I pointed out in 1973 when the UK joined what was actually the European Economic Community and not the European Union  and I quote  "UK enters EEC and reaffirms commitment to adopt metric system"  basically we had to

[Glyn_Wigley]

You can only reaffirm a commitment if you already had that commitment in the first place! And if we were committed to doing it anyway you can't say it's something we were forced into doing by the EU - you have to be against something to be forced to it!

And the whole point about the EU wanting everything to show metric measures is exactly the same reason - standardisation across a market place - as you claim the UK were already implementing for ages as well!

You don't honestly think that currency decimalisation was due to the EU as well do you??

[Dagenham Rover]

I said we attempted to join the EEC (not the EU) previously namely in 1963 and 1967 both were blocked by the French (De Gaulle) no you can read whatever you want to into that

there is a difference between standardisation and metricification ( or as it was also sometimes known the continental system) Over the years we attempted to standardise onto the imperial system not the metric or continental system its relatively recent.

I had a teacher in junior school who refered to centimetres and kilograms and said dont worry you'll never need to know in your lifetime

coincidence we went decimal when we were attempting to join the EEC  you read it how you want

[Filo]

I said we attempted to join the EEC (not the EU) previously namely in 1963 and 1967 both were blocked by the French (De Gaulle) no you can read whatever you want to into that

there is a difference between standardisation and metricification ( or as it was also sometimes known the continental system) Over the years we attempted to standardise onto the imperial system not the metric or continental system its relatively recent.

I had a teacher in junior school who refered to centimetres and kilograms and said dont worry you'll never need to know in your lifetime

coincidence we went decimal when we were attempting to join the EEC  you read it how you want

It was a strange one that one, He led the free French against the Germans, they occupied his Country and installed a puppet government (Vichy France), but then alligned himself with Germany to form the EEC and blocked Britains entry because he didn't trust Britain. You'd think he'd welcome his liberators with open arms

[Glyn_Wigley]

I said we attempted to join the EEC (not the EU) previously namely in 1963 and 1967 both were blocked by the French (De Gaulle) no you can read whatever you want to into that

there is a difference between standardisation and metricification ( or as it was also sometimes known the continental system) Over the years we attempted to standardise onto the imperial system not the metric or continental system its relatively recent.

I had a teacher in junior school who refered to centimetres and kilograms and said dont worry you'll never need to know in your lifetime

coincidence we went decimal when we were attempting to join the EEC  you read it how you want

De Gaulle said no because he thought we were America's poodle, not because we weren't metric!

Go on then, what's the difference between standardisation and metrification, as you see it?

Decimalisation had nothing to do with joining Europe - countries deal in pounds, not pence. Australia went decimal in 1966, New Zealand in 1967, also while we were applying to join Europe...coincidence? You bet! Countries simplifying their currency structure is done for just that reason, nothing else.

Australia went decimal in 1966,

[Dagenham Rover]

and of course you knew Mr De Gaulle  so you know categorically what his thoughts and reasons  were whether private or public

as for the difference Ive already explained to you above  the clue is actually in the first part of the word Metrification

and who gives a toss about NZ and Australia going metric totally irrelevent.
 however simplifying currency to a metric counting system to fall in line with other countries.......just like those in the then EEC

[Syme]

and I'm not responding any further cos I can't be arsed

The road to hell is paved with good intentions

[Dagenham Rover]

and I'm not responding any further cos I can't be arsed

The road to hell is paved with good intentions

   

[Filo]

and of course you knew Mr De Gaulle  so you know categorically what his thoughts and reasons  were whether private or public

as for the difference Ive already explained to you above  the clue is actually in the first part of the word Metrification

and who gives a toss about NZ and Australia going metric totally irrelevent.
 however simplifying currency to a metric counting system to fall in line with other countries.......just like those in the then EEC

Monsieur

😝😝😝😝😝

[Glyn_Wigley]

and of course you knew Mr De Gaulle  so you know categorically what his thoughts and reasons  were whether private or public

as for the difference Ive already explained to you above  the clue is actually in the first part of the word Metrification

and who gives a toss about NZ and Australia going metric totally irrelevent.
 however simplifying currency to a metric counting system to fall in line with other countries.......just like those in the then EEC

1. Well, you seem to think you know why de Gaulle was saying no for...because we weren't metric!

2. No, you have not explained the difference between standardisation and metrification- only that there is some sort of difference with regard to what the UK was doing but without explaining what that difference is. Unless that gibberish about one being in base 12 and the other in base 10 is what you think the difference is...?

And Australia and New Zealand are not irrelevant as they demonstrate that countries were changing to decimalisation without the coincidence of joining the Europe for people to make stupid connections to. Did so many ex-Empire African countries adopt decimalisation after independence because they wanted to join Europe too? Erm...no. They did it to simplify their currency structure, just like we eventually did, all of our own accord.

[Dagenham Rover]

and of course you knew Mr De Gaulle  so you know categorically what his thoughts and reasons  were whether private or public

as for the difference Ive already explained to you above  the clue is actually in the first part of the word Metrification

and who gives a toss about NZ and Australia going metric totally irrelevent.
 however simplifying currency to a metric counting system to fall in line with other countries.......just like those in the then EEC

1. Well, you seem to think you know why de Gaulle was saying no for...because we weren't metric!

I never said that

2. No, you have not explained the difference between standardisation and metrification- only that there is some sort of difference with regard to what the UK was doing but without explaining what that difference is. Unless that gibberish about one being in base 12 and the other in base 10 is what you think the difference is...?

there are many different reasonably common methods of counting including the 2 mentioned, the base 10 as you now refer to is commonly regarded as a  metric  or decimal system.
 Lets just say Lincolnshire used to have 11d to one shilling and Yorkshire  had 12d to one shilling King E by Gum that ruled over Yorks and Lincs thought this was daft so he standardised it so that 12d = one shilling all over yorks and Lincs you wouldnt say he "metrified" it
 however if   King E by Gum  thought lets make it easier for the peasants and count in multiples of 10 so that 10d became a shilling one could say he metrified it as it was actually taking on a metric/decimal system  in this scenario you could also  say  he standardised it  a slight difference in terminolgy but its there . Not that its of any great significance I still have to use Hex binary  quite frequently

And Australia and New Zealand are not irrelevant as they demonstrate that countries were changing to decimalisation without the coincidence of joining the Europe for people to make stupid connections to. Did so many ex-Empire African countries adopt decimalisation after independence because they wanted to join Europe too? Erm...no. They did it to simplify their currency structure, just like we eventually did, all of our own accord.

Yes it is, the UK was one of the last countries to go decimal whether this was part of a  hidden agenda or totally voluntary could very well be open to debate perhaps we'll all find out when and if the files are ever released into the public domain

and as I said earlier  and pointed out by Syme no more