Just seen Oldham’s goal

[BillyStubbsTears]

...on video. Hadn’t realised yesterday just how awful our defending was.

1) When their central midfielder started the move, we had EIGHT players behind the ball.

2) Three of those players ran towards him (plus Mandeville who made a half-hearted attempt to challenge him from behind).

3) Kongolo charging in meant that Mason was left covering both Craig Davies and the overlapping Dan Gardner.

4) The latter was therefore left in acres of space to pop a cross in to wherever he wanted.

5) Even then, we had EIGHT players in the box to Oldham’s four as the ball came in.

6) Even allowing for Butler’s unfortunate slip, it’s inexcusable that no Donny player came close to make a challenge either for the original header, or for Doyle’s finish.

Shocking ball-watching all through the move. Total lack of positional discipline or awareness of opposition movement.

I’d single two out for particular criticism.

1) Kongolo. He went rushing in at the start of the move, taking up a position near Holloway and leaving Mason out numbered. Then as the ball went out wide, he totally lost contact with Holloway, who ran into the box to lay on the goal whilst Kongolo was ambling around watching the wing play develop.

2) Baudry had Doyle marked as the ball came in. Then he inexplicably went rushing in to challenge Holloway, despite having no chance of getting within 2 yards of him before Holloway headed the ball on. Headed the ball on to the now unmarked Doyle to score.

Concentration and discipline. Both badly lacking from both those players.

[drfchound]

It would be interesting to hear what you think about our goal BST.
Who was picking up Butler and who let him go and get a free unchallenged header.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I thought it was good movement from the Rovers players. Different case entirely to the Oldham goal. Our free kick was clearly practiced with movement designed to lose defenders. Whiteman and Butler ended up two on one and Whiteman neatly blocked the movement of the defender who was attempting to covering Butler.

That happens at week-drilled free kicks. That’s why teams spend ages practicing them. What happened for Oldham’s goal was a series of mistakes in open play. Not excellent movement from them. Lack of concentration from us.

[Filo]

...on video. Hadn’t realised yesterday just how awful our defending was.

1) When their central midfielder started the move, we had EIGHT players behind the ball.

2) Three of those players ran towards him (plus Mandeville who made a half-hearted attempt to challenge him from behind).

3) Kongolo charging in meant that Mason was left covering both Craig Davies and the overlapping Dan Gardner.

4) The latter was therefore left in acres of space to pop a cross in to wherever he wanted.

5) Even then, we had EIGHT players in the box to Oldham’s four as the ball came in.

6) Even allowing for Butler’s unfortunate slip, it’s inexcusable that no Donny player came close to make a challenge either for the original header, or for Doyle’s finish.

Shocking ball-watching all through the move. Total lack of positional discipline or awareness of opposition movement.

I’d single two out for particular criticism.

1) Kongolo. He went rushing in at the start of the move, taking up a position near Holloway and leaving Mason out numbered. Then as the ball went out wide, he totally lost contact with Holloway, who ran into the box to lay on the goal whilst Kongolo was ambling around watching the wing play develop.

2) Baudry had Doyle marked as the ball came in. Then he inexplicably went rushing in to challenge Holloway, despite having no chance of getting within 2 yards of him before Holloway headed the ball on. Headed the ball on to the now unmarked Doyle to score.

Concentration and discipline. Both badly lacking from both those players.

Kongolo should n't even have been on the pitch when we decided to defend a one goal lead, he's a total liability defending, he can go back for me, has n't shown enough going forward for me either, let him develop and drop b*llocks elsewhere

[drfchound]

I thought it was good movement from the Rovers players. Different case entirely to the Oldham goal. Our free kick was clearly practiced with movement designed to lose defenders. Whiteman and Butler ended up two on one and Whiteman neatly blocked the movement of the defender who was attempting to covering Butler.

That happens at week-drilled free kicks. That’s why teams spend ages practicing them. What happened for Oldham’s goal was a series of mistakes in open play. Not excellent movement from them. Lack of concentration from us.

I agree that it was a well worked free kick, I said so at the time.
However, if we had conceded that one I have no doubt that the defenders would have been blamed for not going with the runners.

[DonnyOsmond]

...on video. Hadn’t realised yesterday just how awful our defending was.

1) When their central midfielder started the move, we had EIGHT players behind the ball.

2) Three of those players ran towards him (plus Mandeville who made a half-hearted attempt to challenge him from behind).

3) Kongolo charging in meant that Mason was left covering both Craig Davies and the overlapping Dan Gardner.

4) The latter was therefore left in acres of space to pop a cross in to wherever he wanted.

5) Even then, we had EIGHT players in the box to Oldham’s four as the ball came in.

6) Even allowing for Butler’s unfortunate slip, it’s inexcusable that no Donny player came close to make a challenge either for the original header, or for Doyle’s finish.

Shocking ball-watching all through the move. Total lack of positional discipline or awareness of opposition movement.

I’d single two out for particular criticism.

1) Kongolo. He went rushing in at the start of the move, taking up a position near Holloway and leaving Mason out numbered. Then as the ball went out wide, he totally lost contact with Holloway, who ran into the box to lay on the goal whilst Kongolo was ambling around watching the wing play develop.

2) Baudry had Doyle marked as the ball came in. Then he inexplicably went rushing in to challenge Holloway, despite having no chance of getting within 2 yards of him before Holloway headed the ball on. Headed the ball on to the now unmarked Doyle to score.

Concentration and discipline. Both badly lacking from both those players.

Kongolo should n't even have been on the pitch when we decided to defend a one goal lead, he's a total liability defending, he can go back for me, has n't shown enough going forward for me either, let him develop and drop b*llocks elsewhere

I'm terrified when I see us with a set piece and he's one of the men back as he always cocks up a tackle or a pass to let them through. I'd swap him in January for someone who knows what they're doing.

[selby]

 Loan players do they have to come on or pay their wages?
   Calder did it for me,he used to come on for five/ten minutes for no reason at all other than we had to play him or pay.

[RedJ]

It'll depend on the deal, won't it. I'd be amazed if Conor Grant's deal last season didn't include a financial penalty if he didn't play when fit as he was undroppable despite being absolutely shite.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

For me, and many sat around me, the sub of Whiteman for Kongolo was the wrong one. He could have let that one alone. Also, I would rather have seen Garratt left on as both full backs had a grip a that stage and were preventing the crosses.

[GazLaz]

Bringing Kongolo on to help see out the game was a big mistake.

[The Red Baron]

I didn't see the point of either the second or third substitution. Is Kongolo really going to defend better than Whiteman? Also, having persisted with Garratt for 83 minutes why replace him with a centre back unless you were going to a back three?

May was subbed because his race was run after an hour, which is understandable. However Beestin had also gone before the end and was left on to tread water. That also begs a few questions about the fitness of our players, and is something I'd be addressing if I was in charge.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I could just about see the point of the Kongolo substitution. They’d changed their style and we were getting hammered down our right flank with Whiteman offering no protection to Mason. Kongolo might have worked if we’d been able to get onto the front foot and push back Bryan the No 40 who was starting off many of their attacks.. As it was, we didn’t.

I thought Garrett had a shocker but I agree that I’d have left him on at 83 mins and taken Beestin off for Baudry. Course, folk would have moaned that that was sitting back...

[Filo]

I could just about see the point of the Kongolo substitution. They’d changed their style and we were getting hammered down our right flank with Whiteman offering no protection to Mason. Kongolo might have worked if we’d been able to get onto the front foot and push back Bryan the No 40 who was starting off many of their attacks.. As it was, we didn’t.

I thought Garrett had a shocker but I agree that I’d have left him on at 83 mins and taken Beestin off for Baudry. Course, folk would have moaned that that was sitting back...

Do you really think Kongolo would have offered protection?

Without the ball he's a passenger, Dutch football has a grim future if he's the best they've got

He will never ever play a first team game for Man City

[TheFunk]

I didn't see the point of either the second or third substitution. Is Kongolo really going to defend better than Whiteman? Also, having persisted with Garratt for 83 minutes why replace him with a centre back unless you were going to a back three?

May was subbed because his race was run after an hour, which is understandable. However Beestin had also gone before the end and was left on to tread water. That also begs a few questions about the fitness of our players, and is something I'd be addressing if I was in charge.

Unless i'm mistaken we seem to have a new fitness coach. Certainly the last 2 home games Ben Rome has been absent. Hopefully this will lead to improvement in our fitness levels as we do seem to be behind every team I've seen this season. In fact in pre season Tadcaster  Albion's fitness levels were greater than ours.

[wing commander]

    I will say one thing for Saunders he brought in Mal Purchase for our fitness and we were the fittest team in the league..We are losing goals at the end due to fatigue both mental and physical...
     Anyone got his phone number...He would be the best January signing we could make..

[The Red Baron]

I could just about see the point of the Kongolo substitution. They’d changed their style and we were getting hammered down our right flank with Whiteman offering no protection to Mason. Kongolo might have worked if we’d been able to get onto the front foot and push back Bryan the No 40 who was starting off many of their attacks.. As it was, we didn’t.

I thought Garrett had a shocker but I agree that I’d have left him on at 83 mins and taken Beestin off for Baudry. Course, folk would have moaned that that was sitting back...

Triumph of hope over experience re Kongolo, I'm afraid BST. I think I would have rather stuck a rocket behind Whiteman and hope it had the desired effect.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I think it shows that with the injuries (of which the list is now getting quite big) the options are less helpful than they could be.

We needed pace off the bench up front and some strength in to the middle - neither happened and it is a problem.  Equally some players who've had little game time are struggling to last games and others lack experience.  We certainly IMO need a few changes in January and that would make a big difference.

[dickos1]

I didn't see the point of either the second or third substitution. Is Kongolo really going to defend better than Whiteman? Also, having persisted with Garratt for 83 minutes why replace him with a centre back unless you were going to a back three?

May was subbed because his race was run after an hour, which is understandable. However Beestin had also gone before the end and was left on to tread water. That also begs a few questions about the fitness of our players, and is something I'd be addressing if I was in charge.

Unless i'm mistaken we seem to have a new fitness coach. Certainly the last 2 home games Ben Rome has been absent. Hopefully this will lead to improvement in our fitness levels as we do seem to be behind every team I've seen this season. In fact in pre season Tadcaster  Albion's fitness levels were greater than ours.

Yes ben has left the club

[BillyStubbsTears]

Filo

No. I wasn’t saying he was put on to offer protection. The only explanation is that we put him on to try to give us more going forward down the right. I thought it wasn’t a good at the time and I still do now, but I don’t think it was a black and white case. We were starting to get hammered down their left and Ferguson had to do something. But we don’t have many options with the squad stretched so thin. He could have taken Beestin off, but Baudry on, gone to 5-4-1 and given Mason more cover on the inside. But then folk would have complained that he was sitting back.

[GazLaz]

I didn't see the point of either the second or third substitution. Is Kongolo really going to defend better than Whiteman? Also, having persisted with Garratt for 83 minutes why replace him with a centre back unless you were going to a back three?

May was subbed because his race was run after an hour, which is understandable. However Beestin had also gone before the end and was left on to tread water. That also begs a few questions about the fitness of our players, and is something I'd be addressing if I was in charge.

Unless i'm mistaken we seem to have a new fitness coach. Certainly the last 2 home games Ben Rome has been absent. Hopefully this will lead to improvement in our fitness levels as we do seem to be behind every team I've seen this season. In fact in pre season Tadcaster  Albion's fitness levels were greater than ours.

Yes ben has left the club

Yes that his own choice or the clubs?

[Filo]

Filo

No. I wasn’t saying he was put on to offer protection. The only explanation is that we put him on to try to give us more going forward down the right. I thought it wasn’t a good at the time and I still do now, but I don’t think it was a black and white case. We were starting to get hammered down their left and Ferguson had to do something. But we don’t have many options with the squad stretched so thin. He could have taken Beestin off, but Baudry on, gone to 5-4-1 and given Mason more cover on the inside. But then folk would have complained that he was sitting back.

We sat back from the miment we took the lead with half hour to go, no way on gods earth are we capable of sitting on a one goal lead for that length of time

[Campsall rover]

The substitutions were bizarre. Beestin was totally knackered so he leaves him on and takes Whiteman off who looked OK and brings on Kongolo who quite frankly cannot defend and has no positional sense whatsoever. We were almost playing with 9 men at the end as Beestin had "gone" and Kongolo was a liability.
Against MK Dons the substitutions were inspired and changed the game in our favour.
Against Oldham I am afraid DF completely lost the plot.

If He persists in starting May and not Mandeville then relegation is a distinct possibility as we are quite clearly not scoring enough goals. Mandeville knows where the net is and for all of May's hard work and running he is still work in progress and should be used as an impact player off the bench if required.
DF's stubbeness is going to cost us relegation again and his job.

[Alan Southstand]

Mandeville played for 30 mins and had no impact whatsoever.

[drfchound]

He did consistently pass to Oldham players so be fair.

[Campsall rover]

Don't be stupid there was no midfield to give him the ball.
He was told to stay up front that was obvious. No service so what's he supposed to do?

[drfchound]

Don't be stupid there was no midfield to give him the ball.
He was told to stay up front that was obvious. No service so what's he supposed to do?

Who do you think you are, calling me stupid?

You say no one gave him the ball, so how come he was able to give it away so often.

[Campsall rover]

My comment was not a personal one just my observation of how I saw
Mandeville's role when he came on. It was more specific to AlanSouthstand's previous post saying Mandeville was ineffective when he came on.