Lewis Guy Impersonation

[rtid88]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43472827

Up there with Lewis's best this.

[idler]

That is one reason why I'm falling out of love with football.
He should be banned for a season with no pay; and the ref should go to spec savers.

[bobbymax]

That is one reason why I'm falling out of love with football.
He should be banned for a season with no pay; and the ref should go to spec savers.

Take the win off them and give him a three-month ban unpaid. That'll make them think twice!

[Superspy]

Being a bit controversial here...but if he hadn't done the theatrical dive to the floor...should it still have been a penalty for the attempted leg sweep by the other player? We've seen\been told numerous times that a foul can be about the 'intent' without any contact.

[idler]

I can't blame the lad for doing it.

It's 1-1, 85th minute, you're in a dangerous position inside the area in a big match and you try something out of the ordinary to gain your team an advantage? He's got away with it (although he'll probably be on the naughty list of every referee in the country now and it'll be much tougher for him to win a penalty in the future as every referee will be wary) and he's done his job as his team have won the match.

The referee is the one at fault as he's made the decision to give it. If the lad doesn't get away with it, and the ref does his job policy, the lad gets a yellow card.

It's annoying if you're on the wrong end of it but that's life.

So you are in a pub with your wallet showing.
The lad at the side of you has no money but wants a drink and a meal.
He pinches your wallet and has both. You are left skint, hungry and thirsty.
You can't blame him though as he saw the opportunity?
Different scenario but same result.
Sometimes I think that the world has gone crackers.

[IDM]

It's not the player's job to cheat with the intent to get away with it..

Suarez in the WC handball on the line - he was well aware he would get sent off and didn't try to con the ref.  That's taking one for the team, and the outcome was covered by the rules..

This dive was an attempt to con the ref - that's the difference..

[idler]

It's not comparable.

The player's job is to win the game for his team. The ref's job is to make the correct decisions.

Players won't make it easy for referees by behaving themselves (they haven't for years) so they need to use whatever resources available to them to reach the correct decision, or when they don't, have a body that takes appropriate retrospective action.

I can think of two incidents involving Luis Suarez in big games where he's been instinctive, not morally great, and he and his team have benefitted.

I'll never moan about a player bending the rules, using his initiative or instincts, to manufacture something in a game. I'll moan about referees not doing their job properly, or whichever body, not supporting them properly all day long.

Follow your football logic to the nth degree and football will be dead within a generation.

[Pancho Regan]

All I can say is you are doing a great job in living up to your chosen avatar.

[The Red Baron]

That Bradford substitute the other night ran him close. Although the ref wasn't conned I was really surprised the yellow card didn't come out.

[IDM]

It's nothing to do with trolls or any of that crap - it's down to referees to get the decisions correct.

If they can't do it, maybe they shouldn't be in the job?

There's lots of things that some people will class as cheating that go on at games all the time. Example: some clubs instruct ball boys to slow or quicken the game, depending on the score, and get the YTs to do it. It happens all over.

Is that 'cheating' or just a benefit of being at home?

Yes that’s cheating of a kind, but the refs should have the balls to add on some more game time..

[Donnywolf]

.... and another great reason for having a timed 30 minutes each half. Time keeping is one less job for the Ref and someone stops and starts the Game clock every time play stops and each time it starts again

No fake injuries / no sending Subs to furthest point before calling them off / Subs dont have to clap their fans shake the Refs hand and walk as slowly as they can /  elaborate goal celebrations with players forming pyramids or pretending to Row a boat / keepers on 3k a week wont need to let balls passed to them by ball boys go under their feet or through their hands / and then move the ball three times and kick the posts

Bring it on because I for one CANT WAIT for an end to all the cheating / gamesmanship especially of the kind in the OP. As Idler says above the Game will be dead within 10 years if the cheating continues unchecked. There is no excuse - we all might as well take up watching Poker there are that many bluffers in the game now. It is supposed to be a game of skill (the beautiful game) NOT a murder mystery weekend

[Pancho Regan]

I can't blame the lad for doing it.

The referee is the one at fault as he's made the decision to give it.

It's annoying if you're on the wrong end of it but that's life.

So, to summarise your standpoint on such matters:

The perpetrator of the wrong-doing (i.e. the cheat) isn't to blame. The blame lies with those whose job it is to enforce the rules.....

What a sad blueprint for the sport, if everyone was to espouse your values.

[weststander]

.... and another great reason for having a timed 30 minutes each half. Time keeping is one less job for the Ref and someone stops and starts the Game clock every time play stops and each time it starts again

No fake injuries / no sending Subs to furthest point before calling them off / Subs dont have to clap their fans shake the Refs hand and walk as slowly as they can /  elaborate goal celebrations with players forming pyramids or pretending to Row a boat / keepers on 3k a week wont need to let balls passed to them by ball boys go under their feet or through their hands / and then move the ball three times and kick the posts

Bring it on because I for one CANT WAIT for an end to all the cheating / gamesmanship especially of the kind in the OP. As Idler says above the Game will be dead within 10 years if the cheating continues unchecked. There is no excuse - we all might as well take up watching Poker there are that many bluffers in the game now. It is supposed to be a game of skill (the beautiful game) NOT a murder mystery weekend

I agree on every point you make apart from the limit of 30 mins per half. I don’t get why the fans who pay for 45 mins should get less

[Bristol Red Rover]

The simple solution here is to make cheating a more serious offence with punishments reflecting that.

Eg definite cheating for a penalty being a red card, 3 match ban, 30 hours of some kind of community service and 2 weeks pay fine (going directly to grass roots footy). That could be assessed after a game too.

Sometimes there will be an element of doubt so in that case a ref may simply give a yellow and it can be looked into more after the game with that yellow being raised to a red, a 4 match ban etc etc.

Incidents that the ref missed at the time could also be assessed after a game and in the case of a cheating pen, a goal deducted on top of the other punishments PLUS any goals scored by that player after the incident being wiped out.

Other aspects of cheating could all have their graded punishments.

 

[Glyn_Wigley]

I can't blame the lad for doing it.

The referee is the one at fault as he's made the decision to give it.

It's annoying if you're on the wrong end of it but that's life.

So, to summarise your standpoint on such matters:

The perpetrator of the wrong-doing (i.e. the cheat) isn't to blame. The blame lies with those whose job it is to enforce the rules.....

What a sad blueprint for the sport, if everyone was to espouse your values.

Aye, a burglar is just doing everything he can to put food on his table him nicking your stuff is understandable. The crime is the police's fault for not catching him!

[Superspy]

.... and another great reason for having a timed 30 minutes each half. Time keeping is one less job for the Ref and someone stops and starts the Game clock every time play stops and each time it starts again

No fake injuries / no sending Subs to furthest point before calling them off / Subs dont have to clap their fans shake the Refs hand and walk as slowly as they can /  elaborate goal celebrations with players forming pyramids or pretending to Row a boat / keepers on 3k a week wont need to let balls passed to them by ball boys go under their feet or through their hands / and then move the ball three times and kick the posts

Bring it on because I for one CANT WAIT for an end to all the cheating / gamesmanship especially of the kind in the OP. As Idler says above the Game will be dead within 10 years if the cheating continues unchecked. There is no excuse - we all might as well take up watching Poker there are that many bluffers in the game now. It is supposed to be a game of skill (the beautiful game) NOT a murder mystery weekend

I agree on every point you make apart from the limit of 30 mins per half. I don’t get why the fans who pay for 45 mins should get less

But we don't get 45 minutes as it is. The average in the PL this season is 53-58 minutes total. So 30 mins per half with the clock stopped every time the ball is out of play is roughly equivalent to a 90 minute match where it isn't.

[Donnywolf]

Spot on Superspy.

The average time the ball is in Play is roughly 60 minutes (Google it) and so the proposal is to have an actual Game Clock like American Football / Basketball etc so you get the same 60 minutes but without the s**t I mentioned earlier

Not now kato did a Thread recently on this as he had timed the Walsall game and the ball was in if I remember rightly for LESS than 50 minutes

Arsenal led the way last Season and they averaged 58  minutes whilst Crystal Palace made it just 52

Here is what the Sun says https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/3832119/football-lawmakers-considering-60-minute-matches-more-game-time/

[bobjimwilly]

I'll never moan about a player bending the rules, using his initiative or instincts, to manufacture something in a game.

Attempted to deceive the referee isn't "bending" the rules, it is breaking the rules, plain and simple:

There are different circumstances when a player must be cautioned for unsporting behaviour including if a player:
attempts to deceive the referee e.g. by feigning injury or pretending to have been fouled (simulation)

http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct

So let's not have any of this "he's just doing what he can to win" - a player who dive or pretends to have been fouled is a cheat, simple as that.

[Beerseller]

On a slight tangent, I worked with a Chilean guy for a few weeks some years ago.  In one of our regular football chats I asked him his view on the Maradona hand of god incident which had occurred only perhaps two years prior.  His reply was of course it was handball but look how well Maradona used his skill at cheating - and this from a guy who in footballing terms saw Argentina a little like we see Germany.

He laughed away my protests saying we English over- valued fair play and didn't see cheating as a skill to be relished. 

Whether or not that would be a common Chilean/South American response I don't know, but it was an eye-opener.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Just because the average game time we're getting is less than 60kins per game doesn't make it right. We are being short changed and it`s been a trend for many years now. There's probably more free kicks in games now and it generally takes an eternity to take the kicks as teams get organised.  It's the same with some throw in, especially for those teams with long throw specialists.

The cheats prospering along with too many stoppages means the football is being sucked out of the game.

[bobjimwilly]

I'd still point the finger firmly at the referee though if he can't do his job properly and make the correct decision during a game.

That's absurd? For a start, if a referee doesn't make the correct decision, it's not because he's not doing his job properly (most of the time) - he can only judge on what he and the other officials see.  Second, you're saying if someone get's away with cheating they shouldn't have the finger pointed at them? Of course they should! It should be highlighted post-game that they cheated to dissuade them from doing it in future.

[Superspy]

Just because the average game time we're getting is less than 60kins per game doesn't make it right. We are being short changed and it`s been a trend for many years now. There's probably more free kicks in games now and it generally takes an eternity to take the kicks as teams get organised.  It's the same with some throw in, especially for those teams with long throw specialists.

The cheats prospering along with too many stoppages means the football is being sucked out of the game.

So based on that, surely a clock stop game is better (regardless of how long the half is) because in terms of value for money you know EXACTLY what you're getting every time you go with respect to the amount of time the ball is in play?

[IDM]

With the exception of VAR, the officials can only give what they see.. if players are blocking their line  of sight, or if they glance the other way just at the wrong time, things will get missed.

It is the players responsibility not to cheat!

[Bristol Red Rover]

With the exception of VAR, the officials can only give what they see.. if players are blocking their line  of sight, or if they glance the other way just at the wrong time, things will get missed.

It is the players responsibility not to cheat!

Not every player will be honest though.

So post match vid evidence, as I posted above, should be used. And used with enough venom to dissuade cheating.