Marquis in defence of

[tommy toes]

Look, the debate is f*** all to do with whether he misses chances or not, or whether he's generally our No1 asset,  it's whether he should have gone off yesterday as he was totally ineffective and having a mare.
Me and a few others think he should have been the first to be subbed.

[sha66y]

The reason these threads become over inflated with misdirection is because readers are NOT reading the questions or statements, before they submit a response....

90% of responses so far are mere knee jerk reactions to misinterpreted threads....nobody in there right mind would dream of not playing a fit Marquis...NOBODY! ...what’s been asked is , “ why doesn’t Marquis ever get subbed “ ...I’m sure he wants to be 100% involved,

 but on occasion when he does fall short of his and our expectations,  the need to “ shake up the forward line”  at some point must involve JM being subbed....

However as I said in the initial post...throwing historical stats at a simple question to create misdirection is tantamount to not having the nads to actually read and understand it.....

No one disputes JM is the king of goals....but a few do wonder why he is never subbed when he is clearly off his game....

[sha66y]

Are

The reason these threads become over inflated with misdirection is because readers are NOT reading the questions or statements, before they submit a response....

90% of responses so far are mere knee jerk reactions to misinterpreted threads....nobody in there right mind would dream of not playing a fit Marquis...NOBODY! ...what’s been asked is , “ why doesn’t Marquis ever get subbed “ ...I’m sure he wants to be 100% involved,

 but on occasion when he does fall short of his and our expectations,  the need to “ shake up the forward line”  at some point must involve JM being subbed....

However as I said in the initial post...throwing historical stats at a simple question to create misdirection is tantamount to not having the nads to actually read and understand it.....

No one disputes JM is the king of goals....but a few do wonder why he is never subbed when he is clearly off his game....

I'll throw one at you then.

A manager subs off his best striker with a record that is comparably brilliant to everyone else who plays in the same position as him in the league. The scoreline is 0-0, 0-1 or whatever, but it's in the balance and you need/badly want a goal...

Five minutes later, the gilt-edged chance arrives and the substitute striker makes a meal of it, wastes it, and the scoreline remains the same.

You'll then get X amount of cockroaches in the stands screaming 'Marquis would have scored that!' or criticising the gaffer saying/shouting 'Why did you take Marquis off? or hurling their frustration towards the poor sub striker, who's come on, got a chance and not scored - a fate which happens to every player, even the best.

If McCann or Marquis read this, just keep doing what you're doing because to be sixth in a tough league after 30 odd games, having scored close to 100 goals this season, safe already from the drop, in with a chance of promotion and with the second highest scorer in the league who's market value is going up and up and up, something is clearly going right!

Enough suck up b*ll shit anyway, just stating facts - the criticism from some quarters is over the top!

you actually reading this thread in context ?
You have actually just proven my point in its entirety.....NOBODY is criticising JMs ability to score goals, NOBODY believes we have anyone better to lead the line....get it? That’s called reaffirmation, or agreement...

But your mini narrative lacks a B side, ...what if JM gets subbed and Wilkes moves into the centre with let’s say Sadlier coming on for John,

It’s 0-0 as you allude to, but the new pace up front creates 2 good goals and we run out winners.....

Is that an inspirational substitution by the manager?

Not every line goes in one direction, and had said on numerous occasion, nobody wants an “ on form”.   JM, not in the starting eleven, he is the first name I would write on the team sheet.....but if things needed shaking up and I could sense he wasn’t influencing the game, I’d like to think that subbing him was not going to create WW3

[Mustapha-Dump]

He doesn’t need any defending, he’s a player we will struggle to replace if we stay at this level. He’s a top player and strikers can do a job without scoring, he missed a great chance yesterday, the best chance either team had to win but no he shouldn’t have been subbed. For me having played and watched the game religiously for 20 years, you only sub a player off when there is someone better on the bench, which there wasn’t and isn’t going to be

[sha66y]

Are

The reason these threads become over inflated with misdirection is because readers are NOT reading the questions or statements, before they submit a response....

90% of responses so far are mere knee jerk reactions to misinterpreted threads....nobody in there right mind would dream of not playing a fit Marquis...NOBODY! ...what’s been asked is , “ why doesn’t Marquis ever get subbed “ ...I’m sure he wants to be 100% involved,

 but on occasion when he does fall short of his and our expectations,  the need to “ shake up the forward line”  at some point must involve JM being subbed....

However as I said in the initial post...throwing historical stats at a simple question to create misdirection is tantamount to not having the nads to actually read and understand it.....

No one disputes JM is the king of goals....but a few do wonder why he is never subbed when he is clearly off his game....

I'll throw one at you then.

A manager subs off his best striker with a record that is comparably brilliant to everyone else who plays in the same position as him in the league. The scoreline is 0-0, 0-1 or whatever, but it's in the balance and you need/badly want a goal...

Five minutes later, the gilt-edged chance arrives and the substitute striker makes a meal of it, wastes it, and the scoreline remains the same.

You'll then get X amount of cockroaches in the stands screaming 'Marquis would have scored that!' or criticising the gaffer saying/shouting 'Why did you take Marquis off? or hurling their frustration towards the poor sub striker, who's come on, got a chance and not scored - a fate which happens to every player, even the best.

If McCann or Marquis read this, just keep doing what you're doing because to be sixth in a tough league after 30 odd games, having scored close to 100 goals this season, safe already from the drop, in with a chance of promotion and with the second highest scorer in the league who's market value is going up and up and up, something is clearly going right!

Enough suck up b*ll shit anyway, just stating facts - the criticism from some quarters is over the top!

you actually reading this thread in context ?
You have actually just proven my point in its entirety.....NOBODY is criticising JMs ability to score goals, NOBODY believes we have anyone better to lead the line....get it? That’s called reaffirmation, or agreement...

But your mini narrative lacks a B side, ...what if JM gets subbed and Wilkes moves into the centre with let’s say Sadlier coming on for John,

It’s 0-0 as you allude to, but the new pace up front creates 2 good goals and we run out winners.....

Is that an inspirational substitution by the manager?

Not every line goes in one direction, and had said on numerous occasion, nobody wants an “ on form”.   JM, not in the starting eleven, he is the first name I would write on the team sheet.....but if things needed shaking up and I could sense he wasn’t influencing the game, I’d like to think that subbing him was not going to create WW3

Nobody is criticising Marquis or questioning him?

There's calls for him to be subbed, one person is saying he's selfish and doesn't pass and doesn't take chances on another thread, and it's assassination of his skill/character talent.

Then there's the whole fiasco earlier in the season in and around the time of the Chorley replay, when he was getting unjust stick and he reacted to it over a couple of games, not clapping fans, etc.

The phrase 'Careful what you wish for' can easily be applied to some of those happy to slag him off.

There's a load of things that can happen after a substitution, but for me, when you're needing a result, as long as he isn't injured/suspended, you want best striker on the pitch to put away a chance. He might miss one or make a wrong decision, but when he's the second highest scorer in the league - that's justified enough reason in my book to leave him on.

If it's 3-0 and the game is basically done, or it's 2-0 and he's on a yellow card, then maybe take him off and save him for the next game - at that point it should be about game-management as the attackers, theoretically, have done their jobs to be in that position anyway!

At lastttttttttt !!!
An answer that makes sense....so the best time to sub JM is when we are ahead convincingly and want to rest him for the next battle......yeah I can live with that, ...it’s not ideal but works for me......lol

[sha66y]

He doesn’t need any defending, he’s a player we will struggle to replace if we stay at this level. He’s a top player and strikers can do a job without scoring, he missed a great chance yesterday, the best chance either team had to win but no he shouldn’t have been subbed. For me having played and watched the game religiously for 20 years, you only sub a player off when there is someone better on the bench, which there wasn’t and isn’t going to be

Just a quick response....if the player on the bench is good! and John is having a stinker!!
Would you not make that substitution ??

[Mustapha-Dump]

I would make it if we had a better option on the bench yes, the only player I think who could replace Marquis off the bench and do a similar job is Wilks but rightly he’s usually on the pitch too

[1879Rovers]

It's crackers!

The lad averages a goal nearly every other game and he works his socks off up front.

He will be gone in the summer and I look forward to us trying to find another 20 goal a season striker because you don't get many, just look at our record at Doncaster.

[Bentley Bullet]

Sometimes, not always, but sometimes, I despair. Really I do.

[scawsby steve]

I cannot believe the stick he gets for a rare off colour performance - he is the talisman of the team, his energy levels are incredible, he’s remarkably fit & never stops running and chasing down defenders - the question was posed in a previous thread about why he never gets subbed - I will tell you why, it would only benefit the other teams back line as they wouldn’t be under persistent and constant harrying from JM they ie the defenders would love it if JM was ever subbed because his all action style forces defenders into making mistakes and thus helping us score goals.

Rarely have we had a striker who can do what Marquis does eg holding the ball up magnificently and still weighs in with 20+ goals a season, he is the complete striker at this level & any other side in our league would take him and I’m sure some Championship clubs will be thinking about making us an offer come the summer - I tell you what if he does move on at the end of this season, people will come on here moaning how we need a striker who can bag goals and hold the ball up as well JM does both & he does it very well

I don’t see anyone giving JM stick for no apparent reason...as you say he has so many good qualities, however if he is having a bad game ( which is admittedly quite rare) then the Manager should look at replacing him, rather than hoping he comes good, Copps is undoubtedly our best technical player, truly gifted, yet if his game is not working right the manager replaces him....it appears that a “ messiah complex “ has seeped into a few of our supporters blinkering them to certain facts....the best players in the world get subbed if they have a stinker....it’s not personal ...it’s part of how a team works....

So lose the Marquis vendetta theme,  some supporters are merely questioning why he doesn’t get subbed.....

Because we haven't another orthodox centre forward on the books.

[BillyStubbsTears]

There are perfectly simple reasons why he is never substituted.

1) No matter how badly he plays, he never puts in less than 100% and always gives the defenders a torrid time. That in itself is worth a huge amount to the team.

2) No matter how badly he plays, there is no-one in the side more likely to come up with the vital goal. He's done it time and again. Not looked threatening all match, then BANG.

3) He almost never plays badly.

Simple as that really. We've got a phenomenon here. Some folk won't properly understands it until he's gone.

[Bentley Bullet]

1) All players in general give 100%.

2) No matter how badly he plays, there is no-one in the side more likely to come up with the vital goal. This is true because everyone else who plays badly gets subbed!

3) Lots of players almost never play badly, but still get subbed when they do. Sometimes they get subbed for tactical reasons when they haven't played badly.

[selby]

  Billy you have got it spot on.

[Avsuptem]

His hoofing it over the bar from close range v Scunthorpe looked awful when I saw it on you Tube but the Radio Sheffield commentary at the time blamed it on an awkward bounce. No one can deny his work rate and goals scored and every great striker that ever lived misses plenty as well as scores plenty. I do think JM's score ratio is greatly enhanced by the way Grant MCann sets up the team and by the talent we have in the squad at present, I doubt he would have scored so many if he were playing for Pompey or Posh. If we had not picked him up he might have become another journeyman striker instead of a 2 million pound + asset This is not a criticism, I don't see how anyone can criticise a player who puts in a fantastic shift game after game, definitely one of our all time greats.

[Prez]

Anyone see Lacazette missed chance yesterday for Arsenal?

Was just as bad if not worse and he is a top class striker.

Happens to them all.

[Filo]

1) All players in general give 100%.

2) No matter how badly he plays, there is no-one in the side more likely to come up with the vital goal. This is true because everyone else who plays badly gets subbed!

3) Lots of players almost never play badly, but still get subbed when they do. Sometimes they get subbed for tactical reasons when they haven't played badly.

I’ve come to the conclusion you argue against every post of BST, irrespective of if you agree with him or not

[Bentley Bullet]

Filo. I suggest you compare how many times I've agreed with BST to how many times he has agreed with me. Then reassess your conclusion.

[scawsby steve]

I'll agree with the people who are knocking Marquis on this thread WHEN they can tell me where we can find another striker at this level who's scoring rate for the last 3 seasons is almost 1 in 2, and WHEN they can tell me who the orthodox centre forward is, who can come off the bench to replace him.

[sha66y]

I'll agree with the people who are knocking Marquis on this thread WHEN they can tell me where we can find another striker at this level who's scoring rate for the last 3 seasons is almost 1 in 2, and WHEN they can tell me who the orthodox centre forward is, who can come off the bench to replace him.

IF .... you NEVER try another EXISTING forward in the central position, how the hell are you ever going to know if we have someone to fill that role....it’s absurd to suggest that the existing player who has been there for 2 years is irreplaceable just because you say so....it’s obvious that he is the main goal scorer because no one else has ever been given the opportunity, to see if they can do the job....
Jeeeeeezz, how illogical can some people be....this thread belongs in a Star Wars Bar....

[IDM]

We have other forwards in the first team squad, but who’s the other centre forward we could try.??

[Bentley Bullet]

What happened to the three players for every position project?

[sha66y]

We have other forwards in the first team squad, but who’s the other centre forward we could try.??

Wilkes centre
Copps, Sadlier, orvthe loanee either side...

Is Wilkes so unable to put himself about in the central role ??
I mean.....he is a nuisance, physically intimidating, strong, and can keep the ball tight when under pressure...

Is it really beyond him to actually do the job?

[sha66y]

And why should we play in that formation ?

We can not just rely on JM to be there forever,

at some point we need to try something different just in case of injury ( god forbid)

[dickos1]

I'll agree with the people who are knocking Marquis on this thread WHEN they can tell me where we can find another striker at this level who's scoring rate for the last 3 seasons is almost 1 in 2, and WHEN they can tell me who the orthodox centre forward is, who can come off the bench to replace him.

IF .... you NEVER try another EXISTING forward in the central position, how the hell are you ever going to know if we have someone to fill that role....it’s absurd to suggest that the existing player who has been there for 2 years is irreplaceable just because you say so....it’s obvious that he is the main goal scorer because no one else has ever been given the opportunity, to see if they can do the job....
Jeeeeeezz, how illogical can some people be....this thread belongs in a Star Wars Bar....

By that logic, spurs should drop Kane and give someone else a go just to see if they’re better

[scawsby steve]

We have other forwards in the first team squad, but who’s the other centre forward we could try.??

Wilkes centre
Copps, Sadlier, orvthe loanee either side...

Is Wilkes so unable to put himself about in the central role ??
I mean.....he is a nuisance, physically intimidating, strong, and can keep the ball tight when under pressure...

Is it really beyond him to actually do the job?

Do you actually know anything about the concept of someone having the ability to play with their back to goal, holding the ball up?; obviously not.

[drfchound]

Wouldn’t it be amazing if McCann had thought about having a practice game with someone besides JM playing the main striker role.

 

[scawsby steve]

Wouldn’t it be amazing if McCann had thought about having a practice game with someone besides JM playing the main striker role.

 

It would Hound, but I honestly can't see anyone in our squad being able to. Maybe this is a problem GM needs to sort out in the Summer.

[drfchound]

Wouldn’t it be amazing if McCann had thought about having a practice game with someone besides JM playing the main striker role.

 

It would Hound, but I honestly can't see anyone in our squad being able to. Maybe this is a problem GM needs to sort out in the Summer.

I was being sarcastic mate.
It might be sorted in the summer though, especially if some of our fans have it their way.