Scottish Undependence

[BillyStubbsTears]

That was actually a typo, but it's so apt, I figured I'd leave it.

It appears that the Scots are once again heading towards insisting on independence. Except for:

Trade. They want to be in the EU but have no trade border with England.

Welfare. They want the whole UK to keep subsidising their dole and pensions and child benefit and tax credits.

Passports. They want to leave the UK but keep UK passports.

Foreign affairs. They want to be an independent country, but to have the support of British armed forces and diplomatic heft.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BNHWalker/status/1610937983871377408

I did actually do a double check when I first saw this, to make sure it wasn't a piss take. But no. That's the undependence that the Scots want. Quite embarrassing really.

[Glyn_Wigley]

That was actually a typo, but it's so apt, I figured I'd leave it.

It appears that the Scots are once again heading towards insisting on independence. Except for:

Trade. They want to be in the EU but have no trade border with England.

Welfare. They want the whole UK to keep subsidising their dole and pensions and child benefit and tax credits.

Passports. They want to leave the UK but keep UK passports.

Foreign affairs. They want to be an independent country, but to have the support of British armed forces and diplomatic heft.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BNHWalker/status/1610937983871377408

I did actually do a double check when I first saw this, to make sure it wasn't a piss take. But no. That's the undependence that the Scots want. Quite embarrassing really.

It sounds such a familiar demand of getting what they want but expecting nothing to really change it ought to be written on the side of a bus.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The biggest con is the state pension. The SNP leaders have been flat out lying to the Scottish people for over a year that people who have paid their stamp have built up a right to a pension, and because the money has been paid to the UK HMRC, it will be Whitehall's responsibility to pay their pensions.

Absolute horse shit.

The state pension isn't a right that you get because you've paid into it.

People's NI payments pay CURRENT pensioners' payments. Current workers, when they retire, will have their pensions paid by future workers. It's not a right. It's a BENEFIT, paid out if the current account.

If Scotland goes Independent, from Day One it is the job of the Scottish Govt to pay Scottish pensions from Scottish taxes or borrowing. And they cannot afford those payments.

The SNP is systematically deceiving the Scottish people, just like the Brexit mob systematically deceived the British over what Leave would entail.

[phil old leake]

So basically they want their cake and want to eat it. 
Independence paid for by every other nation in the UK

[mugnapper]

Don't they also want to keep the £?

[tyke1962]

Don't they also want to keep the £?

The last SNP position on currency was October 2022 .

The EU say Scotland would be legally committed to adopting the Euro .

The SNP position is should independence happen they would initially use the Pound and then introduce a Scottish Pound currency .

Presumably with Nicola's head on the notes I would imagine 

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

The thing forgotten like the Brexit vote is the cultural side of it.  For many Scots that's the important bit not the economy or the EU or whatever.  I suspect it would be a much more sensible and straightforward thing if they fronted up to that.

Frankly a lot of Scottish people want their laws made in Scotland not England regardless of what those laws are.  It then goes even further that the Highlands don't want them made in Edinburgh either.  Just like the smaller devolution in England, people in Doncaster don't want policies created in Leeds.

[BobG]

Be interesting for Doncaster... what with legally being a part of Scotland.

Mind and boggle!!

BobG

[Glyn_Wigley]

Be interesting for Doncaster... what with legally being a part of Scotland.

Mind and boggle!!

BobG

They'd be able to remake the old Ealing comedy and retitle it Passport To Skellow!

[BobG]

BobG

[Bristol Red Rover]

Whatever you might think about specifics, and with Scotland independence there's huge emotive reactions as can be seen above, there's the bigger issue of whether people are better off in large states or smaller ones.

It's complex,  but my main concern is how elite power structures are more emmeshed, harder to see, and so there is less real accountability and "democracy" as states are larger. Russia, China, USA, Brazil, and of course the EU all illustrate that well.

[Draytonian III]

Don’t let the people of Scotland vote on this referendum, let the people of England vote instead and Nicola would definitely get her wish

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'm not sure your concerns really matter BRR. The Scots themselves have been quite clear in polls as to what they see as the thing that would lead them to support or oppose independence.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-25846914.amp

The SNP may well claim that's it's all about having the right to paint your face blue and divorce yourselves from the Sassenachs, but for the Scottish people, it seems to come down to the question of would Independence make them richer or poorer.

And since pretty much every economic assessment says that Independence would make the Scots way, way poorer for a long time, you'd think the SNP would be open and honest with the Scots, instead of lying through their teeth on the issue.

[Bristol Red Rover]

My point stands. Getting shut of the UK elite has to be a bonus. I know then there is the Scottish elite, but one step at a time eh?

And the majority of English elite want Scotland to be wedded to them. Why would that be do you think? There's no doubt that England without Scotland,  and the rest, would be weaker.

As for economic assessments, there's a lot of vested interests in that. They'd be as independent as are  the vast majority of medical trials are.

Personally I don't care which way it goes,  but anything that breaks the power of the elite is good by me.

[SydneyRover]

It's a shame you don't apply this tenet in other areas

[Bristol Red Rover]

It's a shame you don't apply this tenet in other areas

Any chance of being specific for a change?

[BillyStubbsTears]

BRR.

You said "with Scotland independence there's huge emotive reactions".

I hear that a lot.

I'm saying the polling evidence suggests it's b*llocks. It's all about money. And for all your high minded, but essentially meaningless manifesto, I'm saying that there is no credible analysis that says anything other than that Scotland as a country would be very, very much poorer for a long time if they went independent.

If they really want to bring down the bastions of the Western Hegemony, while losing the equivalent of their entire health budget, that's for them to decide. But if so, at the very least that should be debated frankly and honestly. Rather than just dive into the Braveheart b*llocks that you and many in the SNP espouse. 

[SydneyRover]

It's a shame you don't apply this tenet in other areas

Any chance of being specific for a change?

The bit about 'getting shut of the elite' is putin and his criminal cronies elite enough for you?

[Bristol Red Rover]

It's a shame you don't apply this tenet in other areas

Any chance of being specific for a change?

The bit about 'getting shut of the elite' is putin and his criminal cronies elite enough for you?

If you look, I listed Russia along with a few other examples of states that are big problems.

It's complex,  but my main concern is how elite power structures are more emmeshed, harder to see, and so there is less real accountability and "democracy" as states are larger. Russia, China, USA, Brazil, and of course the EU all illustrate that well.

In that, generally with bigger states the puppet masters are harder to see. Interestingly, Russia is perhaps more obvious to see than the others in that list.

Noted you used criminal in relating to Putin - do you apply the same to other nations?

[SydneyRover]

other nations are not invading their neighbours and being supported by you

[Bristol Red Rover]

China is about to invade Taiwan, has invaded Tibet.
The US we know has its fingers in multiple pies, usually only has to threaten strangling a nation but has intervened and invaded, and will again,  more than any other nation.
Russia, yep, it has invaded Ukraine.
The EU so far has only acted economically, but that is an effective way of taking over nations. Ukraine its most recent venture.
Turkey has invaded Syria.
UAE recently invaded Yemen.
Israel regularly invades Gaza and the West Bank, plus bombs Syria.
The UK recently invaded Syria and Afghanistan, plus bombed the hell out of Libya.

But your obsession is Russia and Ukraine to the point of ignoring, de facto approving of, all the others. And keeping in topic, you suck up to the elites in other countries and presumably approve of their economic robbery of other nations and their own populations.

[SydneyRover]

And are you supporting all them too?