Wrexham

[VivaRovers]

In the late 80s - early 90s one of the supporters buses had been booked into a pub 10/15 miles outside of Wrexham, when we get there me and a mate spot another pub over the road so we make for that whilst everyone else is thronged in the other. When we walk in no one gives us a second glance as everyone is having a pint and watching the racing on television, but when I go and order two lagers with my English accent everyone starts talking in Welsh .

Welsh people speaking Welsh? Heaven forbid.

I had similar when I went in a bar in Paris the other year; ordered a beer and suddenly everyone was speaking French. In fact it happened in Brno too, everyone in the pub there started talking Czech. And in Budapest come to think of it, wherever I went everyone started speaking Hungarian.

Crazy old world isn't it.

[Draytonian III]

No my point is that they were ALL talking English until I spoke

[Bollinger]

No my point is that they were ALL talking English until I spoke

I say this as someone who has spent and enjoyed a lot of time in Wales and Cardiff in particular and have been well received. Something, rightly or wrongly, I’ve put down to some sort of kinship due to my working class mining roots. However I’ve been on the end of exactly the same thing on a couple of occasions out in the sticks.

[VivaRovers]

No my point is that they were ALL talking English until I spoke

How loud are you that every single person in the pub heard you order a pint despite being in mid-conversation themselves?

[Draytonian III]

It was only a small bar, about half a dozen tables, with a tv on a wall bracket

[Chris Black come back]

Sheep in the corner, Brains on cask, fresh soda bread and leek soup on menu, women with those massive tall hats sat supping.

[Campsall rover]

No my point is that they were ALL talking English until I spoke

I say this as someone who has spent and enjoyed a lot of time in Wales and Cardiff in particular and have been well received. Something, rightly or wrongly, I’ve put down to some sort of kinship due to my working class mining roots. However I’ve been on the end of exactly the same thing on a couple of occasions out in the sticks.

That happened to me in Aberystwyth. Heard me speaking in English and everyone started to talk in Welsh.
They are very much like that on the west coast.
The English are looked upon by some of the locals as unwelcome foreigners. It’s ignorant imo.

Think Cardiff is a totally different ball game. As a Capital City it is much more Cosmopolitan.

[Campsall rover]

No my point is that they were ALL talking English until I spoke

How loud are you that every single person in the pub heard you order a pint despite being in mid-conversation themselves?

They have very big ears in Wales Viva. Totally different breed of cattle to us English.

[VivaRovers]

That happened to me in Aberystwyth. Heard me speaking in English and everyone started to talk in Welsh.
They are very much like that on the west coast.
The English are looked upon by some of the locals as unwelcome foreigners. It’s ignorant imo.

What's more ignorant? People choosing to speak their own language, or people from a different country turning up expecting them to speak theirs?

[Not Now Kato]

That happened to me in Aberystwyth. Heard me speaking in English and everyone started to talk in Welsh.
They are very much like that on the west coast.
The English are looked upon by some of the locals as unwelcome foreigners. It’s ignorant imo.

What's more ignorant? People choosing to speak their own language, or people from a different country turning up expecting them to speak theirs?

Strange, don't you think, that there are English words the equivalent of which don't exist in the Welsh language. So, in the middle of a conversation in Welsh they'll drop in a word they don't have an equivalent of in English in English during a sentence.  It's very funny when you hear it - I sat on a train from Wigan to Edinburgh which was packed with Welsh supporters going to a rugby international with Scotland and My wife and I were laughing most of the journey. You'd think that they'd find some way of 'creating' one in Welsh!

[VivaRovers]

Strange, don't you think, that there are English words the equivalent of which don't exist in the Welsh language. So, in the middle of a conversation in Welsh they'll drop in a word they don't have an equivalent of in English in English during a sentence.  It's very funny when you hear it - I sat on a train from Wigan to Edinburgh which was packed with Welsh supporters going to a rugby international with Scotland and My wife and I were laughing most of the journey. You'd think that they'd find some way of 'creating' one in Welsh!

I was in England at the weekend and heard some people talk about going to a café for a cappuccino. You'd think they'd find some way of creating words for them in English.

[Campsall rover]

That happened to me in Aberystwyth. Heard me speaking in English and everyone started to talk in Welsh.
They are very much like that on the west coast.
The English are looked upon by some of the locals as unwelcome foreigners. It’s ignorant imo.

What's more ignorant? People choosing to speak their own language, or people from a different country turning up expecting them to speak theirs?

Viva if thats your attitude then sorry I mentioned my experience.
You’re presumably Welsh. I have no problem with that whatsoever.

The fact is I found it very ignorant to suddenly change from speaking English to then changing to Welsh when they realised they were in the company of an English person.

I have nothing per se against the Welsh people. I take everyone as I find them.

[Draytonian III]

When I was on a Paris metro train in 2016 there was a lot Welsh supporters and they were singing and chanting in English

[Bessie Red]

That happened to me in Aberystwyth. Heard me speaking in English and everyone started to talk in Welsh.
They are very much like that on the west coast.
The English are looked upon by some of the locals as unwelcome foreigners. It’s ignorant imo.

What's more ignorant? People choosing to speak their own language, or people from a different country turning up expecting them to speak theirs?

I fully understand and respect your willingness to protect the fact that Wales has its own language, yet the truth is the vast majority of the Welsh population routinely speak English 100% of the time, so I agree that it's a little rude and unwelcoming to suddenly start conversing in Welsh when an English accent is heard.

[VivaRovers]

I fully understand and respect your willingness to protect the fact that Wales has its own language, yet the truth is the vast majority of the Welsh population routinely speak English 100% of the time, so I agree that it's a little rude and unwelcoming to suddenly start conversing in Welsh when an English accent is heard.

Why is it rude or unwelcoming if they're not talking to you? How many countries with their own language do you go to and expect to understand everything that other people say?

I often visit Welsh-speaking towns and villages and go in pubs, shops or cafes where everyone is speaking Welsh. I've never once thought it rude, or unwelcoming, just natural.

[DonnyOsmond]

I think the comparison with R & D is that it’s all going to end in tears, like it did for them

I doubt it. These aren't shady businessmen who can step back into the shadows after they've destroyed a football club, these are high profile people who don't want to tarnish their reputations.

[idler]

Back in 1967 we were in Swansea after the Saturday afternoon match. In those days the supporters buses didn’t go back until 11:00pm. Me and the mate went into a pub in the centre and were treat like royalty by the locals. They were all miners down there. They got the local girls to give us a kiss before we went. We called at the chippy and when they knew we were from Donny they gave us extra fish and chips for the long journey home.
Losing 6-0 might have gained some sympathy though.
Again in 1968/69 we went out in Swansea after the game and local lads looked after us and had a beer. We won that one 1:0.

[drfc1951]

Back in 1967 we were in Swansea after the Saturday afternoon match. In those days the supporters buses didn’t go back until 11:00pm. Me and the mate went into a pub in the centre and were treat like royalty by the locals. They were all miners down there. They got the local girls to give us a kiss before we went. We called at the chippy and when they knew we were from Donny they gave us extra fish and chips for the long journey home.
Losing 6-0 might have gained some sympathy though.
Again in 1968/69 we went out in Swansea after the game and local lads looked after us and had a beer. We won that one 1:0.
[/quote
Did you go in the  Bellevue hotel in the town centre, not far from Vetch Field

[scawsby steve]

I will say one thing, the Welsh have got the best national anthem in the world, and I mean that sincerely.

Despite not being Welsh, whenever I hear it, it goes straight to my soul.

Magnificent.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The Welsh have a general dislike for all things English . And I’d even stretch that to hatred amongst some.

Not true, and also not true. I wouldn't flatter yourselves.

There is however a huge dislike of being othered by and against England and of and English-centric media. And when it comes to major football tournaments, having to see every tournament through the English-gaze.

The happiness at seeing England go out to Iceland which Scawsby mentions was fuelled by the latter of those. The moment Wales and England were drawn in the same group at Euro 2016 it ceased being Group B and started being 'England's group' in a supposedly 'British' media. If you had that put on you all the time, and had all the questions you faced in press conferences at your big tournament framed in relation to England's team, players and progress, you'd be glad to see the back of them. Myself and every Wales fan I know would much rather never see Wales play England ever again than see Wales beat England... it's not hatred, it's annoyance.

As for Wrexham, the effect that Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney's investment in the club has had on the town is absolutely incredible. There's just a huge buzz about the place that centres on the football team and its fortunes; everyone wants to be part of it, to the extent that 9,500 turned up to watch their women's team last month. Every kid in my nephew's class at school, including him, tells you they're a Wrexham fan. Some things the owners have done I don't agree with, but if you step foot in Wrexham you can't help but be blown away by the current connection between people and club. I'd give anything for that.

That said, the constant reporting and hyping of everything that's connected to the club in local, national and British media is becoming tiresome. But it's more an indictment of the state of much journalism in the UK than it is any fault of the club. Websites are mentioning the club and their owners, and their various other celebrity hangers on at every opportunity to try and harvest clicks; they're creating stories out of next to nothing because they know enough people will click on it.

If you're tired of all that in Doncaster imagine how I feel; my local newspaper had more than 25 different 'stories' about Wrexham in the week after their promotion alone.

I don't see how you can divorce the "McElhaney" thing from the "Media" thing.

There's absolutely zero worlds in parallel universes where McElhaney puts money and his undying love into Wrexham without the prerequisite of media obsession.

What's happening is a Poundland version of petrodollars dominating the football elite. Arabian oligarchs get their kicks from the kudos of owning their playthings. McElhaney gets his from the media-generated publicity storm around his plaything.

Both are anathema to what I want football to be. 

[TheFunk]

I'll never forget walking in to a pub in Denbigh at lunchtime about 5 years ago. We asked for a table for four only to be told they were full. There were four blokes stood at the bar and nobody else in there.

That's not anti-English, they just have standards in Denbigh

I'll never forget walking in to a pub in Denbigh at lunchtime about 5 years ago. We asked for a table for four only to be told they were full. There were four blokes stood at the bar and nobody else in there.

That's not anti-English, they just have standards in Denbigh

Having the pleasure of reading your editorials and articles I just knew what was coming.

[idler]

Back in 1967 we were in Swansea after the Saturday afternoon match. In those days the supporters buses didn’t go back until 11:00pm. Me and the mate went into a pub in the centre and were treat like royalty by the locals. They were all miners down there. They got the local girls to give us a kiss before we went. We called at the chippy and when they knew we were from Donny they gave us extra fish and chips for the long journey home.
Losing 6-0 might have gained some sympathy though.
Again in 1968/69 we went out in Swansea after the game and local lads looked after us and had a beer. We won that one 1:0.
[/quote

Did you go in the  Bellevue hotel in the town centre, not far from Vetch Field

I think so but it was a long time ago.

[number19]

Since I moved to the Wirral I've been across the boarder plenty of times, I've experienced the same with people talking English and then changing to Welsh, can't say it's ever really bothered me though.
There's plenty of people that are just as friendly & the north Wales coast is worth a visit for anyone that's not been, there's places I'd sooner return too than a trip to Cleethorpes or Skegness anyway.
One thing I would say is you never see that many coming the other way or around about the coastline here at weekends so what does that say about us?

[Not Now Kato]

Strange, don't you think, that there are English words the equivalent of which don't exist in the Welsh language. So, in the middle of a conversation in Welsh they'll drop in a word they don't have an equivalent of in English in English during a sentence.  It's very funny when you hear it - I sat on a train from Wigan to Edinburgh which was packed with Welsh supporters going to a rugby international with Scotland and My wife and I were laughing most of the journey. You'd think that they'd find some way of 'creating' one in Welsh!

I was in England at the weekend and heard some people talk about going to a café for a cappuccino. You'd think they'd find some way of creating words for them in English.

The caffe has been around in England for may a year, certainly before I was a lad, (and who pronounces it with a ' anyway). As for Cappuccino, that's a specific drink with set ratios of coffee to milk, made in a specific way and universally known by that name around the world, why the need to invent a word for it?
 
Personally, I prefer tea.

[Bessie Red]

I fully understand and respect your willingness to protect the fact that Wales has its own language, yet the truth is the vast majority of the Welsh population routinely speak English 100% of the time, so I agree that it's a little rude and unwelcoming to suddenly start conversing in Welsh when an English accent is heard.

Why is it rude or unwelcoming if they're not talking to you? How many countries with their own language do you go to and expect to understand everything that other people say?

I often visit Welsh-speaking towns and villages and go in pubs, shops or cafes where everyone is speaking Welsh. I've never once thought it rude, or unwelcoming, just natural.

Read my response again Viva, I said nothing about them talking to me directly. It was more about why if they are already talking in English do the feel the need to switch to Welsh as soon as they hear someone just coming into the bar speaking English. Seems a little strange and as I say unwelcoming!

[Red wizard]

I'd feel the same if I experienced the same thing mate. I had It  in a polish shop the other week. 2 people talking English in the Que I get In the Que and they start talking polish. Makes you feel uncomfortable.

[scawsby steve]

It's the same in Scawsby. Whenever we get strangers or riff-raff coming in, we start talking in the plum-in-the-mouth kind of accent that's appropriate for the aristocrats of Scawsby.