Time to go sean

[BillyStubbsTears]

You say Finally but wasnt it Sods first full season in charge that we went up? Im sure penney signed roberts o connor lockwood et al, but sod signed stock dint he the year after that?
Sod was probably surprised at how good green had become, towards the end of that season he was incredible, millwall away for example.

Yes. And then he was sacked six matches later.

He'd also by this time also signed Bruce Dyer and I think also Michele De Piedi...

Your point being?

You reckon he was telling Ryan to put his chequebook away and was happy to make do with the likes of Di Piedi?

Interstingly, on the day O'Driscoll signed on, we suddenly found the funds to sign Stock. And then the next nine months, we found the funds to sign Wellens, Sullivan, Hayter and Mills. You reckon Penney EVER had funds to sign players like those?

[dickos1]

Im sure Sean would of been sacked by now too if he hadnt got us up, but we are now in the league jr always wanted us in. And realistically staying in this league is always going to be our priority, if we ever do go down i think only then should we question sod and even then i dont think we should get rid. Just hope we get the big players back after the international break and then we can kick on

[BillyStubbsTears]

Lewis Gyy was never good enough under either manager.
As for Green that is only your opinion, my opinion is that from xmas onwards the year we went up, they were his best performances by a country mile.

And O'Driscoll said at the end of that season that he was surprised because he didn't think Green was that good a player.

Let's all calm down a bit. You're getting hot under the collar and losing perspective. You say that Penney never got close to the play-offs. That's funny, cos I'm sure I remember having the radio glued to my ear while sat on the away end at Prenton Park when we had an outside chance of making the play-offs on the last day of 2005-06.

We then bought several players the next season to add to that squad, including Lockwood, Roberts, O'Connor, Stock and Sullivan, and went backwards for a year. It was only after we'd added Wellens, Hayter, Woods and Mills to the mix that we became promotion contenders. O'Driscoll is an excellent manager and finally did the job, but boy-oh-boy was he backed by the Board. He had resources the like of which Penney could have only dreamed of.

Good bit of prospective there Bill! I'll add my two penneth now that the dust has settled from yesterdays result.  There is no way that Sean O'Driscoll should be removed from his job, what needs to happen is that the Chairman and the toothless two need to get the head from up their arses, stop pontificating regarding the stadium and give this fella the tools to do the job he's paid to do!  Then you can argue the toss over his ability.  Talking of which, how long do some of those calling for his head think he'd be out of work before he was snapped up? Even if he was sacked, the new manager would probably need to be given funds to turn things around, SO WHY NOT GIVE THEM TO ONE OF THE BEST MANAGERS WE'VE HAD IN YEARS.

Couldn't agree more Savvy. It'd be madness to sack O'Driscoll given the injury crisis. It is utterly unfair to judge him given the squad he has available now, albeit that he hasn't helped himself by strengthening in places where we were already strong (attacking midfield) and not doing so in places where we are desperately weak (goalkeeper).

If we don't get players back fit, then we're doomed. If we DO get players back fit quickly, I fully expect us to rise up the division.

[dickos1]

Why we even discussing penney?? hes not even on the same planet as sod. Cant believe people are even starting arguements to prove otherwise.
Its like your having a go at sod just because the board gave him some cash,

[Chris Black come back]

You say Finally but wasnt it Sods first full season in charge that we went up? Im sure penney signed roberts o connor lockwood et al, but sod signed stock dint he the year after that?
Sod was probably surprised at how good green had become, towards the end of that season he was incredible, millwall away for example.

Yes. And then he was sacked six matches later.

He'd also by this time also signed Bruce Dyer and I think also Michele De Piedi...

Your point being?

You reckon he was telling Ryan to put his chequebook away and was happy to make do with the likes of Di Piedi?

Interstingly, on the day O'Driscoll signed on, we suddenly found the funds to sign Stock. And then the next nine months, we found the funds to sign Wellens, Sullivan, Hayter and Mills. You reckon Penney EVER had funds to sign players like those?

I thought Dave did a cracking job for us as manager. Let's not try and paint him though as muddling by with relatively less resources than other teams in the same league. He'd spent 125k on Heff and 175k on Thornton only the previous summer.

For whatever reason JR pulled the trigger on Penney and whoever was then appointed would have been given a few quid to spend on new players. At that time of course Stock was a bit part player going nowhere and Wellens was signed out of contract (which admittedly must have meant a good salary package). Mills was a raw teenager who had little chance of getting any game time at City. SOD identified and incorporated both into a successful team. This is to his credit rather than JR's cheque book really.

Strangely, Penney and SOD do share one common attribute. They both demonstrated at times the definition of insanity: doing the same thing each time ad expecting different results. For Penney this was a rigid belief in 4-4-2 and for SOD it is a rigid belief in 4-5-1.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Why we even discussing penney?? hes not even on the same planet as sod. Cant believe people are even starting arguements to prove otherwise.
Its like your having a go at sod just because the board gave him some cash,

It's called having perspective on the hostory of the club. You, yourself said that Penney never got close to the play-offs in L1. That shows what shite people remember. It needs correcting.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Why we even discussing penney?? hes not even on the same planet as sod. Cant believe people are even starting arguements to prove otherwise.
Its like your having a go at sod just because the board gave him some cash,

It's called having perspective on the history of the club. You, yourself said that Penney never got close to the play-offs in L1. That shows what shite people remember. It needs correcting.

[MrFrost]

Why we even discussing penney?? hes not even on the same planet as sod. Cant believe people are even starting arguements to prove otherwise.
Its like your having a go at sod just because the board gave him some cash,

It could be said Penney achieved more than SOD has. 2 promotions plus our outstanding Carling Cup run. Maybe SOD getting us to where we are now and keeping us here (so far) is a bigger one, I don't know, but there are arguments either way.
Penney lost the dressing room, had he not, I don't believe he would have left when he did.

Unfortunately since then, he hasn't had much luck in management, although some of the best times we have had in our history came under Dave Penney, and I don't think that should be forgotten.

[Savvy]

Why we even discussing penney?? hes not even on the same planet as sod. Cant believe people are even starting arguements to prove otherwise.
Its like your having a go at sod just because the board gave him some cash,

Hang on a minute like!!! Thats taking things abit far in my opinion. For me, the last two managers we've had are amongst the top three we've had in my time watching the club (the other being Stan Anderson). In terms of their approach to the game, Dave Penney is by far my favourite, but who can argue with what Sean O'Driscoll has achieved. Since the \"f**k off back to Bournemouth\" chanting at Mansfield, who could complain about what he's achieved and how he's managed to keep us in this division and manage to be a net provider of funds in the process. The results towards the end of last season should have been a wake up call to the powers that be. Clearly the \"product\" on the pitch needed improving, this was also re-affirmed by the significant drop in season ticket sales. Injuries apart, we are reaping the harvest we have sown!!!

[Mr1Croft]

Once again these people need reminding; John Ryan has remained consistent that SOD is here for the long run; yes he has his fair share of fans who don't like him, and they are all springing up now they have an excuse. To question SOD's commitment to the club is to question John Ryan's commitment. Because let's face it SOd isn't going to be sacked before JR steps down.

SOD is (one letter from) GOD

[BillyStubbsTears]

You say Finally but wasnt it Sods first full season in charge that we went up? Im sure penney signed roberts o connor lockwood et al, but sod signed stock dint he the year after that?
Sod was probably surprised at how good green had become, towards the end of that season he was incredible, millwall away for example.

Yes. And then he was sacked six matches later.

He'd also by this time also signed Bruce Dyer and I think also Michele De Piedi...

Your point being?

You reckon he was telling Ryan to put his chequebook away and was happy to make do with the likes of Di Piedi?

Interstingly, on the day O'Driscoll signed on, we suddenly found the funds to sign Stock. And then the next nine months, we found the funds to sign Wellens, Sullivan, Hayter and Mills. You reckon Penney EVER had funds to sign players like those?

I thought Dave did a cracking job for us as manager. Let's not try and paint him though as muddling by with relatively less resources than other teams in the same league. He'd spent 125k on Heff and 175k on Thornton only the previous summer.

You're correct of course. The point is though that O'Driscoll had those players, that squad that he inherited and then added 5 or 6 very expensive players to it. So by the time we were promoted, the wage bill must have been 50+% higher than it was under Penney. You HAVE to consider that when judging the record of the two managers.

[MrFrost]

I'm just wondering what people will be saying if we get to Xmas and we only have a handful of points and relegation is staring us in the face. Would everyone still be happy with SOD at the helm?

I genuinely believe that some people on here would happily back him if we lost all 46 games this season.

I think I may have been a little harsh in calling for his head yesterday, but IMO, things HAVE to improve soon, injuries or no injuries.

[Mr1Croft]

I'm just wondering what people will be saying if we get to Xmas and we only have a handful of points and relegation is staring us in the face. Would everyone still be happy with SOD at the helm?

I genuinely believe that some people on here would happily back him if we lost all 46 games this season.

I think I may have been a little harsh in calling for his head yesterday, but IMO, things HAVE to improve soon, injuries or no injuries.

If you are prepared to criticise this man; then please tell us what you have in mind in terms of change, because in all fairness SOD seems the only guy with ideas of moving this club forward...

[MrFrost]

A change of approach would be a start.

Like I said people would still want him here if we lost every game this season. The man can do no wrong can he?

[Mr1Croft]

You keep saying change but yet you fail to indicate what type of change would be appropiate. Yesterday you called for his head, today you ask for change of tactics, and when we start winning again and stay up you'll be applauding and chanting his name.

Give him a chance, you keep banging on about how people worship the \"clown\" and yet after 4 games you say enough is enough?

You have also slained our support in a recent thread; getting behind the team and the manager is kind of a big part of our support, or do you plan to have a banner on tuesday showing SOD's head on a pitchfork?

[dickos1]

He makes mistakes as im sure you do, but hes our manager very successful one at that. Just get behind him, no other manager would be improving our results with the injuries at the min

[MrFrost]

When we have two strikers available, how about playing with 2 up top. That might be a different approach.
I'll stick by the point I am trying to make though, we could lose all 46 games this season and some people will still believe SOD is the best thing since sliced bread.

[Mr1Croft]

When we have two strikers available, how about playing with 2 up top. That might be a different approach.
I'll stick by the point I am trying to make though, we could lose all 46 games this season and some people will still believe SOD is the best thing since sliced bread.

Didn't John Ryan state that one of reason's for Dave Penney's departure was that his 4-4-2 was becoming too predictable and resulted in boring football?

Talk about going backwords...

[MrFrost]

When we have two strikers available, how about playing with 2 up top. That might be a different approach.
I'll stick by the point I am trying to make though, we could lose all 46 games this season and some people will still believe SOD is the best thing since sliced bread.

Didn't John Ryan state that one of reason's for Dave Penney's departure was that his 4-4-2 was becoming too predictable and resulted in boring football?

Talk about going backwords...

Isn't SOD's formation becoming predictable and boring now? I'd argue that it is.

[Mr1Croft]

When we have two strikers available, how about playing with 2 up top. That might be a different approach.
I'll stick by the point I am trying to make though, we could lose all 46 games this season and some people will still believe SOD is the best thing since sliced bread.

46 games? We've played 4 and your already stating it's too late to come back with the \"clown\" in charge...

[dickos1]

We started with 2 up front yesterday, milan dropped deeper at half time. We owe him a lot so knows the time to back him, the losing all 46 games is ridiculous point. If man u lost all their remaining games what would happen

[MrFrost]

When we have two strikers available, how about playing with 2 up top. That might be a different approach.
I'll stick by the point I am trying to make though, we could lose all 46 games this season and some people will still believe SOD is the best thing since sliced bread.

46 games? We've played 4 and your already stating it's too late to come back with the \"clown\" in charge...

I never said that. You are completely missing the point I am making, and I really can't be bothered explaining it again.

[dickos1]

When we have two strikers available, how about playing with 2 up top. That might be a different approach.
I'll stick by the point I am trying to make though, we could lose all 46 games this season and some people will still believe SOD is the best thing since sliced bread.

Didn't John Ryan state that one of reason's for Dave Penney's departure was that his 4-4-2 was becoming too predictable and resulted in boring football?

Talk about going backwords...

Isn't SOD's formation becoming predictable and boring now? I'd argue that it is.

is it chuff, we have important players missing, theyll still be missing if you change to 442 wont they?

[Mr1Croft]

When we have two strikers available, how about playing with 2 up top. That might be a different approach.
I'll stick by the point I am trying to make though, we could lose all 46 games this season and some people will still believe SOD is the best thing since sliced bread.

Didn't John Ryan state that one of reason's for Dave Penney's departure was that his 4-4-2 was becoming too predictable and resulted in boring football?

Talk about going backwords...

Isn't SOD's formation becoming predictable and boring now? I'd argue that it is.

Apart from 1 up top (sometimes), what formation would you say we play? Because sometimes I'm at a loss replicating it on Fifa...

SOD on JET against Bristol City away:

\"He isn't a striker of midfielder so we can't play him in a normal formation, which suits us really because when we play a normal formation we get, well we get beat\"

[Mr1Croft]

When we have two strikers available, how about playing with 2 up top. That might be a different approach.
I'll stick by the point I am trying to make though, we could lose all 46 games this season and some people will still believe SOD is the best thing since sliced bread.

46 games? We've played 4 and your already stating it's too late to come back with the \"clown\" in charge...

I never said that. You are completely missing the point I am making, and I really can't be bothered explaining it again.

I get where your coming from, you think SOD is untouchable, that he can't do wrong and that fans like me spend the bus journey home from games creaming our trousers at the thought of his tactics.

I could also say that Billy Sharp is an untouchable; in all fairness I find him nothing special, he rarely has a first touch made of magic but knows where the goal is, it is a rare occassion he makes himself a goal out of nothing...

What I am saying is that 46 games hasn't gone, only 4 and you are already asking the man with no back up plan to revert to an invisible plan B, it just inst going to work, the best for this club and it;s players availabe is what SOD is already implementing...

[MrFrost]

When we have two strikers available, how about playing with 2 up top. That might be a different approach.
I'll stick by the point I am trying to make though, we could lose all 46 games this season and some people will still believe SOD is the best thing since sliced bread.

Didn't John Ryan state that one of reason's for Dave Penney's departure was that his 4-4-2 was becoming too predictable and resulted in boring football?

Talk about going backwords...

Isn't SOD's formation becoming predictable and boring now? I'd argue that it is.

Apart from 1 up top (sometimes), what formation would you say we play? Because sometimes I'm at a loss replicating it on Fifa...

SOD on JET against Bristol City away:

\"He isn't a striker of midfielder so we can't play him in a normal formation, which suits us really because when we play a normal formation we get, well we get beat\"

One that doesn't include a defender playing in centre midfield for a start, when we have actual midfield players on the bench.

[Mr1Croft]

When we have two strikers available, how about playing with 2 up top. That might be a different approach.
I'll stick by the point I am trying to make though, we could lose all 46 games this season and some people will still believe SOD is the best thing since sliced bread.

Didn't John Ryan state that one of reason's for Dave Penney's departure was that his 4-4-2 was becoming too predictable and resulted in boring football?

Talk about going backwords...

Isn't SOD's formation becoming predictable and boring now? I'd argue that it is.

Apart from 1 up top (sometimes), what formation would you say we play? Because sometimes I'm at a loss replicating it on Fifa...

SOD on JET against Bristol City away:

\"He isn't a striker of midfielder so we can't play him in a normal formation, which suits us really because when we play a normal formation we get, well we get beat\"

One that doesn't include a defender playing in centre midfield for a start, when we have actual midfield players on the bench.

I'll admit some of his tactics are questionable, as such reverting to a defender in the last 10 minutes from a losing or drawing position. What I am trying to say is that had we won at Derby 3-0 would we be having this conversation...

[MrFrost]

We have won 3 games in 8 months. I think that is why we are having this conversation. Injuries aside, what ever we are doing simply isn't working and it needs to be addressed.

[dickos1]

He plays central midfield regurlary for man utd, sod even stated in his press conference when he signed it was probably his best position.

[dickos1]

u cant put injuries to one side, thats the primary factor