The \"exciting times ahead\"

[donnybel]

Can i just ask, out of interest, were these exciting times coming anyway regardless of who the manager was?  There seems to be a hell of a lot of stuff going on all at the same time. Exciting in deed...can't get me bloody head round it all!! Good luck to Dean Saunders and everyone connected to the club

[silent majority]

The short answer is no. There is a long answer which might not make a lot of sense so I'm not going to attempt it.

However, SO'D was a controlling type of manager, one who would make all the decisions on who played, who didn't who we signed etc. His promotion of the academy was non-existent, his loan players were pretty poor, in the end no one to blame but himself. DS is a believer in using other peoples abilities and qualities, if you can help I'll listen to you is his motto.

[GM-MarkB]

Quite interesting to hear that Martin. So we can take from that that the disasterous signings that were Kilgallon etc were down to the astute Manager and him alone ?

Flawed Genius ?

[Barmby Rover]

\"His loan players were pretty poor\" Matt Mills, JET, Billy Sharp, Jason Shackell to name but four. Nice to know you can rewrite history so well. Maybe Henry VIII was a monogamous fellow after all!

[Snods Shinpad 2]

...one who would make all the decisions on who played, who didn't who we signed etc

And that's seen as a bad thing?

[hoolahoop]

\"His loan players were pretty poor\" Matt Mills, JET, Billy Sharp, Jason Shackell to name but four. Nice to know you can rewrite history so well. Maybe Henry VIII was a monogamous fellow after all!

Much about his tenure will be rewritten by his detractors, this is just the start of it.
As I see it he was a good manager, who brought both good and bad in not unlike any other manager in the game. Ask Fergie about Veron for instance.
He was an excellent manager , who took us to places we never dreamed of and it all went sour for whatever reasons (lack of money, indecision, bad luck, boardrom politics etc)

However we have a new manager and have to move on as supporters of this club. Long after all our greats have gone and I include SO'D in that list ; DRFC will still be here for generations to come and that is the reality.

[Dagenham Rover]

\"His loan players were pretty poor\" Matt Mills, JET, Billy Sharp, Jason Shackell to name but four. Nice to know you can rewrite history so well. Maybe Henry VIII was a monogamous fellow after all!

Much about his tenure will be rewritten by his detractors, this is just the start of it.
As I see it he was a good manager, who brought both good and bad in not unlike any other manager in the game. Ask Fergie about Veron for instance.
He was an excellent manager , who took us to places we never dreamed of and it all went sour for whatever reasons (lack of money, indecision, bad luck, boardrom politics etc)

However we have a new manager and have to move on as supporters of this club. Long after all our greats have gone and I include SO'D in that list ; DRFC will still be here for generations to come and that is the reality.

As far as I'm concerned Hoola that totally sums it up an excellent post

[RedJ]

What we need to keep in mind - especially the younger fans - is that 12 years ago we almost didn't have a club to support. Now we're complaining about being in a relegation scrap in a division I personally didn't believe we'd reach in my life time.

SO'D was a great manager, he's gone - move on people.

[benaldo]

The short answer is no. There is a long answer which might not make a lot of sense so I'm not going to attempt it.

However, SO'D was a controlling type of manager, one who would make all the decisions on who played, who didn't who we signed etc. His promotion of the academy was non-existent, his loan players were pretty poor, in the end no one to blame but himself. DS is a believer in using other peoples abilities and qualities, if you can help I'll listen to you is his motto.

And that's not what is expected from a football team manager then??

[silent majority]

Quite interesting to hear that Martin. So we can take from that that the disasterous signings that were Kilgallon etc were down to the astute Manager and him alone ?

Flawed Genius ?

Mark, affirmative!

It's easy to pick up on what I said and then criticise/debate what I inferred and then only focus on the stuff and bits where he got it right.Some of what he got wrong was obvious too such as Kilgallon, Reece Brown, Lua Lua, Healey, Steve Brooker, Heffernan, etc etc. And don't forget he had the opportunity to sign Mutch and Shackell at an earlier stage!!

The point I was really making, despite the fact I offered a very short version rather than the long one was very much that all of our dealings in the transfer market and player development was down to him. What you don't know, and for reasons of clarity neither do I, was the players offered that he wouldn't take because they didn't fit our system, or they weren't the-right type of player.

I'm not re writing history, just offering the perspective that SO'D wasn't quite the astute manager everybody thinks he is and pointing out that his iron like grip on who we sign and when will be relaxed now that DS has been appointed. I hope that's clear, I'm not trying to be obtuse!

[silent majority]

The short answer is no. There is a long answer which might not make a lot of sense so I'm not going to attempt it.

However, SO'D was a controlling type of manager, one who would make all the decisions on who played, who didn't who we signed etc. His promotion of the academy was non-existent, his loan players were pretty poor, in the end no one to blame but himself. DS is a believer in using other peoples abilities and qualities, if you can help I'll listen to you is his motto.

And that's not what is expected from a football team manager then??

Not to that degree no.

[benaldo]

The short answer is no. There is a long answer which might not make a lot of sense so I'm not going to attempt it.

However, SO'D was a controlling type of manager, one who would make all the decisions on who played, who didn't who we signed etc. His promotion of the academy was non-existent, his loan players were pretty poor, in the end no one to blame but himself. DS is a believer in using other peoples abilities and qualities, if you can help I'll listen to you is his motto.

And that's not what is expected from a football team manager then??

Not to that degree no.

I wonder if Alex Ferguson picks his players? If he does, does that make him a poor manager?

I take it what you are insinuating is that SOD took no notice of anyone and his tactics and grasp of who and who was/wasn't a good footballer were as good as the peregrine falcon which hunts in my garden?

I thought his tactics were pig headed.

[silent majority]

The short answer is no. There is a long answer which might not make a lot of sense so I'm not going to attempt it.

However, SO'D was a controlling type of manager, one who would make all the decisions on who played, who didn't who we signed etc. His promotion of the academy was non-existent, his loan players were pretty poor, in the end no one to blame but himself. DS is a believer in using other peoples abilities and qualities, if you can help I'll listen to you is his motto.

And that's not what is expected from a football team manager then??

Not to that degree no.

I wonder if Alex Ferguson picks his players? If he does, does that make him a poor manager?

I take it what you are insinuating is that SOD took no notice of anyone and his tactics and grasp of who and who was/wasn't a good footballer were as good as the peregrine falcon which hunts in my garden?

I thought his tactics were pig headed.

Pretty much spot on.

My understanding is that we (as a club that is) have been offered some excellent players over the last few years but Sean had the ultimate say. We do only get to see the public face and not what sometimes occurs back stage.

[silent majority]

The short answer is no. There is a long answer which might not make a lot of sense so I'm not going to attempt it.

However, SO'D was a controlling type of manager, one who would make all the decisions on who played, who didn't who we signed etc. His promotion of the academy was non-existent, his loan players were pretty poor, in the end no one to blame but himself. DS is a believer in using other peoples abilities and qualities, if you can help I'll listen to you is his motto.

And that's not what is expected from a football team manager then??

Not to that degree no.

I wonder if Alex Ferguson picks his players? If he does, does that make him a poor manager?

I take it what you are insinuating is that SOD took no notice of anyone and his tactics and grasp of who and who was/wasn't a good footballer were as good as the peregrine falcon which hunts in my garden?

I thought his tactics were pig headed.

[dawleymon]

The King is dead. Long live the King.
Walking away from the ground with a win and 3 points was a great feeling.

[RoversAlias]

The term \"clutching at straws\" has never been more apt. Why the need to criticise Sean on things that seemingly were never big issues before he was sacked this week?

What was wrong with Healy? And he got unlucky with Brooker...his brilliant strike against Leicester last season was proof that Sean was right to persevere and try all he could with Steve, at least in my opinion. As for \"he could've signed Mutch + Shackell earlier\", how petty is that!? Didn't we sign Shackell about 2-3 games into the season?

I cannot believe there is negativity towards the notion that the manager should have the total and complete say on who plays for the club and is picked for the team. Unbelievable.

[donnybel]

Thanks Martin for clearing that up, and thanks to others for adding to the thread. Now looking forward to the \"exciting times.\"  I know we've been punching above our weight but after all the bad years I want it to carry on.  Personally I felt things went downhill after the Sheff Utd saga and I also didn't like the pre season \"I had a list, didn't get any of them\" negativity.  Should have signed Shackell, shouldn't have got rid of Heffernan...etc, etc.  These are my views, aren't gonna knock anyone for theres' onwards and upwards, the supporters are a vital cog the wheel and it doesn't matter about individual views. Thanks again.

[RobTheRover]

Martin is just trying to give a little insight to some of the issues which may have contributed to the decision being taken.  I know for a fact Martin has the utmost respect for what SOD and ROK have done for our club, as we spoke about our thoughts on his departure on Saturday, and I'm sure his post is not meant to cause offence to those for whom SOD's departure is still a raw nerve.

[drfcsteve]

Silent Majority you are talking out of your arse with these comments. I'll add to the list of poor loan players Neil Sullivan, Martis, Joe Mills not to mention reviving Jon Osters career, Richie Wellens on a free, Dumbuya from no where, George Friend (regarded as the best defender at the club), Brian Stock, James Hayter and Jimmy O'Conner for next to nothing compared with what some players go for, same with Bennett who will be a star of the future, and of course already mentioned Matt Mills who recently went for 5 million and will most likely be playing in the premiership next season, and of course Billy Sharp, possibly the best striker we've seen at the club and one we will definitely make a profit on when he goes on January.

And yet you say he wasn't shrewd?

[MachoMadness]

I get what he's saying. He's not saying every signing he had was terrible, he's saying we were offered some great players who were turned down, perhaps in favour of some less-than-great players who didn't pull up any trees. Of course SO'D made some cracking signings, no one's debating that (although O'Connor was one of Penney's wasn't he?) but that doesn't mean he was some flawless genius when it came to judging player ability.

SO'D was a great manager but he had some flaws that he wasn't willing to address when things were going badly. When it goes well it's sticking to you principles. When it goes badly it's stubborn and gets you the sack. That's football.

[Standanista]

Doubtless, SOD, like all managers, will have been offered a deluge of players, good and bad.  How many, that would have significantly improved the squad, were asking realistic money given our wage budget, I wonder?

[Sheepskin Stu]

My understanding is that we (as a club that is) have been offered some excellent players over the last few years but Sean had the ultimate say. We do only get to see the public face and not what sometimes occurs back stage.

Did Sean get fed up of JR bringing in players he didn't want?

[The Red Baron]

Well, as a rewrite of history that is one that would do credit to Stalin himself. He signed some stinkers, didn't he? Stock, Mills, Wellens, Sharp. But I suppose the Board now has to justify its U-Turn, hence the reputation of one of our greatest ever managers has to be trashed.

They could just say he was sacked because we hadn't won for 19 games and the players had lost confidence. Manager sacked because he picked the team and signed the players- that is a new one. On that basis, there must be a lot of managers whose jobs are at risk all of a sudden!

[silent majority]

Silent Majority you are talking out of your arse with these comments. I'll add to the list of poor loan players Neil Sullivan, Martis, Joe Mills not to mention reviving Jon Osters career, Richie Wellens on a free, Dumbuya from no where, George Friend (regarded as the best defender at the club), Brian Stock, James Hayter and Jimmy O'Conner for next to nothing compared with what some players go for, same with Bennett who will be a star of the future, and of course already mentioned Matt Mills who recently went for 5 million and will most likely be playing in the premiership next season, and of course Billy Sharp, possibly the best striker we've seen at the club and one we will definitely make a profit on when he goes on January.

And yet you say he wasn't shrewd?

Nice one Steve.

I never said he wasn't shrewd, nor did I say he didn't bring decent players into the club, in fact I wasn't doing an appraisal on Seans' transfer record at all, what I was doing was answering the original question. Read that again and then read my answer, it does make more sense to read what I actually wrote and not what you thought I wrote.

[silent majority]

Well, as a rewrite of history that is one that would do credit to Stalin himself. He signed some stinkers, didn't he? Stock, Mills, Wellens, Sharp. But I suppose the Board now has to justify its U-Turn, hence the reputation of one of our greatest ever managers has to be trashed.

They could just say he was sacked because we hadn't won for 19 games and the players had lost confidence. Manager sacked because he picked the team and signed the players- that is a new one. On that basis, there must be a lot of managers whose jobs are at risk all of a sudden!

I refer to my answer above. You're taken an extreme view RB, it wasn't writing a discourse on Seans record and no doubt that will happen at some point, I was answering the question about the future under this manager and gave an opinion based on SO'D's approach to the transfer market.

[silent majority]

My understanding is that we (as a club that is) have been offered some excellent players over the last few years but Sean had the ultimate say. We do only get to see the public face and not what sometimes occurs back stage.

Did Sean get fed up of JR bringing in players he didn't want?

Such as?

[DonnyNoel]

Martin is just trying to give a little insight to some of the issues which may have contributed to the decision being taken.  I know for a fact Martin has the utmost respect for what SOD and ROK have done for our club, as we spoke about our thoughts on his departure on Saturday, and I'm sure his post is not meant to cause offence to those for whom SOD's departure is still a raw nerve.

Both parties need to draw a line under this argument then because it certainly isn't reading that way.

JR wanted a change, understandably after a poor run of results and little sign of it changing so made one. Early signs are positive too. I don't think it needs pointing out that, shock horror, a manager has made mistakes in the transfer market. Penney did, SOD did, Saunders did at Wrexham.

[benaldo]

Far be it for me to stick up for Silent majority, but what I think he is saying is; I'll put it a little less pompously -

SOD was given the opportunity to sign very, very good players en masse, but turned almost all of them down.

Read into that what you will. For me, I read it as - SOD was an arrogant man (an acusation I've been aware of from talking to a few people who contract at Cantley park) who mostly could not see the nose in front of his face.

[DonnyNoel]

Far be it for me to stick up for Silent majority, but what I think he is saying is; I'll put it a little less pompously -

SOD was given the opportunity to sign very, very good players en masse, but turned almost all of them down.

Read into that what you will. For me, I read it as - SOD was an arrogant man (an acusation I've been aware of from talking to a few people who contract at Cantley park) who mostly could not see the nose in front of his face.

Which is what a football manager pretty much lives or dies by anyway? Results, signings, squad management. He didn't do it well enough so he got the sack in the same way that if Wellens, Sharp and Mills turned out to be bad signings he'd have got the sack and if Reece Brown, Tomi Ameobi and Harry Worley turned out to be world beaters we might be a Premiership club by now. It just sounds confusing to say we're sacking a manager based on opinionated hindsight. I'd understand the need for whispered \"in the know\" postings if we were in the playoffs and we'd just sacked a manager for behind the scenes misdemeanours.

[benaldo]

Well, I'm not sure I'm ever really very \"in the know\" but from time to time sitting in the prawn sarnie area does have it's \"in the know\" moments. EG the bloke who used to sit next to me owned a company that did/does a lot of work for Rovers and he told me he found SOD arrogant and rude and there were lots of people who disliked his attitude. That was a year ago. JR is often walking by talking to other directors/managers and you sometimes hear the odd thing. Managers sit near where I sit sometimes too as do visiting boards of directors and \"VIPs\". So I guess sometimes you do hear things. Mostly I don't repeat any of them - in fact I probably only repeat 3% of what I hear, because I possibly heard it wrong, I'm not a person who gets off on the \"in the know\" b*llocks and you never know when you're doing more harm than good in repeating or insinuating things you're not personally involved in.

I think what I'm trying to say is that if you take emotion out of SODs demise, it's actually pretty straight forward and transparent.

Man paid to make football team good
Man refuses to sign lots of good players on offer
Man chooses lots of bad players when he could have had good ones
Man gets tactics completely wrong
Man difficult to get on with from directors and players perspective
Man sacked

I don't see where the cloak and daggers are in that? It's as plain as the nose on your face.