How Seven Days Ruined the Reputation of Doncaster

[wilts rover]

Thank you bobjimwilly - that is exactly the point I'm trying to make.

But it is pure speculation being fuelled by rumours and innuendoes from posters like yourself.

without which of course this forum wouldn't exisit!

somethings I agree with in Viva's pondering, others I disagree with - what I do think though is that if he had wanted to put it on here - he would have done so himself.

[markusparkus75]

Aye, I don't think he wanted to contribute to the speculation on here.  Which is probably wise.

And his judgement is usually sound.  Just think he's still a bit upset about SOD going.

[Bret]

One thing about the original post- why are people still talking about storming through Sheffield Wednesday (their worst side in years can i add), or stringing 31 passes together at Millwall in 2008? Yes, great moments and SOD memories- nobody can deny that...however, we are bottom of the Championship. What good is talking about things that happened years ago if we're slowly sliding back to League 1? Would that of won us any points or scored us any goals? No, it was time to make a change. For the record i'm a massive SOD fan but i'm also not delusional

[Wellred]

One thing about the original post- why are people still talking about storming through Sheffield Wednesday (their worst side in years can i add), or stringing 31 passes together at Millwall in 2008? Yes, great moments and SOD memories- nobody can deny that...however, we are bottom of the Championship. What good is talking about things that happened years ago if we're slowly sliding back to League 1? Would that of won us any points or scored us any goals? No, it was time to make a change. For the record i'm a massive SOD fan but i'm also not delusional

Oy don't you come on here saying things like that. You will be upsetting people. I hope this is not how you intend to post in future

[DonnyNoel]

I think our reputation had to change at some point. Storming through L2 and L1 listening to \"we should be beating the likes of Doncaster\" every week was great fun and an era not to be forgotten but sometimes I think at this level they are empty words anyway. We've paid £1m+ for a player and some players must be touching £10k p/w. Plus after a while people got to know about JR and his financial input so the \"Little Donny\" tag got a bit thin with other clubs anyway.

I still think we've got a good reputation. Conference and L2 clubs still talk of \"doing a Donny\". O'Driscoll still has his admirers among us and in the general football populous. Now in changing our direction and signalling real intent to start moving forward we're giving off a different message that appeals to two important parties - potential signings and potential fans. I like a lot of the stuff on VivaRovers but not sure I go along with this. If I saw a manager getting the boot after not winning in 19 games I'd think fair's fair and maybe even how well the club had done to stick by him. Its not like we're a managerial merry-go-round club.

[keyser_soze]

I thought it was over the day Penney was sacked, but the club evolved and moved on to even greater heights. Lets hope it can happen again.

[timdrfc]

It's full of more clap trap than 99% of even my own poorly thought out posts on here!

Where's the evidence Mackay has anything more to do with the club than as a contact via Saunders?

How do you sack an underperforming manager \"graciously\"? Send Morris round to massage him while humming gently in his ear \"I lurve you Sean, I'll still lurve you into eternity, but we're going to part ways into the starry night my lurvveee\"??!! Then announce 5 weeks of official mourning while new candidates are publicly flogged and made to pass their 11+ exams again, while swearing on alick Jeffreys old jock strap, before they are allowed into the Rovers managers office??

If I were a multi millionaire on Rovers board, I wouldn't want to give SOD any more of my money either, especially as he has wasted a lot of it, and allegedly turned down more.

It is common practice for the foreign bus conductors, policemen, soldiers, rabbi's, street cleaners, to say \"good football, bobby charlton, very good\" on finding out where you live. I was in Marrakesh a few years ago and a snake charmer, on finding out I lived in Yorkshire said \"Leeds very good sir\", while waving a 10 foot cobra in my face at the top of a very large and dangerous waterfall!

The article smacks of \"We've always been poor, I like Rovers being poor, how dare you buy good players for the club just as we got on a really good losing streak under the best manager in recent memory!\".

An amazing load of tripe about Rovers footballing prowess was also drawn upon. Who cares how many passes Rovers string together....3....34....423542354, it doesn't matter if you lose does it? No-one congratulates man u on playing a fast direct, winning style of football and then says \"But I'd prefer it if you could make more of an effort passing the ball a bit more to each other before knocking it in the net\", do they?! People don't care, I don't, if you can't win a game. I'd much rather Rovers punted up front from time to time than failed to win a game for 8 months.

Perhaps the author wants to hark back to a time where he stood at a crumbling belle vue and watched part time plumbers and firemen getting tonked every week, while he bit into a rancid burger and pissed up against a wall infested with a type of fungus unknown to modern science? I prefer to look to the future, to something a little better.

Like I've said before, you either trust JR on this or you don't. And if you don't, what are you doing supporting Rovers after all that man did for you?

Top post sir , have to agree with you 100%

[VikingJames]

Just to add my two pennies worth.

I have been more excited with 90 minutes of football under Dean Saunders (Yes the two first halfs in each game were dire) than I had been under the previous Manager in the last 12 months.

I never bought into this fantastic football when it was played in one half of the pitch with no end product. I want my team to win games and attack the opposition to try to get a result.

We have seen a manager make substitutions bringing on forwards or midfield players to win games where the previous manager would bring a defender on to try to waste time or hang on for a point.

Thank you Sean for my fantastic days out at The Millenium Stadium and Wembley. I never dreamed I would get to either but now is the time to move on.

Well done JR and the rest of the board for making the only decision they could. As to how that decision was made and was implemented.There is no easy or nice way to tell someone he has lost his job.

No matter how you want to try and blame the board it  is almost always an unpleasant experience.

Now it is time to move on.

Have to agree with this. Things were going stale (on the pitch) under O'Driscoll for a long time, and whether you regard his footballing ethos to be the best in football or not, it wasn't working for us and it was time to try something else.

If Willie Mackay has as big a say as is being bandied about, then that is cause for some concern - that piece of the article I agree with. But we don't know if he has. He might just be an agent who DS knows whose contacts he wants to use to improve the squad.

[PACMAN]

If Willie Mackay has as big a say as is being bandied about, then that is cause for some concern - that piece of the article I agree with. But we don't know if he has. He might just be an agent who DS knows whose contacts he wants to use to improve the squad.

Therein lies the main point of Glenn's article me thinks. Most of us older fans well remember the R'sonist being welcomed with open arms simply because he promised investment and we all know what happened there!!

Whatever anyone's opinions of the rights and wrongs of Sean O'Driscoll's departure, the manner of it has left a bitter taste in the mouth and I don't think there is anything wrong with questions being asked about where these new funds have suddenly appeared from. Fans didn't ask back then with the R'sonist and we nearly lost the club, let's not make the same mistake again!!

Before anyone says it, I know JR's not a stupid man (far from it) but sometimes people can be blinded by ambition. I trust JR to make the right decisions for our club and I'm 100% sure he would never do anything to put Doncaster Rovers in jeopardy but it doesn't do any harm to question his decisions from time to time, hence the existence of the VSC.

[Wellred]

If Willie Mackay has as big a say as is being bandied about, then that is cause for some concern - that piece of the article I agree with. But we don't know if he has. He might just be an agent who DS knows whose contacts he wants to use to improve the squad.

Therein lies the main point of Glenn's article me thinks. Most of us older fans well remember the R'sonist being welcomed with open arms simply because he promised investment and we all know what happened there!!

Whatever anyone's opinions of the rights and wrongs of Sean O'Driscoll's departure, the manner of it has left a bitter taste in the mouth and I don't think there is anything wrong with questions being asked about where these new funds have suddenly appeared from. Fans didn't ask back then with the R'sonist and we nearly lost the club, let's not make the same mistake again!!

Before anyone says it, I know JR's not a stupid man (far from it) but sometimes people can be blinded by ambition. I trust JR to make the right decisions for our club and I'm 100% sure he would never do anything to put Doncaster Rovers in jeopardy but it doesn't do any harm to question his decisions from time to time, hence the existence of the VSC.

Whilst I am not a member of the VSC I would certainly like to say that Gartom and Berks responses to some of the comments on here and the way they have gone about speaking to the board/JR about certain things that have happened over the last few weeks have been much more intelligent and thought out than many of the moaning and gloom lies just around the corner posts from some.

[Berkshire Rover]

If Willie Mackay has as big a say as is being bandied about, then that is cause for some concern - that piece of the article I agree with. But we don't know if he has. He might just be an agent who DS knows whose contacts he wants to use to improve the squad.

Therein lies the main point of Glenn's article me thinks. Most of us older fans well remember the R'sonist being welcomed with open arms simply because he promised investment and we all know what happened there!!

Whatever anyone's opinions of the rights and wrongs of Sean O'Driscoll's departure, the manner of it has left a bitter taste in the mouth and I don't think there is anything wrong with questions being asked about where these new funds have suddenly appeared from. Fans didn't ask back then with the R'sonist and we nearly lost the club, let's not make the same mistake again.


Before anyone says it, I know JR's not a stupid man (far from it) but sometimes people can be blinded by ambition. I trust JR to make the right decisions for our club and I'm 100% sure he would never do anything to put Doncaster Rovers in jeopardy but it doesn't do any harm to question his decisions from time to time, hence the existence of the VSC.

Whilst I am not a member of the VSC I would certainly like to say that Gartom and Berks responses to some of the comments on here and the way they have gone about speaking to the board/JR about certain things that have happened over the last few weeks have been much more intelligent and thought out than many of the moaning and gloom lies just around the corner posts from some.

Cheers Wellred,

There's still room in the tent fir a few more!

[Gartom]

I would also like to add how much the title of this thread hurt JR given all he does to promote,push and keep little old Donny in the Championship.
We dont have to agree with everything, but there are times when shots like this really hurt....and serve no purpose other than self gratification....yes it might start debate, but why at the expense of a punch below the belt. So many dont know the facts, make things up, pontificate about what might be and come out firing and then ask questions.....

More anon, but its time I went to eat !

By the way, JR sends his warm regards to the VSC folk....and even Wellred too!!....pleased Wellred is on board and appreciates his views.  There you go !!

[VivaRovers]

So many dont know the facts, make things up, pontificate about what might be and come out firing and then ask questions.....

THIS! This is the whole point of the piece Gartom! We don't know whats going on! We've not been told anything straight for the last 8 days! If we had been then the article, the pontification, and the questions wouldn't be there.

[RobTheRover]

See, you could have just put that and saved yourself an hour.  

Don't fret everyone, the questions will be put to those that can answer them. Another benefit of the VSC is that we (collectively, that is) are not just a bunch of fans asking awkward questions. We are significant shareholders who have a ligitimate right to receive answers.

For those who haven't joined the VSC, please consider this.  Strength is certainly in numbers.

[SiBo]

You might ask the questions, you may even get told the truth, but will you be able to tell us the answers?

[Chris]

As shareholders, were the members of the VSC consulted on this decision?

[VivaRovers]

Of course I've huge amounts of respect and admiration for John Ryan and all he's done for this club...

...but if he doesn't want to be 'hurt' by 'awkward' questions then the board, shouldn't be putting themselves into the daft position where they require asking... and certainly not one where they still require asking for a whole week.

[GM-MarkB]

I often ask myself why Mr Ryan comes on here for a nosey from time to time.

I also sometimes ask myself whether he has thick enough skin to be the Chairman of a Football Club

[RobTheRover]

As shareholders, were the members of the VSC consulted on this decision?

No, we weren't.  The decision seems to have been taken by John and Dick alone.  I don't have a problem with this as they own between them about 60x the shares the VSC membership does, but I believe it certainly gets us the full story.

[RoversAlias]

I would also like to add how much the title of this thread hurt JR given all he does to promote,push and keep little old Donny in the Championship.
We dont have to agree with everything, but there are times when shots like this really hurt....and serve no purpose other than self gratification....yes it might start debate, but why at the expense of a punch below the belt. So many dont know the facts, make things up, pontificate about what might be and come out firing and then ask questions.....

More anon, but its time I went to eat !

By the way, JR sends his warm regards to the VSC folk....and even Wellred too!!....pleased Wellred is on board and appreciates his views.  There you go !!

I really don't think Glen was just taking shots at the club, JR or anyone. He wasn't/isn't on some self-fulfilling ego trip, he, like at least a few others, just wants to search for answers to all these events and debate the happenings. He came up with an article slewn with points and theories, projected intelligently in my opinion at least. We should not just blindly follow, things need to add up at least in my head. One of the things I like about this forum is that there actually are plenty of people smart enough to have a proper discussion with reasonable points, even though a minority are still akin to the daft and mindless seen in some corners of the internet.

[wilts rover]

Rob/Gartom/Berks et al - so I take it then that these 'answers' are going to be PM'd around us VSC members? Might persuade a few more to join up!!

[RobTheRover]

I certainly think they need to be communicated to the membership (read, shareholders).

[hoolahoop]

I would also like to add how much the title of this thread hurt JR given all he does to promote,push and keep little old Donny in the Championship.
We dont have to agree with everything, but there are times when shots like this really hurt....and serve no purpose other than self gratification....yes it might start debate, but why at the expense of a punch below the belt. So many dont know the facts, make things up, pontificate about what might be and come out firing and then ask questions.....

More anon, but its time I went to eat !

By the way, JR sends his warm regards to the VSC folk....and even Wellred too!!....pleased Wellred is on board and appreciates his views.  There you go !!

I really don't think Glen was just taking shots at the club, JR or anyone. He wasn't/isn't on some self-fulfilling ego trip, he, like at least a few others, just wants to search for answers to all these events and debate the happenings. He came up with an article slewn with points and theories, projected intelligently in my opinion at least. We should not just blindly follow, things need to add up at least in my head. One of the things I like about this forum is that there actually are plenty of people smart enough to have a proper discussion with reasonable points, even though a minority are still akin to the daft and mindless seen in some corners of the internet.

I agree with you Glen is a long-term supporter and is usually of sound mind and more than capable of stringing good arguments together without resorting to fiction.
Some of the responses to the OP have been pathetic, it was a well thought out summary of the last 10 years and of recent events. There weren't any attempts to add to the rumour mill but to cut through the ambiguities of the last week, to understand why things happened and for what reasons.
Finally anyone who doesn't have the slightest nagging worry for our future........has never  experienced our past tribulations or chooses to ignore the lessons from those Richardson and Weaver years should check out the similarities in the scenarios. They should think on whilst jumping like lemmings over a potential cliff in a wave of euphoria. Fook me we've gained 4 points and 'binned' possibly the greatest manager that this club has had the good fortune to secure for over 50  years.
I back JR and DS to the hilt as they are now the face of the club I love but to hear some of the disparaging comments from some posters over the last few days re. SO'D quite frankly sickens me.
Supporters of a club always have the right to discuss the past, present and future of of their club. They are also entitled to 'mourn' the passing of a great manager and to question the future plans of this club openly and fairly. The OP did just that.
Currently for me the jury is out especially when taking past history into consideration.
Good luck to Dean and the new team he will gradually bring in .............

[Jonathan]

JR is upset by it is he? Sounds like emotional blackmail to stop people having an opinion.

It was all well and good for JR when people supported (his backing of) the previous manager, just because  he now objects to the opinions of people that have not been privy to the insight that he has does not justify him taking potshots at the writers he once backed.

I cannot accept that he does not understand that his own comments have created the mystery and confusion. He is not stupid, he knows he made a very clear public comment one day and then acted in the opposite manner the next, surely he realises that will cause question and upset in some quarters?

I agree we have to try to put it to bed, I certainly agree that the most important thing is to support the new manager and the players. What I don't like is the suggestion that this forum (for debate) has to pander to what one person wants to hear. Not everyone can change their opinions in a gust of wind, especially if they don't know the facts because they never get told! It is very hard to read what message and direction is coming from the club and it has been for a long time.

I'm pleased JR now shows admiration for the contributors he publicly berated in the recent past, but using the voice of the VSC to criticise the original article does not sit well with me. He has to appreciate that a few supporters have probably struggled to keep pace with his changes and I would be shocked if he didn't understand that.

He asks for people to follow him (and quite rightly so) but he's swerved that quickly on this that it's not easy to keep up! The article asks questions that are justifiable in the main.

[VikingJames]

Of course I've huge amounts of respect and admiration for John Ryan and all he's done for this club...

...but if he doesn't want to be 'hurt' by 'awkward' questions then the board, shouldn't be putting themselves into the daft position where they require asking... and certainly not one where they still require asking for a whole week.

Why do you feel that you/we as fans have to know everything? There is presumably a good reason why the full facts haven't made it into the public domain. My guess is that JR wants the new manager to be able to get on with his job without any more potential off-field revelations providing a distraction.

Have you considered that maybe JR wants to keep his (and the boards) reasoning to himself because it would be best for the club at this moment in time? We don't demand to know stuff like how much the players are paid, or why the club let go of certain players, so why are we demanding to know what went on in last week's board meetings? Things are kept under wraps for a reason.

[VivaRovers]

Rob/Gartom/Berks et al - so I take it then that these 'answers' are going to be PM'd around us VSC members? Might persuade a few more to join up!!

Personally I'd be more inclined to join the VSC if I felt that the answers to these questions were going to be made available to all Rovers fans rather than just VSC members. I hope I'm not wrong but I always believed the VSC as a group exists to represent and protect the interests in the club of fans, rather than just fans who are also VSC members.

[Berkshire Rover]

Rob/Gartom/Berks et al - so I take it then that these 'answers' are going to be PM'd around us VSC members? Might persuade a few more to join up!!

Personally I'd be more inclined to join the VSC if I felt that the answers to these questions were going to be made available to all Rovers fans rather than just VSC members. I hope I'm not wrong but I always believed the VSC as a group exists to represent and protect the interests in the club of fans, rather than just fans who are also VSC members.

Glen,

I think that is basically true, as per Gareths post last Sunday on the forum that summarised as far as we could our meeting with JR prior to the palace game. He asked Gareth, Martin and I to treat a few pieces of information with confidence but he has since made them public himself in terms of additional funds etc.

We have further questions to ask of him and will continue to seek opportunities to do just that.

I would also repeat the invitation to anyone on this forum to join the VSC, whatever your opinion, be it supportive or critical of what the club or the VSC are doing, it's welcome so long as its properly argued and doesn't resort to personal abuse of other forum members, or officials of the club.

I am firmly of the opinion that we do have influence with the club but that can only be helped and increased by having more members.

[scriptman]

John Ryan, since he took over the club, has been as open and candid as a chairman as any other club chairman/owner in the country.  We are not a Sunday League or Conference outfit, Doncaster Rovers in 2011 is a multi-million pound business and JR should not feel pressurised into justifying each and every choice or decision he makes. We are fortunate to have a chairman who enjoys a relationship with the fans and who has often gone out of his way to appease the fans.  Most club chairmen/owners in this country have very little rapport with supporters of their club.

The u-turn made by JR is simply down to human nature and a misguided error of judgement.  JR is clearly a great fan of SO’D and it’s fairly obvious to me that the statement made in the Free Press and to Radio Sheffield came from the heart and out of a personal and emotive sense of loyalty to SO’D.  The realisation, however, is that Doncaster Rovers in 2011 had only won three games and the crowds were dwindling. It simply wasn’t good enough and this is what JR would have been made to realise in his meeting with Dick Watson.  I’m in no doubt the home truths hurt JR and he felt humiliated by the climb down but at least he had the dignity and courage to face the cameras and press.  JR is in a position of responsibility but he is also a passionate supporter of Doncaster Rovers and one who is emotionally involved.  He doesn’t deserve a lot of the crap that is being banded about.
 
I am a huge fan of SO’D and like many others I feel a great void but I have to accept what has happened at my club and embrace the new regime.  The piece written by VivaRovers I find to be very subjective but the chap is entitled to his opinion and we are entitled to ours.  I personally don’t believe that in this instance JR should be made to feel accountable to VivaRovers or anyone else.  I also don’t believe that we as fans should be privy to every whys and wherefores that goes on in the boardroom.  Sacking a manager is part and parcel of football.  The way it was carried out has a lot to be desired and I am sure this is not lost on JR.  We can go around kicking and screaming all we like but the fact of the matter is that Dean Saunders is in charge now and any emotional energy should be channelled in a positive manner towards him and the team.

[Jonathan]

Why do you feel that you/we as fans have to know everything? There is presumably a good reason why the full facts haven't made it into the public domain. My guess is that JR wants the new manager to be able to get on with his job without any more potential off-field revelations providing a distraction.

Have you considered that maybe JR wants to keep his (and the boards) reasoning to himself because it would be best for the club at this moment in time? We don't demand to know stuff like how much the players are paid, or why the club let go of certain players, so why are we demanding to know what went on in last week's board meetings? Things are kept under wraps for a reason.

These are fair points but this is a forum for debate and VivaRovers runs a site that has provided reasoned and thought provoking opinion for a long time. Just because some people don't agree with it now, doesn't make it any less worthy. I'm sure the site and it's general ideological stance was fine when it endorsed JR's vision and approach, he changed that (maybe privy to information outside the public domain) but by nature that change will create conflict and question and he must understand that.

We have to ask what we know about recent events:

- I been told that there was a boardroom split and JR was outvoted hence the apparent change of heart
- I have been told that the JR made the change because Sean was feeling the pressure and, although JR ideally wanted him to stay, it was in the interests of him and the club
- I have been told that the change was made because it's a results business
- I have been told that certain board members are under the spell of Willie McKay and he is pulling the strings
- I have been told that we made the change simply because a new manager was proposed to us on Thursday night and he was available
- I have been told that we expected Sean to leave in the summer and had been looking at the change for a long time

They can't all be true, all I know is that:

- I picked up the paper on Thursday morning and read a ringing and unwavering endorsement of why the club would stand by its manager and not follow the route of other local examples
- By the time I got to work the next morning the club had got rid of its manager, installed a new one and changed its vision and approach

- Barely a month ago the club stated it needed more help and donation from the fans to bring in a crucial loan signing at a time when we had no fit strikers in the squad
- The following month we are in the market for names that have got some fans practically frothing at the mouth, and are talking about more

JR cannot deny that the above does not add up easily and must realise that there are serious questions and concerns arising from it, hence the article. To me Gartom's post shows a lack of understanding and appreciation for the strength of opinion in the fan base, and in particular it shows a total lack of acknowledgement for the extent to which fans bought into JR's vision of 10 days ago, before he changed it!

I'm not saying the change was wrong, I'm not saying the change won't benefit us, I'm just saying I understand the basis of the article in question.

[benaldo]

How about a simple answer to all of the JR bashing that's going on right now -

JR made a simple mistake. He thought SOD could do something, then met with the other directors and changed his mind. The other directors perhaps then decided to pump more money in to ensure the clubs safety in the league. End of story.

- Forget the Mackay conspiracy theories
- No, SOD wasn't on board flight 190 and therefore knew his fate
- JR didn't have some long term strategy
- No-one is pulling any strings
- The world doesn't have to contain secrets and men wearing hoods meeting in dark woods to work


JR made a simple mistake - he changed his mind. You lot have been given the facts yet can't accept them. I just don't understand it. I totally trust JR, given his track record, and to suggest he's suddenly entered the \"dark side\" of football is a nonsense and actually, I find, quite rude.

It's great to debate what's happened, but the mud slinging at JR is not needed, is out of context, and is nothing more, I think, than disgruntled SOD worshippers who feel a bit ridiculous now for all their anger directed at people who never liked him over the past year. They feel foolish, so they are lashing out.

Can't anything happen in life without some conspiracy attached to it? I bet you lot - vivarovers, jonathon, et el - have ufo posters all round your houses, videos of the JFK shooting, and happen to think (Along with David Icke) that the queen is an intergalactic travelling lizard?!

The keepmoat is NOT area 51..... It's a small run championship football club, with a passionate fan at it's head. You might want a bit of exciting \"cloak and dagger\" and mystery in your lives, but don't look to DRFC for it, try the local blockbusters instead.