McKays' scheming

[hoolahoop]

Get a grip FFS, you sound like your daughter just died. It's football in 2011, get used to it or go bowling.

Brian, you're dead right!

Will has a propensity to exaggerate the situation, to try and idealise football these days would be as hard as sucking off that cow of yours VD.

[Viking Don]

Dunno, it wasn't that high above mi roof, I could have maybe caught it. No point though, usual case...

[Thinwhiteduke]

It's football in 2011, get used to it or go bowling.

Pass me my bowling shoes.....cos football in 2011 is shite.


Suppose they'll do well in sales of replica shirts though - the kids'll need a new one every 3-6 months to get a new name emblazoned on the back.

[Viking Don]

Yea, you'll probably still have to buy the shoes though, they won't come free. Or the aisles, or the entertainment.

Look, if people don't want to see football then why bother posting or even be bothered about football forums? I'm just not getting it. Crown green bowls is another sport where you don't have to worry about things, don't limit it to the Dome, cheaper too.

Who wants Rovers to win games, and who wants to PAY to see us lose games?

Interesting question eh lads?

It's football in 2011, get used to it or go bowling.

Pass me my bowling shoes.....cos football in 2011 is shite.


Suppose they'll do well in sales of replica shirts though - the kids'll need a new one every 3-6 months to get a new name emblazoned on the back.

[Jonathan]

Donnbob, no it won't be easy. We are left with an £8m problem from the old strategy / regime we cannot afford. The fact is we need to start addressing the issue and you have to start some time, like now. I am sure WMs remit will be outs as well as ins.

Relagation with a fixed £8m wage bill would be a disaster, relagation under the new strategy although not ideal, would not put the long term future of the club in danger.

I'm not convinced at all that we have an £8million p/a wage bill, certainly not on playing staff alone anyway.

I agree that the new strategy should cut the wage bill, regardless of its starting point, assuming we offload conventionally contracted players. On that basis it should not put the financial future of the club in danger, however we could end up in a situation similar to the one when we were relegated to the Conference, with no players and basically having to start from scratch. The costs associated with that would be considerable. I'm not sure McKay or his strategy is aimed at bearing the risk (which exists) of League One.

There is no continuity from a footballing perspective and that's what worries me above all. I don't see this as a way of running a football club. I might be stuck in tradition but I want the manager to manage, to choose the players and to pick the players, not be dictated to by an agent whose solitary aim is to use our club as a vehicle to make money for himself - that is all he's interested in. Like you say, if it works he is hailed a genius, but I have massive concerns about it.

I don't believe we could just get rid of him for a pay off tied to his £100 a week wage. As described in the article, this contract will be \"watertight\" and we will be very much tied into McKay's plan for the next two years. I'm just not comfortable with the fact that no players can come in or out of the club in that time without his say so, it totally undermines the role of the manager. I don't trust McKay at all, neither as a football man or a businessman (at least not to the extent that he is acting to the benefit of his 'employer')

Interestingly, I wonder what the new contracts offered to the likes of Bennett entail? Presumably we couldn't sell him anyway without McKay's say so? He's definitely a saleable asset. I don't think he was signed up to McKay before, I wonder if he's being encouraged to change agents?

[Wellred]

The club has ceased to be Doncaster Rovers now, it is another Franchise FC club. Let's call it McKays All Stars and cease to think of it as a club that has fought it's way through three divisions to get where it stands now. We have a nominal Chairman, what else can he be if he is not consulted about how the club is run, about the money to buy and sell players? What should any of the present squad do now that the team sheet will be filled by journeymen coming and going over a few weeks such as Chimbonda? If they have any sense for their own careers they get out, as they will never have a settled place so long as they can be replaced by players who MUST play if they are to advertise themselves to make Mr.McKay money. DS has no control over any of this, and cannot pick the team, can he leave Chimbonda out of any game, no matter how badly he plays? Of course not. My Rovers died a couple of weeks ago.

Oh how times have changed. From being one of the happiest of clappers you have turned to number one cynic.

[idler]

The club has ceased to be Doncaster Rovers now, it is another Franchise FC club. Let's call it McKays All Stars and cease to think of it as a club that has fought it's way through three divisions to get where it stands now. We have a nominal Chairman, what else can he be if he is not consulted about how the club is run, about the money to buy and sell players? What should any of the present squad do now that the team sheet will be filled by journeymen coming and going over a few weeks such as Chimbonda? If they have any sense for their own careers they get out, as they will never have a settled place so long as they can be replaced by players who MUST play if they are to advertise themselves to make Mr.McKay money. DS has no control over any of this, and cannot pick the team, can he leave Chimbonda out of any game, no matter how badly he plays? Of course not. My Rovers died a couple of weeks ago.

Oh how times have changed. From being one of the happiest of clappers you have turned to number one cynic.

Just seems like you two have swapped chairs, that's all.

[Alickismyhero]

At this point in time Muttley I fully support your views. Just one point, when it comes to what Sean said at the meeting with JR, we only have one persons account of what was said and the implication of it's content. Sean is a very honourable man and will not contradict JR, perhaps he is now gagged with a written agreement to say nothing.
What if he actually said.
1. I am not interested in the youth set up because you have not invested in it in an effective way but we could get academy boys from other clubs more cost effectively.
2. I can't cope with the financial support the board are giving me I need more money to stay up or we go down
Etc etc.
I know it is supposition but we only have one side of the story.
You could say that Sean is the complete opposite of McKay and I know who I would trust to manage my club.

[The Red Baron]

I think we face a range of options for the future, none of which is particuarly palatable. In an ideal world we would be able to secure new investment (or at least someone else prepared to fund the losses), but I don't think that is very likely to happen. There are only so many Sheikh Mansoors and Abramovichs out there!

So the alternatives are accept the inevitability of relegation or try a different approach. If we go down, we might become a yo-yo club, like Scunny. More likely we will find our level in League One, with a reduced wage bill but also reduced income, a declining fanbase and a large stadium to try to fill. In other words, the same problem we have now but with smaller numbers.

I don't think Willie McKay is in this \"for the good of Doncaster Rovers\" (he's admitted as much himself) nor do I think his business model is without flaws. But I don't necessarily see the McKay-DRFC relationship as a \"zero-sum game\"- it is possible that both parties could benefit. In the absence of anything better, I will give it a try and judge the success or otherwise at the end of the season. At least McKay has a vested interest in us staying up- otherwise his shop window doesn't look very attractive!

[Chris Black come back]

I think all of us would in an ideal world want the following to be our model in the long term: ownership of the KMS, Doncaster people owning/running the club, an astute manager playing good football and operating on a sensible budget, Doncaster people coming to watch their LOCAL club and not ones 20/40 miles away, and life as a solid Championship club with the odd attempt to trouble the play offs. I think most of us would be happy at that, right?

[Muttley]

I think all of us would in an ideal world want the following to be our model in the long term: ownership of the KMS, Doncaster people owning/running the club, an astute manager playing good football and operating on a sensible budget, Doncaster people coming to watch their LOCAL club and not ones 20/40 miles away, and life as a solid Championship club with the odd attempt to trouble the play offs. I think most of us would be happy at that, right?

Pretty much, although not too bothered about DRFC owning the Keepmoat - I'd prefer it to be a fully utilised facility for the whole community, now if you could do this in the way they do in Barcelona (I know, I know) with all the various sports teams (basketball, handball, hockey etc) under one umbrella organisation (Dons, Belles etc), that would be perfect for me.

[The Red Baron]

I think all of us would in an ideal world want the following to be our model in the long term: ownership of the KMS, Doncaster people owning/running the club, an astute manager playing good football and operating on a sensible budget, Doncaster people coming to watch their LOCAL club and not ones 20/40 miles away, and life as a solid Championship club with the odd attempt to trouble the play offs. I think most of us would be happy at that, right?

I agree with the above, but it is a Vision. How we achieve that Vision is the difficult part. We managed to achieve some of it, but without the other bits it doesn't really work long-term. I'd love to see us with a waiting list for season tickets, but the gates are going down, not up. Something has to give.

[timdrfc]

Oh how SOME Rovers fans just want to be miserable & moan  about anything the club does.

A football agent earns money from selling players , we get the in-cenavised  Premiership players for relatively free we hopefully get an improved playing staff, if not they won't get there move! How is this doom & gloom ?
We have an agent who wants to earn money as surly we all do  but we as a club benefit , i don't get the negativity , i bet if we do well quiet a lot of clubs will start doing the same.

The moaners seem quiet happy for the board to keep throwing there money away for OUR club whilst some won't pay £27 to watch the Rovers.

[5minstogo]

Oh how SOME Rovers fans just want to be miserable & moan  about anything the club does.

A football agent earns money from selling players , we get the in-cenavised  Premiership players for relatively free we hopefully get an improved playing staff, if not they won't get there move! How is this doom & gloom ?
We have an agent who wants to earn money as surly we all do  but we as a club benefit , i don't get the negativity , i bet if we do well quiet a lot of clubs will start doing the same.

The moaners seem quiet happy for the board to keep throwing there money away for OUR club whilst some won't pay £27 to watch the Rovers.

I'm quite happy to say I won't pay £27 to watch Rovers, or any other team for that matter.  I don't expect JR and co to throw money at it. If we are a League 1 or 2 club due to fanbase then so be it. If they have a vision that they can make the Premier League by doing this then again so be it. It's not up to me.

[grayx]

I'm really not sure if this is going to work or not. I realise we had to do something to stay in the championship,but I was rather hoping Saunders would be given chance to buy his own players & prove he can manage on what we all know is a small budget. One thing is for sure,Willie Mc Kay will do what is best for Willie McKay. Please JR don't insult fans intelligence by saying Mc Kay loves this club & wants to help us. That's b*llocks.
Where the McKay involvement ends worries me. How long before he's picking the team (a la Richardson era) or even getting involved in the ownership of the stadium.
Please JR tread very,very carefully when dealing with this guy.
I hope this is only a short-term measure to ensure our championship survival for the next two years.
Called me old fashioned but I prefer to have a stable squad that are owned by the club & can build a team spirit. It,s difficult to do this when players are changing every week.

[Alonzo Drake]

\"My Rovers died a couple of weeks ago.\"

I continually gasp in disbelieve at some of the comments on this forum!

The Rovers have died so many times in its history, and in my history watching them -- in 1902/03, and 1904/5, 1914/15, 1939/40, 1947/48, 1957/58. 1958/59, 1966/67, 1970/71, 1973/74, 1978/79, and in 1987/88 -- by the 1990s it was selling portions of its pitch to survive, just before Richardson's deconstruction.

Even JR pulled out of the club when Richardson took it over. It has been a long history of struggle and disappointment. Many on her remember our gates in the 1970s -- we proud fans called ourselves members of the 1500 club, because we could just scrape 1,500 fans together each home game playing Workington and Barrow. So many good players were sold or given away, and the club was repeatedly mismanaged, way before Richardson came on Board.

Of course we'd like to become a well run club playing 'our' players in the Championship on low wages in front of 8,000 faithful fans at the Keepmoat, occasionally swelled by 2/3,000.
away followers.

So many 'fans' balk at 27 quid for home matches! How else could the club even try to compete in the Championship on diminishing gates? JR could have thrown the towel in, and it would be back into D4, and we'd be a well liked, well run club -- everyone's second favorite club.

Screw that, let's pay and play these mercenaries, and let's annoy the shit out of Leeds, Barnsley, Owls and Blades fans.

Chimbonda and Co are loan players by another name, and it is irrelevant if they kiss their badges or not. No one complains about Mason, Parkin and co, nor about Billy when he was on loan!

McKay's players will have the red and white hoops on, and they will help fill the Keepmoat, and keep us in the Championship -- and JR knows that this will get us in the Premier League for a season or so, and fill our coffers so we can have some longer term investment.

What a bold, insightful move John Ryan! Well done. If it fails, it backs to Yeovil and Crewe, where we were headed anyway.

[Jonathan]

What a bold, insightful move John Ryan!

Are you sure it is John Ryan's move?

Interetsting to see Dick Watson speaking out in the paper today to justify the new strategy. He's had to take a bit of a more prominent role explaining away a few things lately.

I'm sure John Ryan will still be the grinning face at the forefront of it, but I have my own opinion as to whether this is genuinely his move, or whether he's just been moved along with it.

[Thinwhiteduke]

What a bold, insightful move John Ryan!

Are you sure it is John Ryan's move?

Interetsting to see Dick Watson speaking out in the paper today to justify the new strategy. He's had to take a bit of a more prominent role explaining away a few things lately.

I'm sure John Ryan will still be the grinning face at the forefront of it, but I have my own opinion as to whether this is genuinely his move, or whether he's just been moved along with it.

Working well this afternoon so far I see...watch us climb that table

[benaldo]

So all this Agents contacts, the glut of \"disgruntled premiership standard footballers\", and we end up with........a left back whose parent club couldn't wait to get rid of him, a permenently injured goalkeeper, and a defender who is already lining up another move in a couple of months regardless of if he plays well here or not?!!

Not a business model I'd like to stick to.

I had hoped things would be better, instead Rovers will become a dumping ground for rejects with no obligation to play well while they are here. And behind it all, a man who has been suspected, although not proved, of inproper dealings within football.

Are the shark like money men taking the cheap and desperate way out of a relegation battle? And are they prostituting the club in the process?

Pretty shitty isn't it, when at the moment (0-1 to Portsmouth and second from the bottom) the only people benefitting are the players.....


I predict this could be the end of Rovers as we know it.

Edit - ps Jonathon, if you doubt the £8 million wage bill, take a look at the thread showing the Rovesr company acounts from 2009/10. It is quite clear that £8 million is a realistic figure.

[Thinwhiteduke]

So all this Agents contacts, the glut of \"disgruntled premiership standard footballers\", and we end up with........a left back whose parent club couldn't wait to get rid of him, a permenently injured goalkeeper, and a defender who is already lining up another move in a couple of months regardless of if he plays well here or not?!!

Not a business model I'd like to stick to.

I had hoped things would be better, instead Rovers will become a dumping ground for rejects with no obligation to play well while they are here. And behind it all, a man who has been suspected, although not proved, of inproper dealings within football.

Are the shark like money men taking the cheap and desperate way out of a relegation battle? And are they prostituting the club in the process?

Pretty shitty isn't it, when at the moment (0-1 to Portsmouth and second from the bottom) the only people benefitting are the players.....


I predict this could be the end of Rovers as we know it.

Edit - ps Jonathon, if you doubt the £8 million wage bill, take a look at the thread showing the Rovesr company acounts from 2009/10. It is quite clear that £8 million is a realistic figure.

You know what...I agree with every word.

How ironic that for a Club that has always been careful with its dealings with agents...we have now sold our souls to one who could potentially be the death of us.

Nothing short of embarrassing this afternoon.

[Red wizard]

But what can we do about it? The way i see it is we will go down this year. Some players are getting worse by the game. When these so called better players arrive then we could but a long way adrift. Then what? This is like a bad dream and i can't belive JR would of done this.

[RoversAlias]

The real Benaldo is back! I've missed him an' all!

That's the thing isn't it, what the hell can we do? If the results and performances continue like this, maybe Ryan and everyone else will wake up and smell the coffee - a coffee that has the distinct smell of failure, madness and the bogs at Huish Park where we will surely be finding ourselves at next season.

[Jonathan]

Had an interesting chat with a respected former player tonight.

Some people will not be bothered whether our current players are on board with this plan or not - we can always bring in famous new ones afterall.

Unfortunately I'm gutted with what's going on and what's in the plan for January.

[Donnylass]

After reading all the comments about how demoralised players will be because of the threat of new loan players and 'How do we expect them to play good football' because of the new situation, well maybe I'm over simplyfying it but surely if they played to the best of their ability, trained hard and gave it their all week in week out they wouldn't have to worry about their position in the squad, because DS would be happy to play them. Like a lot of people I'm on the verge of possible redundancy and I'm not sulking at work, or taking time off, or only doing a half job. I'm working damned hard to make sure I'm indespensible to my bosses, so I keep my job. Footballers are no different.

[Wellred]

After reading all the comments about how demoralised players will be because of the threat of new loan players and 'How do we expect them to play good football' because of the new situation, well maybe I'm over simplyfying it but surely if they played to the best of their ability, trained hard and gave it their all week in week out they wouldn't have to worry about their position in the squad, because DS would be happy to play them. Like a lot of people I'm on the verge of possible redundancy and I'm not sulking at work, or taking time off, or only doing a half job. I'm working damned hard to make sure I'm indespensible to my bosses, so I keep my job. Footballers are no different.

I think an awful lot of the whining male posters on this forum should take note of the above post and think good and hard about what drivel some of you are posting.

It seems the most sensible comment to date on the whole subject has come from a female.

I am not being patronising in any way but WELL DONE Donnylass.

[RoversAlias]

You're not patronising? Alright then...Donnylass undoubtedly makes a good point, but the fact that she's a woman and us \"whining male posters\" are indeed male really isn't relevant to anything, is it?

I don't think the issue is that the present players wouldn't play good enough football if new short-term deals were procured, it's more that a good team chemistry, togetherness and spirit can be fostered in a squad to great effect, sometimes making up for a few shortfalls in skill on the field. I think what some people are saying is that this may not be a possibility if half the squad is like a conveyor belt running through the French second division every three months, which is a fair point in my opinion.

[Thinwhiteduke]

You're not patronising? Alright then...Donnylass undoubtedly makes a good point, but the fact that she's a woman and us \"whining male posters\" are indeed male really isn't relevant to anything, is it?

I don't think the issue is that the present players wouldn't play good enough football if new short-term deals were procured, it's more that a good team chemistry, togetherness and spirit can be fostered in a squad to great effect, sometimes making up for a few shortfalls in skill on the field. I think what some people are saying is that this may not be a possibility if half the squad is like a conveyor belt running through the French second division every three months, which is a fair point in my opinion.

Wellred is full of contradiction and...like you say it certainly reads patronising.

Of course, in his world his opinion is a hundred times more valid than yours and everything if rosy in the Doncaster Rovers garden...so keep it down? Ok?

[Wellred]

You're not patronising? Alright then...Donnylass undoubtedly makes a good point, but the fact that she's a woman and us \"whining male posters\" are indeed male really isn't relevant to anything, is it?

I don't think the issue is that the present players wouldn't play good enough football if new short-term deals were procured, it's more that a good team chemistry, togetherness and spirit can be fostered in a squad to great effect, sometimes making up for a few shortfalls in skill on the field. I think what some people are saying is that this may not be a possibility if half the squad is like a conveyor belt running through the French second division every three months, which is a fair point in my opinion.

Wellred is full of contradiction and...like you say it certainly reads patronising.

Of course, in his world his opinion is a hundred times more valid than yours and everything if rosy in the Doncaster Rovers garden...so keep it down? Ok?

I learnt everything about being patronising from you though.

I have never said everything in the garden is rosy. But on the other hand unlike some I have never intimated that the end is nigh!

I am prepared to give the new strategy a try in the hope that it works.
I am prepared to give the new manager a chance.

Can you say the same?

[Norfolk N Chance]

You're not patronising? Alright then...Donnylass undoubtedly makes a good point, but the fact that she's a woman and us \"whining male posters\" are indeed male really isn't relevant to anything, is it?

I don't think the issue is that the present players wouldn't play good enough football if new short-term deals were procured, it's more that a good team chemistry, togetherness and spirit can be fostered in a squad to great effect, sometimes making up for a few shortfalls in skill on the field. I think what some people are saying is that this may not be a possibility if half the squad is like a conveyor belt running through the French second division every three months, which is a fair point in my opinion.

Wellred is full of contradiction and...like you say it certainly reads patronising.

Of course, in his world his opinion is a hundred times more valid than yours and everything if rosy in the Doncaster Rovers garden...so keep it down? Ok?

Wellred is totally right .....change is needed and this could be one of the masterstrokes of all time!

[RoversAlias]

It could be Norfolk, yes. But if we have to sacrifice our identity and affinity with the club for it, I'd rather we just didn't bother, took our lumps and tried our best to stay up in the manner that we have conducted ourselves for the last god knows how many years. And if that leads to our relegation, so be it...because being relegated back to the third tier is definitely not the end of the world. We proved a decade ago that getting relegated out of the league altogether and into the Conference was not the end of the world, so why should we accept what JR says and suddenly believe that going back to League 1 would be?

I admire your faith and optimism in all of this Norfolk, but we learnt at this football club a long time ago to not just stick the blinkers on the sides of our faces and accept what the mighty powers-that-be were telling us.

Wellred, you're writing off those of us that have concerns just as much as you think we are writing off Saunders/McKay/the club. You are acting like anything me, Jonathan, ThinWhiteDuke and anyone else who shares our view say is not allowed to be voiced, as if it is all complete insanity and that the fact we dare question a dodgy football agent taking this role he has gotten for himself.