McKays' scheming

[edwingray]

The idea of players going out on loan to put them in the shop window has been going on for years, but this has now been cranked up to make it its own industry. It would interest me how much of the future transfer fees you are going to make from this venture, as this might mean it's only being used to raise funds for new players, making this idea only a temporary arrangement.

On one hand I think it's an interesting arrangement, on the other I'm glad it isn't us who are doing this, as like others say it really takes the soul out of the club.

The obvious danger to me is that the trail might at some point run dry and all the \"core\" players have already left.

Really do hope though that this helps you and gets you back up the table.

[Wellred]

It could be Norfolk, yes. But if we have to sacrifice our identity and affinity with the club for it, I'd rather we just didn't bother, took our lumps and tried our best to stay up in the manner that we have conducted ourselves for the last god knows how many years. And if that leads to our relegation, so be it...because being relegated back to the third tier is definitely not the end of the world. We proved a decade ago that getting relegated out of the league altogether and into the Conference was not the end of the world, so why should we accept what JR says and suddenly believe that going back to League 1 would be?

I admire your faith and optimism in all of this Norfolk, but we learnt at this football club a long time ago to not just stick the blinkers on the sides of our faces and accept what the mighty powers-that-be were telling us.

Wellred, you're writing off those of us that have concerns just as much as you think we are writing off Saunders/McKay/the club. You are acting like anything me, Jonathan, ThinWhiteDuke and anyone else who shares our view say is not allowed to be voiced, as if it is all complete insanity and that the fact we dare question a dodgy football agent taking this role he has gotten for himself.

You are wrong RoversAlias. I am not writing off those of you who do have concerns. I think we all have concerns.
I am not asking you to agree or disagree with me. I have my views you have yours and you are entitled to them.
All I am asking is that your views are based on truths and not on suppositions.
There have been so many scare mongering stories and statements which are a million miles from the truth and equally there are things that have happened and been told to people who were in attendance by the chairman of the club that some people have inferred him to be a liar.
Whilst I do not always agree with Jonathan's stance and to a lesser extent yours. I am sorry but the TWD just prints absolute b******s. as his 6 point post shows.

[Standanista]

I think we face a range of options for the future, none of which is particuarly palatable. In an ideal world we would be able to secure new investment (or at least someone else prepared to fund the losses), but I don't think that is very likely to happen. There are only so many Sheikh Mansoors and Abramovichs out there!

So the alternatives are accept the inevitability of relegation or try a different approach. If we go down, we might become a yo-yo club, like Scunny. More likely we will find our level in League One, with a reduced wage bill but also reduced income, a declining fanbase and a large stadium to try to fill. In other words, the same problem we have now but with smaller numbers.

I don't think Willie McKay is in this \"for the good of Doncaster Rovers\" (he's admitted as much himself) nor do I think his business model is without flaws. But I don't necessarily see the McKay-DRFC relationship as a \"zero-sum game\"- it is possible that both parties could benefit. In the absence of anything better, I will give it a try and judge the success or otherwise at the end of the season. At least McKay has a vested interest in us staying up- otherwise his shop window doesn't look very attractive!

That's pretty much how I see it.

[keepmoatman]

After reading all the comments about how demoralised players will be because of the threat of new loan players and 'How do we expect them to play good football' because of the new situation, well maybe I'm over simplyfying it but surely if they played to the best of their ability, trained hard and gave it their all week in week out they wouldn't have to worry about their position in the squad, because DS would be happy to play them. Like a lot of people I'm on the verge of possible redundancy and I'm not sulking at work, or taking time off, or only doing a half job. I'm working damned hard to make sure I'm indespensible to my bosses, so I keep my job. Footballers are no different.

Should you not be ironing or knitting or something ?
And i am being patronising , then again i am allowed

[Donnylass]

After reading all the comments about how demoralised players will be because of the threat of new loan players and 'How do we expect them to play good football' because of the new situation, well maybe I'm over simplyfying it but surely if they played to the best of their ability, trained hard and gave it their all week in week out they wouldn't have to worry about their position in the squad, because DS would be happy to play them. Like a lot of people I'm on the verge of possible redundancy and I'm not sulking at work, or taking time off, or only doing a half job. I'm working damned hard to make sure I'm indespensible to my bosses, so I keep my job. Footballers are no different.

Should you not be ironing or knitting or something ?
And i am being patronising , then again i am allowed

That's fine I'll do those things, and you can cook your own dinner tonight

[Pintolager]

Regarding Mckay and his plans. What is this Twitter feed I am reading on this site about Victoria Beckham possibly designing something for us? He wants her to email him details or something.

Just how much influence is WM having.....and not just with bringing players in. I do hope I am reading this totally wrong!

[Berkshire Rover]

Regarding Mckay and his plans. What is this Twitter feed I am reading on this site about Victoria Beckham possibly designing something for us? He wants her to email him details or something.

Just how much influence is WM having.....and not just with bringing players in. I do hope I am reading this totally wrong!

Are you actually serious?

[Pintolager]

I may have overreacted with that post, but how much control does he have at the club? I'm sure you can understand people's concerns with this new venture. I am happy to see how it goes, but don't want us to become a joke as no-one does.

[Wellred]

oh s**t I thought you was serious. :cry:

[Spike]

There have been a few Willy(or should that be Wily) McKay's suddenly appear on Twitter. lol

When I started this thread I was worried, no, very worried about where these latest developments will be taking our club.  After thinking about everything I have read on here, reading other articles in the news and on other forums, talking to other Rovers fans and scribbling down pro's and cons for all the arguments, I am coming round to thinking it could be the best option we have, to go with Willy Mckay's scheme.  I can see problems happening but I am going to keep supporting JR, DS, every player that puts on the red and white hooped shirt even(begrudgingly) Willy McKay.
At the end of the day we will get the best out of it all if we all stick together and be supportive.
Bring on Coventry and 3pts.

Steve

[Mr1Croft]

Although I've seen pictures of him everytime I read his name I can only see Richardson in my head.

And that is what worries me most...

[Jonathan]

Although I've seen pictures of him everytime I read his name I can only see Richardson in my head.

And that is what worries me most...

Honestly I don't think we can draw parallels with the Richardson regime. It's always going to be the underlying basis of many of our fears where ownership and direction are concerned but we do still have John Ryan involved, and while he may not have the influence he once had, he unquestionably has the interests of the club at heart.

I don't trust McKay at all, I don't like the direction we're taking and I can't warm to it as a way of operating my club, but we're a long long way from being able to compare the running of the club between now and then.

Hopefully the Richardson days were a one off. I think the worries people have now are genuine and justified, but different.

[MrFrost]

For those of us who were there in the Richardson era, who can blame us for being worried. While it may not be a similar situation, it just doesn't seem right. Halving the wage bill? That is a mammoth task for starters, and the fact that Mckay has the say on transfers in and out for the next two years just sounds absurd.

[wilts rover]

Although I've seen pictures of him everytime I read his name I can only see Richardson in my head.

And that is what worries me most...

Yes I can see the slimey parrallels, but one very major difference, the worse we played and the worse we were as a club, the better it was for Richardson who was trying to destroy us - the better we play and the better we are as a team, the better it is for Mckay who is trying to use us to make money.

[hoolahoop]

Although I've seen pictures of him everytime I read his name I can only see Richardson in my head.

And that is what worries me most...

Honestly I don't think we can draw parallels with the Richardson regime. It's always going to be the underlying basis of many of our fears where ownership and direction are concerned but we do still have John Ryan involved, and while he may not have the influence he once had, he unquestionably has the interests of the club at heart.

I don't trust McKay at all, I don't like the direction we're taking and I can't warm to it as a way of operating my club, but we're a long long way from being able to compare the running of the club between now and then.

Hopefully the Richardson days were a one off. I think the worries people have now are genuine and justified, but different.

I have thought long and hard about the pros and cons about the current 'muddy' arrangement and can categorically state that I am totally and utterly against what is being proposed.
Quite simply it just won't work imo and I can only see the selling off of our'crown jewels' (admittedly there aren't alot) in the near future. Morale will and is simply ebbing away from the contracted players, there will no longer be a team an entity but a few passing strangers wearing the Hoops trying to get on the 'gravy train' again probably at the expense of our decent current players. They say there is no 'I' in team but Jeez we are about to see exactly tat from a few players passing through.
Bad bad move..............

Anyone see the likes of Peterborough/ Barnsley and the ilk struggling for the lack of having a rogue agent in charge of their affairs ?

[Norfolk N Chance]

Although I've seen pictures of him everytime I read his name I can only see Richardson in my head.

And that is what worries me most...

Honestly I don't think we can draw parallels with the Richardson regime. It's always going to be the underlying basis of many of our fears where ownership and direction are concerned but we do still have John Ryan involved, and while he may not have the influence he once had, he unquestionably has the interests of the club at heart.

I don't trust McKay at all, I don't like the direction we're taking and I can't warm to it as a way of operating my club, but we're a long long way from being able to compare the running of the club between now and then.

Hopefully the Richardson days were a one off. I think the worries people have now are genuine and justified, but different.

I have thought long and hard about the pros and cons about the current 'muddy' arrangement and can categorically state that I am totally and utterly against what is being proposed.
Quite simply it just won't work imo and I can only see the selling off of our'crown jewels' (admittedly there aren't alot) in the near future. Morale will and is simply ebbing away from the contracted players, there will no longer be a team an entity but a few passing strangers wearing the Hoops trying to get on the 'gravy train' again probably at the expense of our decent current players. They say there is no 'I' in team but Jeez we are about to see exactly tat from a few players passing through.
Bad bad move..............

Can they do any worse? At least this way we are not getting into debt and touch wood we might win some games!

[grayx]

the fact that Mckay has the say on transfers in and out for the next two years just sounds absurd.

EXACTLY. Thats the point that worries me. I could reluctantly go along with the rest of this unusual arrangement but this aspect of it is so wrong.

[Norfolk N Chance]

the fact that Mckay has the say on transfers in and out for the next two years just sounds absurd.

EXACTLY. Thats the point that worries me. I could reluctantly go along with the rest of this unusual arrangement but this aspect of it is so wrong.

Saunders can veto any of transfers and no doubt contractually can be cancelled if all parties believe not working?

In practice I am sure it will be saunders that suggests the player and area that needs  strengthening as any normal manager!

[Thinwhiteduke]

Saunders can veto any of transfers and no doubt contractually can be cancelled if all parties believe not working?

Saunders will veto bugger all - he'll do what he's told by his master McKay.

[Mr1Croft]

I'm against the whole idea of it, full stop. None of it makes sense, I've been running it through my head and after a couple of days to think about it I think I'm ready to have my say put across.

I'll start with the whole beginning of the arrangement; I cannot bear thinking that John Ryan has sold out SOD for this guy, but someone did post about SOD not liking Mckay as a person long ago (I think it was Silent Majority), if this is the case, and how this all started up then the actions by John Ryan in particular (due to the fact of publicly backing him) do really sicken me.

Now before we get onto McKay I don't see what logic has made the board think the wage bill needs cutting in half. Have they conceded relegation? Lets assume the staff get paid for 50 weeks I'm not sure if its more or lett, but a bit of simple maths

£4 million/50 (weekly wage bill) = £80000

I read Mckay is looking around wages of £2000 per week for players so

£80000/£2000 (no. of employees) = 40

40. 4T. Forty employees, this is to cover the players and coaching team (manager, assistant, Coaches, Physio etc.,) and Saunders wants a reserve team? Sounds like a nice little plan.

The character of Mckay aside, I doubt when this plan is fully under way will be a case of 5 players coming in on loan, then 3 months 5 differeny players replace them. But more like one or two in January till March, few more arrive in February till April and so on. Those that have defended Dean Saunders slow start have said things such as \"He doesn't know the squad yet, needs time to blend them\" and yet these people expect him to manage us onto great things with an ever changing squad every month? As much as Dean deserves time, is this really the right model for him to be the manager? Heck could any manager work with such a squad changing every other week?

2 years in charge of transfers, and then what? Will we continue like this? Or is this a relativley short term plan to try and make a profit?

These type of questions haven't been answered just yet, and no doubt most want these answers. But what happens if we get relegated? Will this still attract the players Mckay wants? or does the once big time players soon become West Brom reserve players turning up to play for us? How can we rely on the squad we have left when they are bieng shoved to the back of the locker for the sake of the club.

This brings us to the players, how do they feel? With such big names around them the current squad will see moral depleted by:

1) New short term players taking the limelight while they still remain property of DRFC
2) Under pressure to \"provide\" the service these great players deserve
3) Living in fear of someone better(known) taking their place

As for McKay, well I'll use a quote from a Harlan Coben character \"Man Plans; God Laughs\" except in this case we plan; McKay laughs, I don't blame SOD for not liking him as a person in all honesty, the man reeks of corruption (and probably reeks of the local chippy as well). He represents everything that has turned this wonderful game into the dissaray it has become today in this day and age. It dazzles me as to how John Ryan could let this man anywhere near the football club he built from scratch.

A clear sign from the board with lack of investment in the next few years; a policy of a constant changing squad with a manager who \"needs time to get the squad playing\" (from people who have defended him) and a corrupted agent only interested in lining his pockets is a recipe for disaster; how anyone on here can look at this proposed model and agree with it is beyond me. Each to their own and everything; but even if we do pull it off, an average wage of £2000 per player is not going to win us games at this division.

Corruptio optimi pessima!

[Norfolk N Chance]

Think we all have opinions and there no doubt the strategy is risky and could quite clearly fail and all will depend on man management etc.

What I don’t accept is people are within their discussion points suggesting ;-
1) Club not being transparent
2) Club is deceiving the public/fans
3) Club is corrupt

Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick?

Are the doubters suggesting this? Come On Duke, Croft what are you actually saying here?

[Mr1Croft]

Think we all have opinions and there no doubt the strategy is risky and could quite clearly fail and all will depend on man management etc.

What I don’t accept is people are within their discussion points suggesting ;-
1) Club not being transparent
2) Club is deceiving the public/fans
3) Club is corrupt

Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick?

Are the doubters suggesting this? Come On Duke, Croft what are you actually saying here?

I'm not accusing the club of any of these, I'm saying the club is heading to becoming all 3 for the sake of a few quid.

The club is desperatley searching for a turn around of fortunes and are trying something very radical which will have huge consequences if it fails, but I fail to see the advantages if it works. £4 million? What can honestly be achieved? Could we get the players for the same wages if we were promoted? We would demand a higher level of players and that demands a higher wage bill, and thats higher than the current £8 million.

[Norfolk N Chance]

Think we all have opinions and there no doubt the strategy is risky and could quite clearly fail and all will depend on man management etc.

What I don’t accept is people are within their discussion points suggesting ;-
1) Club not being transparent
2) Club is deceiving the public/fans
3) Club is corrupt

Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick?

Are the doubters suggesting this? Come On Duke, Croft what are you actually saying here?

I'm not accusing the club of any of these, I'm saying the club is heading to becoming all 3 for the sake of a few quid.

The club is desperatley searching for a turn around of fortunes and are trying something very radical which will have huge consequences if it fails, but I fail to see the advantages if it works. £4 million? What can honestly be achieved? Could we get the players for the same wages if we were promoted? We would demand a higher level of players and that demands a higher wage bill, and thats higher than the current £8 million.

Right I will add weight to the agrument there are two business models that could work in our position our new one or the Dingles (recruiting from lower leagues).

My gut feeling is that the Dingle  one will fail - working fine now but wait until the injuries take there toll and you are lose key players like Butterfield.

Then there ours and as above this could fail but alternatively if could be the best thing EVER!

[bpoolrover]

its similar to what blackpool did when they got promoted,that season they went thru about 20-24 loan players and it didnt do them any harm.

[Mr1Croft]

Think we all have opinions and there no doubt the strategy is risky and could quite clearly fail and all will depend on man management etc.

What I don’t accept is people are within their discussion points suggesting ;-
1) Club not being transparent
2) Club is deceiving the public/fans
3) Club is corrupt

Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick?

Are the doubters suggesting this? Come On Duke, Croft what are you actually saying here?

I'm not accusing the club of any of these, I'm saying the club is heading to becoming all 3 for the sake of a few quid.

The club is desperatley searching for a turn around of fortunes and are trying something very radical which will have huge consequences if it fails, but I fail to see the advantages if it works. £4 million? What can honestly be achieved? Could we get the players for the same wages if we were promoted? We would demand a higher level of players and that demands a higher wage bill, and thats higher than the current £8 million.

Right I will add weight to the agrument there are two business models that could work in our position our new one or the Dingles (recruiting from lower leagues).

My gut feeling is that the Dingle  one will fail - working fine now but wait until the injuries take there toll and you are lose key players like Butterfield.

Then there ours and as above this could fail but alternatively if could be the best thing EVER!

I have said in the past 2 posts reasons why it would be miserable if it fails.

Now can you point out how this \"could be the best thing EVER!\" ?

[Norfolk N Chance]

Think we all have opinions and there no doubt the strategy is risky and could quite clearly fail and all will depend on man management etc.

What I don’t accept is people are within their discussion points suggesting ;-
1) Club not being transparent
2) Club is deceiving the public/fans
3) Club is corrupt

Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick?

Are the doubters suggesting this? Come On Duke, Croft what are you actually saying here?

I'm not accusing the club of any of these, I'm saying the club is heading to becoming all 3 for the sake of a few quid.

The club is desperatley searching for a turn around of fortunes and are trying something very radical which will have huge consequences if it fails, but I fail to see the advantages if it works. £4 million? What can honestly be achieved? Could we get the players for the same wages if we were promoted? We would demand a higher level of players and that demands a higher wage bill, and thats higher than the current £8 million.

Right I will add weight to the agrument there are two business models that could work in our position our new one or the Dingles (recruiting from lower leagues).

My gut feeling is that the Dingle  one will fail - working fine now but wait until the injuries take there toll and you are lose key players like Butterfield.

Then there ours and as above this could fail but alternatively if could be the best thing EVER!

I have said in the past 2 posts reasons why it would be miserable if it fails.

Now can you point out how this \"could be the best thing EVER!\" ?

Cos we may get the pot of gold and bring Premiership football to the KM, you know dare to dream and all that and that which would ensure we are financially stable for next 10 years!!

You are not really suggesting any solution are you?

The current model is losing millions and we lose virtually every week!

SO obviously you must suggest going back down the leagues? Which is the only alternative is it not?

Some merit to this and could be that yo yo club but we could quite easily go all the way back to the non league.

The ground situation brings great pressure re crowds and I would suggest this could bring bankruptcy?

Or you expecting uncle John to help you again the very same person who has employed the \"DEVIL\"!!!

Sadly nothing in life is easy and I for one back the board in their brave new world!

[Mr1Croft]

Think we all have opinions and there no doubt the strategy is risky and could quite clearly fail and all will depend on man management etc.

What I don’t accept is people are within their discussion points suggesting ;-
1) Club not being transparent
2) Club is deceiving the public/fans
3) Club is corrupt

Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick?

Are the doubters suggesting this? Come On Duke, Croft what are you actually saying here?

I'm not accusing the club of any of these, I'm saying the club is heading to becoming all 3 for the sake of a few quid.

The club is desperatley searching for a turn around of fortunes and are trying something very radical which will have huge consequences if it fails, but I fail to see the advantages if it works. £4 million? What can honestly be achieved? Could we get the players for the same wages if we were promoted? We would demand a higher level of players and that demands a higher wage bill, and thats higher than the current £8 million.

Right I will add weight to the agrument there are two business models that could work in our position our new one or the Dingles (recruiting from lower leagues).

My gut feeling is that the Dingle  one will fail - working fine now but wait until the injuries take there toll and you are lose key players like Butterfield.

Then there ours and as above this could fail but alternatively if could be the best thing EVER!

I have said in the past 2 posts reasons why it would be miserable if it fails.

Now can you point out how this \"could be the best thing EVER!\" ?

Cos we may get the pot of gold and bring Premiership football to the KM, you know dare to dream and all that and that which would ensure we are financially stable for next 10 years!!

You are not really suggesting any solution are you?

The current model is losing millions and we lose virtually every week!

SO obviously you must suggest going back down the leagues? Which is the only alternative is it not?

Some merit to this and could be that yo yo club but we could quite easily go all the way back to the non league.

The ground situation brings great pressure re crowds and I would suggest this could bring bankruptcy?

Or you expecting uncle John to help you again the very same person who has employed the \"DEVIL\"!!!

Sadly nothing in life is easy and I for one back the board in their brave new world!

There is only one solution to sucess in football; investment, investment and more investment. Don't beleive me look at the team that was once 20,000 under capacity which now sell out their ground virtually every game and romped arguably one of the best teams in the world this afternoon.

When we was in the conference our attendance improved, the club wasn't winning every week, but why did more and more turn up? John Ryan put his hand in his pocket, it may not seem like much then, but it was huge amounts for conference level and the attendances rose. Attendances come with sucess, but heavy investment also help the situation. Clubs such as Leciester and Forest who invest millions into the squad see this rewarded with the fans turning out in numbers; people start talking of promotion and more bums on seats.

The club failed to back the (now previous manager) in pre season with the investment needed and ST sales dropped, the recent arrivals have shown slight increase in attendance (along with those vital 3 results). People will not go out and buy season tickets now because we are a quarter of the way through the season and for the price they are asking you can probably understand where they are coming from.

Wth the current squad and the failure to invest I would have rather seen us relegated with a stable platform to rebuild, rather than tearing down the current structure and buidling from scratch which would be a real struggle to recover from if we do go down.

Of course that is now the vital point in whether this is a sucess or not; if we stay up with games to spare and finish mid table then we may be moving in the right direction and I'll stand corrected; but the risk involved is too high and if anything I have learnt over the past decade JR and the relatively new board are not big gamblers; if so we would have seen more investment.

The money is there; we saw it when we wanted Sharp; but in truth it was the right investment at the wrong time; most felt a defender was more of a priority and you have to ask if we did have one would our season had been so badly last season which has had the knock on effect which has brought this about...

[Norfolk N Chance]

Think we all have opinions and there no doubt the strategy is risky and could quite clearly fail and all will depend on man management etc.

What I don’t accept is people are within their discussion points suggesting ;-
1) Club not being transparent
2) Club is deceiving the public/fans
3) Club is corrupt

Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick?

Are the doubters suggesting this? Come On Duke, Croft what are you actually saying here?

I'm not accusing the club of any of these, I'm saying the club is heading to becoming all 3 for the sake of a few quid.

The club is desperatley searching for a turn around of fortunes and are trying something very radical which will have huge consequences if it fails, but I fail to see the advantages if it works. £4 million? What can honestly be achieved? Could we get the players for the same wages if we were promoted? We would demand a higher level of players and that demands a higher wage bill, and thats higher than the current £8 million.

Right I will add weight to the agrument there are two business models that could work in our position our new one or the Dingles (recruiting from lower leagues).

My gut feeling is that the Dingle  one will fail - working fine now but wait until the injuries take there toll and you are lose key players like Butterfield.

Then there ours and as above this could fail but alternatively if could be the best thing EVER!

I have said in the past 2 posts reasons why it would be miserable if it fails.

Now can you point out how this \"could be the best thing EVER!\" ?

Cos we may get the pot of gold and bring Premiership football to the KM, you know dare to dream and all that and that which would ensure we are financially stable for next 10 years!!

You are not really suggesting any solution are you?

The current model is losing millions and we lose virtually every week!

SO obviously you must suggest going back down the leagues? Which is the only alternative is it not?

Some merit to this and could be that yo yo club but we could quite easily go all the way back to the non league.

The ground situation brings great pressure re crowds and I would suggest this could bring bankruptcy?

Or you expecting uncle John to help you again the very same person who has employed the \"DEVIL\"!!!

Sadly nothing in life is easy and I for one back the board in their brave new world!

There is only one solution to sucess in football; investment, investment and more investment. Don't beleive me look at the team that was once 20,000 under capacity which now sell out their ground virtually every game and romped arguably one of the best teams in the world this afternoon.

When we was in the conference our attendance improved, the club wasn't winning every week, but why did more and more turn up? John Ryan put his hand in his pocket, it may not seem like much then, but it was huge amounts for conference level and the attendances rose. Attendances come with sucess, but heavy investment also help the situation. Clubs such as Leciester and Forest who invest millions into the squad see this rewarded with the fans turning out in numbers; people start talking of promotion and more bums on seats.

The club failed to back the (now previous manager) in pre season with the investment needed and ST sales dropped, the recent arrivals have shown slight increase in attendance (along with those vital 3 results). People will not go out and buy season tickets now because we are a quarter of the way through the season and for the price they are asking you can probably understand where they are coming from.

Wth the current squad and the failure to invest I would have rather seen us relegated with a stable platform to rebuild, rather than tearing down the current structure and buidling from scratch which would be a real struggle to recover from if we do go down.

Of course that is now the vital point in whether this is a sucess or not; if we stay up with games to spare and finish mid table then we may be moving in the right direction and I'll stand corrected; but the risk involved is too high and if anything I have learnt over the past decade JR and the relatively new board are not big gamblers; if so we would have seen more investment.

The money is there; we saw it when we wanted Sharp; but in truth it was the right investment at the wrong time; most felt a defender was more of a priority and you have to ask if we did have one would our season had been so badly last season which has had the knock on effect which has brought this about...

Sadly JR is not a Billionaire and he has done enough he must have pumped between 5-10 million of his own money in over the years.

The reason we have to do this is the apathy of the general public simple as and adding the incredible quality like Diarra is an investment in my book!

[Mr1Croft]

Sadly JR is not a Billionaire and he has done enough he must have pumped between 5-10 million of his own money in over the years.

The reason we have to do this is the apathy of the general public simple as and adding the incredible quality like Diarra is an investment in my book!

Yep £2000 a week; atrocious amount for a footballer.

Best hide my Chelsea shirt; we'll be playing em next year...

[silent majority]

Lee,

You can't possibly talk about investment providing success or otherwise. Its not investment, at our level its called throwing your money away.

You quote Forest as an example, their Chairman has thrown £65m at their problem and look what success its brought him! Leicester I guarantee are in a similar position. To quote somebody last week who said that every club had got the e-mail about sustainability this season, apart from Leicester, it seems they never got it!!

When you have shortfall in your accounts of about £4m a year there is no money for investment.