Did You Realise...

[madmick50]

In the last 2 games we've only had 4 attempts on target. That's an average of 1 every 45 minutes. That is pathetic. Go now Saunders you haven't got a clue!

[silent majority]

Jeez!! Give it a rest!!!

[ditch_drfc]

Madmick I hope you're ready for the abuse you're sure to get from people like me who are f**kING SICK of seeing stupid new threads every day about the same thing.

Go now madmick50 you haven't got a clue!

[Surrey Rover]

Saunders is currently averaging 1.1 points a game which if applied to a 46 game season would give a return of 50.6 points which is the tradionally recognised safety target required to stay in this division. Since promotion to the Championship in 2008 those who have a realistic outlook on the clubs ambitions have been unanimous in their agreement that Championship survival is success for a club of our size and nothing in that respect has changed so his record to date does not justify calls for him to go. Should the addition of further signings bring Saunders average points per game statistic up to 1.32 from now on in then we will be well placed to avoid relegation

Whilst I would be the first to admit we've seen the good the bad and the ugly from Saunders first 10 games in charge the performances at Blackpool and Ipswich were excellent and anyone who suggests the win at Ipswich was lucky wasn't at the game. Barnsley was dreadful so was Leeds but they've gone time to look forward to Watford on Saturday. Just give Saunders a chance, 10 games is too soon to write him off.

[Mr1Croft]

Saunders is currently averaging 1.1 points a game which if applied to a 46 game season would give a return of 50.6 points which is the tradionally recognised safety target required to stay in this division. Since promotion to the Championship in 2008 those who have a realistic outlook on the clubs ambitions have been unanimous in their agreement that Championship survival is success for a club of our size and nothing in that respect has changed so his record to date does not justify calls for him to go. Should the addition of further signings bring Saunders average points per game statistic up to 1.32 from now on in then we will be well placed to avoid relegation

Whilst I would be the first to admit we've seen the good the bad and the ugly from Saunders first 10 games in charge the performances at Blackpool and Ipswich were excellent and anyone who suggests the win at Ipswich was lucky wasn't at the game. Barnsley was dreadful so was Leeds but they've gone time to look forward to Watford on Saturday. Just give Saunders a chance, 10 games is too soon to write him off.

To rely on us getting more points with more players doesn't back up what your saying. At the moment his best results have come in the 3 games against Palace, Hull and Peterborough, the squad (apart from Chimbonda) that was as many would say \"SOD's\" and since SOD's philosophy was appiled in thier minds their was glimpses in all 3 games of SOD still bieng manager. Since his 'own' players have come in and he has appiled his way into the players that are here he is getting an average of just about 0.6 points per game. You could say I'm twisting facts to suit theory, but nothing more than what you are doing.

To say Ipswich was lucky is probably a lie, to say it was down to a beautifal footballing display of 90 minutes of hard work and 100% great performance is also a lie. We played well to get in front and see out half time. Second half and some players switched off, due to over confidence or maybe something else. The win was a combination of a decent performance and luck bieng on our side. Still we did concede 2 goals, which made it look a little less comfortable than it was.

I was probably over reacting when making comments on Saturday calling for his head, but I am starting to question the man's ability as a leader, mentor and tutor of our players. it seems some players he doesn't want to bother putting in the effort to get the best out of them and he is always faultless in all match results as far as his interviews go.

Personally I don't think he has the experience and I think he will do extremely well to suceed here (and by suceed I do mean keep us up, although by the end of the season we will probably have a squad Birmingham wouuld be confident with in the premiership), but as with anything else we should see how it goes. I don't have to be a fan of Saunders to be a fan of DRFC.

[madmick50]

I only use statistics to show how badly Saunders is doing so one or two of you may decide to take off your rose tinted glasses. Here's some more for you. I've done a comparison of the last 2 games with Coventry who are one place above us in the league. In these 2 games they played the top 2 sides in the Championship.

                                         
Attempts on target -  Coventry 13   Donny 4

Attempts off target - Coventry 12   Donny 5

Total-                Coventry 25   Donny 9
 
Our attempts on target include the so called brilliant performance against an injury ravaged Ipswich. If the team just above us is getting almost 3 times as many attempts on goal when playing far superior opposition then God help us.

[dickos1]

Croft and Mick please geta grip. How on earth u can say it was down to sod we beat Peterborough and palace god only knows. The fact we hadn't won in 19 games under sod before that with the same players should say it all. Attempts on target is irrelevant, we had chances against Ipswich to score more than the 3 and good chances at that. When was the last time we scored 3 away from home? Or even at home? And crofty u said Saunders has now brought all his own players in, can u tell me how many of his own players played on sat? I make it all of 3, and 2 of them were our best 2 players.

[madmick50]

You can't just give credit to Saunders for the victories we've had since he came here. At the start of his reign you need to factor in 'new manager syndrome' to partially explain the improved performances.

The longer he has been here the worse things have started to get. Even in the last 2 games when he's had superstar Diouf and Sharp playing for him we are averaging about one attempt on goal for every three attempts our rivals just above us are averaging.

[aidanstu]

Seriously this debate is becoming very very boring and is being fuelled by individuals, such as you mick, who have about as much insite into management as mr muscle has into weight training.
Before blurting out the first thing that comes into your mind, which appears to be a reactionists point of view, stop, think and ask your self;
A) how long into a management role would it be appropriate for people to start blaming you for everything. Particularly when you have been given the failing personnel of the previous manager and the systems they employed?
B) what would change achieve?
C) who do you think rovers could realistically bring in that is going to better our position. Specifically given the business plan the board are currently employing. Ie it's likely to be from mckay's stable.
D) how can you judge Saunders when he hasn't had the opportunity to put the clubs plan in place. Ie no euro loans available due to transfer rules. Has it not occurred to you that players are being brought in until January to get us by until then. All of them to my knowledge have been brought in with the ability to extend their contracts if needed.

Please think things through properly before boring us all with this crap again. That goes for the rest of you lot to.

I was pro sod, times move on and now I'm backing Saunders and the business plan until its proved over time that it doesn't work, then I'll review my decision. Maybe this time next year, championship or otherwise, we can form a proper informed opinion.

[dickos1]

Why on earth u kelp bringing the Ipswich game up for your argument I'll never know. Diouf only scored 2 we scored 3 and we won. Once again ill ask when wad last time we scored 3 away from home? Attempts on target means naff all I'm afraid.

[madmick50]

I was pro sod, times move on and now I'm backing Saunders and the business plan until its proved over time that it doesn't work, then I'll review my decision. Maybe this time next year, championship or otherwise, we can form a proper informed opinion.

If you knew anything about management you'd know that you don't wait for the shit to hit the fan before you react. You do it beforehand. Waiting until the end of the season will be too late when it is obvious now that the strategy is totally flawed and Saunders is useless. Leave it until the end of the season and there's a good chance we will plummet through the leagues and end up back in the Conference. It's my duty to point out the uncomfortable truths and to cut through the sound bites that the management want you to believe.

[madmick50]

Attempts on target means naff all I'm afraid.

I disagree. I think it's an excellent indicator of how well a team is performing. I wouldn't mind betting that the teams at the top of all leagues in the world have the most attempts on target and the teams at the bottom have the fewest.

[aidanstu]

Lets start again shall we...if your position had applied to sod then we may not have won the jpt trophy, got promoted or stayed in the championship ship as you will recall, if you have been supporting the club that long, sods teams were awful for a long time afte he took over.

Can you also give me answers to my questions I ask above. It's not personal mick, I assure you, but these types of posts are I'll informed and counter productive.

[dickos1]

It means naff all when you've scored 3 away from home and won. And created numerous other chances. I'm still waiting for you to tell me when we scored 3 goals away last??

[SiBo]

Derby in March, the last time SOD had Billy available.....

[Wild Rover]

Attempts on target means naff all I'm afraid.

I disagree. I think it's an excellent indicator of how well a team is performing. I wouldn't mind betting that the teams at the top of all leagues in the world have the most attempts on target and the teams at the bottom have the fewest.

By the same reasoning then i bet there are many series of 2, 3,4 games under SOD where Rovers have had 60/40 % of play, and not more than 3 or 4 \"On target\" attempts.
Its as round as its long Mick.

[aidanstu]

Attempts on target means naff all I'm afraid.

I disagree. I think it's an excellent indicator of how well a team is performing. I wouldn't mind betting that the teams at the top of all leagues in the world have the most attempts on target and the teams at the bottom have the fewest.

Mick, not that I'm picking on you, that statistic ain't even true for our own country's top two divisions. It is true man city have shot the most in the premier league, however Wigan have shot more than 8 other teams, so should by your reckoning have mid table respectability.

Southampton have shot less than four other teams meaning that they are no longer getting automatically promoted and Birmingham have had less shots on target than us. So happy days we are no longer rooted to the foot of the table. Like I said think before you speak!!

Ps how much were you betting?

[dickos1]

Derby in March, the last time SOD had Billy available.....

So we score 3 Goals for first time in 30 games and people are moaning.. Beggars belief.

[benaldo]

I only use statistics to show how badly Saunders is doing so one or two of you may decide to take off your rose tinted glasses. Here's some more for you. I've done a comparison of the last 2 games with Coventry who are one place above us in the league. In these 2 games they played the top 2 sides in the Championship.

                                         
Attempts on target -  Coventry 13   Donny 4

Attempts off target - Coventry 12   Donny 5

Total-                Coventry 25   Donny 9
 
Our attempts on target include the so called brilliant performance against an injury ravaged Ipswich. If the team just above us is getting almost 3 times as many attempts on goal when playing far superior opposition then God help us.

Oh dear.....

Well, if the shots stats are a \"brilliant indicator\" then Kenny at Liverpool ought be for the chop because Liverpool have only managed 6 shots on goal in their last two games! Remind me where they are in the premiership again.........?

Thing is madmick50 (is the 50 your age or the year of your birth? I just want to get the picture I have of you right in my head.), SOD has gone, he didn't do anything than scrape survival by the skin of his tea stained teeth. Saunders is here now with SODs players (apart from Diouf. And we all know how rubbish he is....  don't we...) and he's trying to get more quality like Diouf, Ikeme, Chimbonda, Beye, into the squad. How anyone in their right mind can argue that Saunders signings have been all rubbish is beyond me. Chimbonda or Hird? Illunga or Friend? Diouf or Hayter? Beye or Martis? Ikeme or Sullivan?

You're the finest example of an internet troll I think I've ever come across. But I've got the answer for you - Stop supporting Rovers. You'll feel so much happier.

[madmick50]

We can all pick and choose isolated statistics that 'prove' the point we are trying to make. My point about attempts on goal was a general one. Do you really believe that the teams at the top of leagues generally don't have  more attempts on goal than the teams at the bottom so this statistic is irrelevant? Unbelievable!

[madmick50]

It's not just that recently our attempts have been going down since we started playing superstar Diouf. It's that they are a third of the level of the teams just above us. If that is not cause for concern then I don't know what is.

[benaldo]

We can all pick and choose isolated statistics that 'prove' the point we are trying to make. My point about attempts on goal was a general one. Do you really believe that the teams at the top of leagues generally don't have  more attempts on goal than the teams at the bottom so this statistic is irrelevant? Unbelievable!

SO you pick a statistic to \"prove a point\" then I find a statistic after 30 seconds of looking that disproves your point and you say that!!!!!

Hahahahahaha please, don't ever leave this forum madmick50, I'd be lost without you as my straightman.  

[madmick50]

Do you really believe that the teams at the top of leagues generally don't have more attempts on goal than the teams at the bottom so this statistic is irrelevant?

Benaldo, so you are saying the above statement is untrue? Think before you reply because you are in danger of making yourself look very foolish.

[benaldo]

Do you really believe that the teams at the top of leagues generally don't have more attempts on goal than the teams at the bottom so this statistic is irrelevant?

Benaldo, so you are saying the above statement is untrue? Think before you reply because you are in danger of making yourself look very foolish.

At the risk of doing said thing, how about another stat, since you pin so much importance on them.

West Ham Shots on Goal in the past 2 games - 6

Are West Ham one of those \"Top teams\" you keep going on about? They are second aren't they?

:byebye

Oh dear madmick.....hahahahahaha,this is great. Keep going.

[drfcsteve]

Benaldo I thought you'd left the forum because you could never win an argument without changing the subject or resorting to insults?

[benaldo]

Nope. Sorry. :byebye

AndI don't see how I@m changing the subject here?!!! He comes out with a stat, I find some stats, that's called a debate. And if you think calling madmick50 a \"straightman\" is a real insult then you must be scared to go out of your house!

What people don't like is someone who doesn't share their view, me included. Thing is with me, I don't just roll over if I truely believe something. And, again, people don't like that either....which is tough titties.

Madmick50 said at the start of the thread something about Rovers only having 4 shots on goal in their last two games (which is true), he then went on to say that all good teams have many more shots on goal. I then presented him with Liverpools and West Hams last two matches stats of shots on goal. He didn't like the fact that those stats were as piss poor as Rovers. Not my fault, and hardly wrong is it?!

[Wild Rover]

Madmick,
Last 2 away games 4 on target chances. SOD last 2 away games 6 on target Chances. Last 2 away games 3 points, last 2 under SOD 0 points. do you prefer 6 chances and 0 points. I like points personally.

[dickos1]

It wasn't a general point Mick because you were isolating 2 games, one of which we won and scored 3 goals for the first time in 30 matches. That's why your making yourself look daft, because the arguemet your portraying just doesn't make any sense!

[madmick50]

It wasn't a general point Mick because you were isolating 2 games, one of which we won and scored 3 goals for the first time in 30 matches.

The reason I included the Ipswich game was to try to be as fair as possible as that game is the one that should weaken my argument the most! However it doesn't, it strengthens it. I would argue that we were lucky to have converted all our attempts on target into goals in that game. It only happens very rarely that a team only has 3 attempts on target, goes 3 nil up and then doesn't have 1 more attempt on target and ends up clinging onto a 3-2 win.

We can all pick and choose the odd statistic that can try to make the point we're trying to put across. I've attempted to show a trend that is very worrying. I would have expected by now that we would have been becoming more of a goal threat and not less of one. Saunders wasn't brought in to 'learn' on the job. He was brought in to turn it around immediately. The fact that we are only producing one third of the attempts on goal as the likes of Coventry show me that he is not doing a very good job.

Obviously there are other factors to throw into the equation such as lack of team spirit which just confirms the worsening situation we find ourselves in. The time to change course is now before it's too late.

[madmick50]

At the risk of doing said thing, how about another stat, since you pin so much importance on them.

West Ham Shots on Goal in the past 2 games - 6

Are West Ham one of those \"Top teams\" you keep going on about? They are second aren't they?

         

Oh dear madmick.....hahahahahaha,this is great. Keep going.

Sorry Benaldo, you've just shot yourself in the foot big time (again)! In the last 2 games West Ham have had 10 attempts on target and 15 off target making a total of 25 attempts on goal and not 6 as you say.

hahahahahahahahaha