Questions / solutions for life in Div One

[Norfolk N Chance]

Ok I am still pretty confident we can stop up, but we do need to talk about the \"R\" word!

How many of the playing squad would stop in league one?

Would players like Copps / stock stop as they are settled in the area and take pay cuts if needed or would they simply move to local championship clubs?

How many of the French guys would stop?

Surely if we kept the current lot together we would have an outstanding chance of going back up such is the massive gulf in class?

For example Sheff Weds and United woeful in championship are winning most weeks?

We are shortly taking more control of the stadium so why not wait to see what league we are in but sell the ST at basement prices to fill the stadium and maximize the potential through
stadium foods/ drink sells etc?

The experiment with McKay has been a great success, could we still use him as a contact for bargain basement players paying them little in wages to balance the books?

[The Red Baron]

I think you're absolutely right to raise this and I think those in charge at the club should be doing the same. Planning for what might happen in the event of relegation isn't defeatism, it is good business practice. After all, we were nearly faced with relegation at the end of last season, so we've had a good 12 months to be \"thinking the unthinkable.\"

[Norfolk N Chance]

I think you're absolutely right to raise this and I think those in charge at the club should be doing the same. Planning for what might happen in the event of relegation isn't defeatism, it is good business practice. After all, we were nearly faced with relegation at the end of last season, so we've had a good 12 months to be \"thinking the unthinkable.\"

JR seems to suggest its the end of the world? I dont think it would be !

If we were at the top of the league the crowds would flock (history proves this) especially if the max price was £15 for an adult!

People cant afford the premiership prices so that then you get the families watching encouraged through schools and the impressive community scheme, which the club have been \"world beaters\" at over the last few years!

In the meantime life continues in the top two divisions with clubs continuing to \"eat themselves\" i.e. Pompey style and we go back up in a far better position than we were fighting against the ever increasing tide, given our success outstripping the fan base!

Hope JR/ Gartom read this cos it wont and cant be the end of the world if we go down!

[MrFrost]

How do you come to the conclusion the McKay experiment has been a great success??

[stockyboy]

I'm still confident we can stay up but you're right to plan about relegation.

I think reducing ticket prices (season tickets and general tickets) could help pull the crowds in. I think the likes of Stock, Coppinger, O'Connor, Hird will stay. Not sure about the likes of Chimbonda and Diouf.

[DonnyNoel]

I think you're absolutely right to raise this and I think those in charge at the club should be doing the same. Planning for what might happen in the event of relegation isn't defeatism, it is good business practice. After all, we were nearly faced with relegation at the end of last season, so we've had a good 12 months to be \"thinking the unthinkable.\"

JR seems to suggest its the end of the world? I dont think it would be !

If we were at the top of the league the crowds would flock (history proves this) especially if the max price was £15 for an adult!

People cant afford the premiership prices so that then you get the families watching encouraged through schools and the impressive community scheme, which the club have been \"world beaters\" at over the last few years!

In the meantime life continues in the top two divisions with clubs continuing to \"eat themselves\" i.e. Pompey style and we go back up in a far better position than we were fighting against the ever increasing tide, given our success outstripping the fan base!

Hope JR/ Gartom read this cos it wont and cant be the end of the world if we go down!

I think before making a statement either way about revenues someone would have to produce stats showing the benefit of increased attendance revenue against the huge loss in TV revenue. I want to be as optimistic as you but I think we'd be in bother.

[MrFrost]

I think hoping for 15 quid tickets is optimistic. I'd be very surprised to see much reduction if we go down.

[The L J Monk]

A quick trawl of the net suggests:

The TV deal for 2011/12 for the Championship is £2.933 million, per club, per season.
The TV deal for 2012/13 for the Championship is £2.166 million, per club, per season.
Solidarity Payments for the Championship are on average £2.2 million, per club, per season.

The TV deal for League One for 2011/12 is £440,000, per club, per season.
The TV deal for League One for 2012/13 is £325,000, per club, per season.
Solidarity Payments for League One are on average £325,000 per club per season.

So, survival in the Championship would see a fall in income of 766k as the new TV deal kicks in.

However, relegation brings a fall in income of £2.68 million in TV revenue and around £1.85 million in Solidarity Payments. Roughly £4.5 million.

[FuzzyDuck]

Our T/O must be the lowest in the league with perhaps only Peterborough coming anywhere near rivaling it.  Simply due to that fact, it would not be very responsible of the management of the club to have not considered how to survive a relegation should it happen.

I just hope they have considered it.

[MrFrost]

A quick trawl of the net suggests:

The TV deal for 2011/12 for the Championship is £2.933 million, per club, per season.
The TV deal for 2012/13 for the Championship is £2.166 million, per club, per season.
Solidarity Payments for the Championship are on average £2.2 million, per club, per season.

The TV deal for League One for 2011/12 is £440,000, per club, per season.
The TV deal for League One for 2012/13 is £325,000, per club, per season.
Solidarity Payments for League One are on average £325,000 per club per season.

So, survival in the Championship would see a fall in income of 766k as the new TV deal kicks in.

However, relegation brings a fall in income of £2.68 million in TV revenue and around £1.85 million in Solidarity Payments. Roughly £4.5 million.

That is a massive concern. The loss of TV revenue will hit us hard, and I would imagine there would be some severe cost cutting if we do go down. Ticket sales will will decrease also, so another loss of revenue. Worrying.

[BigH]

To put this in some sort of context, the playing budget at a club like Tranmere in L1 (so that covers players, coaching staff, manager, physio) is around £1.5m a year.

If we were to be relegated, you would be looking at having to slash the playing budget from the current level of £7-8m to £1.5-2.5m.

This is what makes me laugh when people bleat on about the 'McKay project'. It is the reality to which we would have to adjust if we dropped down a division i.e. a core group of players supplemented by loanees. This year we have had the benefit of some very good loanees; Diouf, Beye, Ikeme, Button, Fortune. If we get relegated, we probably won't be so lucky.

So Willie's plan is a bit of a no-brainer really while JR tries to plan for the 'what if' scenario of going down.

[Wild Rover]

Stolen from another Forum. It supposes a lot, but it is what and why.


If DRFC charged EVERYONE ( No Concessions, No Special offers, No Kids prices ) an across the board £25 and the attendance for every game was 12K, the club would take in 6.9 million, That alone is 1.1 million below Salary level for everyone at DRFC.
That would be the amount the club would be allowed to use next season if as i say 12K of FULL paying supporters watched DRFC.
Now we both agree that 12K is more than DRFC can dream of getting through the gates, and approx 5K are season ticket holders, so wont pay anywhere near £25 per match.
JR on his own cant be expected to fund the shortfall, even when the big money men were on the Board it was costing each of them 1.5 million, so something needed to happen, especially as the manager wasnt up to the task of keeping DRFC in the championship.
What options were there. only 2 as i can see. 1. pay off most of the existing players ( fine..... say 12 players, each on 3K a week....so thats thick end of 2 million gone). Then recruit from lower leagues ( only problem is transfer window is shut..... so only options are \"LOANS\".
Now, DRFC can get as many as 5 for match day squad, each loan costs money ( do you know how much we paid for services of Lalcovic and Co. .. well let me hint at a figure.....more than anyones salary currently at DRFC ...... THATS EACH).

The \"Solution\" was the McKay plan, get them in short term for next to nothing in comparison to the \"Loan\" players we had.

Now you dont agree with it, but surely you cant be so silly as to not see DRFCwere unable to go any other way.

[The L J Monk]

The wage bill would fall from the £8m however, as that figure includes Sharp and everyone else who is on board for this season. Next season's squad looks like this at the moment:

GOALKEEPERS
Woods
Sullivan

DEFENDERS
Friend
O'Connor
Martis
Spurr

MIDFIELD
Bennett
Woods
Stock
Coppinger

STRIKERS
Brown

Plus possibly Beye and Diouf, depending on what their contracts are.

[monkeytennis]

I just think that DRFC cannot afford to be a Chamionship club anymore. As in any other business, if you stand still you actually go backwards as your competition improves.

The standard and cost of being in this division have increased faster than ticket sales and player quality at the club, leaving us where we are now.

The McKay experiment was a brave and partly successful act of desperation I feel, but it can only help when we are actally scoring points and not choking in the last few minutes of a match.

I wish I felt optimistic about life in L1, but even there the quality of football is improving all the time, it won't be the easy ride some assume it will be.

[DonnyNoel]

I just think that DRFC cannot afford to be a Chamionship club anymore. As in any other business, if you stand still you actually go backwards as your competition improves.

The standard and cost of being in this division have increased faster than ticket sales and player quality at the club, leaving us where we are now.

The McKay experiment was a brave and partly successful act of desperation I feel, but it can only help when we are actally scoring points and not choking in the last few minutes of a match.

I wish I felt optimistic about life in L1, but even there the quality of football is improving all the time, it won't be the easy ride some assume it will be.

There's plenty of clubs spending beyond their means though (an article in the Guardian yesterday suggests 30% of clubs are paying more than their total turnover in wages) so if everyone played fair, or spent fair, then who knows where we'd be. Wages in football have been been sickenly recession proof over the last few years. I'd say there isn't much difference in quality between the squad we have now and the squad we came up with but depending what source you read we're paying £1.5m - £2.5 p/a more in wages.

[Wild Rover]

Not sure who is \"Out of contract\" this year, but thought Martin Woods was, and i See no Hayter ( maybe he is out of contract ).

However.....

If you assume DRFC need a minimal squad of 20 and each player is on no more than 4K a week ( and at least 4 you mention are in excess of that ), then thats still 4.16 million, add in lease / rent for ground, and of course coaching staff, medical staff, and all office staff etc, its approaching 5 million.
That means if everyone paid £25 crowds of consistant 9K required, because of differential in income ( season tickets, Concesssions etc ) , i would estimate 13K crowds up to capacity would be required to maintain equilibrium of cash in / cash out. ( this only applies in Championship of course ). It gets worse in L1 and 2 as only 50 - 55% of take can be used .

[I-was-there1976]

Stevenage FC are doing fantastically well on smallish crowds. They have a forward thinking chairman and probably a great business plan.

Something to copy ?

[The L J Monk]

Not sure who is \"Out of contract\" this year, but thought Martin Woods was, and i See no Hayter ( maybe he is out of contract )

Woods is contracted until Summer 2013

Hayter is contracted until Summer 2012

[MrFrost]

If we go down, I dare say the average attendance would be no more than 6000, possibly less if we are struggling.
I could see the club saving money by closing the South Stand as it has done for cup games this season.

I dare say, those out of contract in the summer won't be renewed in order to bring down the wage bill, and those left will be added to by youth players and a few cheap loan signings.

We need some fresh financial backing on the board, that is the only solution I see, because even with my points above, we would still have a significant financial shortfall which I don't think JR can keep covering.

[wilts rover]

Whichever division we will be playing in next season, the squad is not good enough and anyone who thinks it is are kidding themselves. We dont have a range of attacking options, we are very weak defensively, particuarly within any midfield options we have, our 'best players' are getting past their sell by date and are injury prone are there is very little strength or speed. We need 6 or 7 good quality Championship (or League 1) players. The problem I see is not holding on to the current squad - but shipping them out! And finding replacements we can afford.

[dickos1]

We need to get rid of a lot of players in the summer, either released or sold. I'd keep
Woods, hird, o Connor, spurr, stock, gillet, woods,  brown, Bennett, the rest aren't good enough. If we stay up then obviously bêye, diouf, chimbonda.
I certainly would trust Saunders with recruitment, the players he's brought in have in the main been very good signings.
Either way, next season I think will be a promotion chasing season whichever division were in. Something to look forward to.

[Donnybax]

We need to get rid of a lot of players in the summer, either released or sold. I'd keep
Woods, hird, o Connor, spurr, stock, gillet, woods,  brown, Bennett, the rest aren't good enough. If we stay up then obviously bêye, diouf, chimbonda.
I certainly would trust Saunders with recruitment, the players he's brought in have in the main been very good signings.
Either way, next season I think will be a promotion chasing season whichever division were in. Something to look forward to.

I'd definatley be keeping coppinger.

[dickos1]

I knew I'd miss someone. Think we,ll struggle to keep him though if we go down.

[Donnybax]

Yeah I think we will struggle to keep copps and stock but I think they both love it here. Copps isn't far off a testimonial and stock looked gutted yesterday and is a true captain for us

[Mr1Croft]

I personally think there is only Diouf and perhaps Hird and Bennet (due to their age and progress) who could walk into another Championship club if we went down. Palace may come back for Dumbuya also.

If we go down it is simply because the current group of players couldn't cope with a relegation fight. Only teams coming up would have a look in, especially if small teams such as Stevenage get promoted.

Coppinger is well past it and I can only see him leaving if we release him, I don't think clubs would be queing up for him from the Championship...

[Norfolk N Chance]

I personally think there is only Diouf and perhaps Hird and Bennet (due to their age and progress) who could walk into another Championship club if we went down. Palace may come back for Dumbuya also.

If we go down it is simply because the current group of players couldn't cope with a relegation fight. Only teams coming up would have a look in, especially if small teams such as Stevenage get promoted.

Coppinger is well past it and I can only see him leaving if we release him, I don't think clubs would be queing up for him from the Championship...

Good enough for Championship (contracted players);-
Spurr

M Woods
Stock
Beye
Hird
Chimboda
Copps
Diouf

Good enough for Div 1
All of above
Oster
Brown
Mussey
Bennet
JOC
Locky
Barnes
Baxendale
Chambers
Martis

The rest inc all contracted Keepers not good enough

[MrFrost]

We need to get rid of a lot of players in the summer, either released or sold. I'd keep
Woods, hird, o Connor, spurr, stock, gillet, woods,  brown, Bennett, the rest aren't good enough. If we stay up then obviously bêye, diouf, chimbonda.
I certainly would trust Saunders with recruitment, the players he's brought in have in the main been very good signings.
Either way, next season I think will be a promotion chasing season whichever division were in. Something to look forward to.

I'd love some of whatever you are smoking.

[dickos1]

I think it wil be. I'm allowed an opinion aren't I? Everybody who's negative is allowed one, so I'll have a positive opinion. Ta

[donnyroversfc]

Did someone on this thread really say McKay's plan as been a success?

We are BOTTOM of the league. McKays 'plan' was to keep us up this season and promotion/play-offs next season (his words).

John Ryan also said that if we were relegated this seasons the McKay plan was over. i EXPECT that to be the case!

[Mr1Croft]

I personally think there is only Diouf and perhaps Hird and Bennet (due to their age and progress) who could walk into another Championship club if we went down. Palace may come back for Dumbuya also.

If we go down it is simply because the current group of players couldn't cope with a relegation fight. Only teams coming up would have a look in, especially if small teams such as Stevenage get promoted.

Coppinger is well past it and I can only see him leaving if we release him, I don't think clubs would be queing up for him from the Championship...

Good enough for Championship (contracted players);-
Spurr

M Woods
Stock
Beye
Hird
Chimboda
Copps
Diouf

Good enough for Div 1
All of above
Oster
Brown
Mussey
Bennet
JOC
Locky
Barnes
Baxendale
Chambers
Martis

The rest inc all contracted Keepers not good enough

But how many of our contracted Championship players (apart from the 3 I mentioned) have done enough this season to be sold? And if so I can't see them bidding much either, we rejected just short of 300k for Copps last year, I can't see anyone paying over 150k for him in the summer unless he springs into life between now and the end of the season...