The VSC "Only" Forum

[RoversAlias]

Just a query. Why has the VSC Matters section of this froum now been hidden from the view of all non-members? Before, if I had a question relating to the VSC I knew where I could ask it (and have done in the past) whereas now I do not? Seems a bit counter productive to me and only adds to the feeling of the 'closed shop'.

[Filo]

To my knowledge, the VSC matters section has been replaced with the VSC member section, non members should be allowed to view the members area but do not have posting privileges in there, non members can still post in the open forum if they have a query, like you have done here, there`s no closed shop as non members can still view whats being discussed

[jucyberry]

As far as I can tell it is only visable if you are logged in.. You can't see it other wise....

A but like the scene in the Mummy when O'connell first took Evie to Hamanuptra...............

[RoversAlias]

To my knowledge, the VSC matters section has been replaced with the VSC member section, non members should be allowed to view the members area but do not have posting privileges in there, non members can still post in the open forum if they have a query, like you have done here, there`s no closed shop as non members can still view whats being discussed

To my knowledge, the VSC matters section has been replaced with the VSC member section, non members should be allowed to view the members area but do not have posting privileges in there, non members can still post in the open forum if they have a query, like you have done here, there`s no closed shop as non members can still view whats being discussed

Thanks for the response Filo. Genuinely I cannot view said forum despite being logged in, so naturally I assume it has become a hidden, exclusive area.

[MartinB]

yeah same for me, and no I don't think its a conspiracy or closed door club. more like seething problems with the new site

[Mr1Croft]

We resurrected the Members Only sub-forum from the old site so the description that tells members everyone can view it. But to my knowledge it was agreed by the moderation team to close this off from the public so that guests or non-vsc members can't even read it. I could be wrong here though...

[Filo]

This part o the moderation team was n't aware of that, I think you're confusing Directors and admin with moderators!

[Sheepskin Stu]

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

So does that mean the VSC now only represents its fully paid up members?  It was things like this that led to me not paying my subcsription this year, too much focus on those who pay when IMO it should be about all fans whether paid up or not.  We now have a section of a fans forum that only select fans can choose to see.

I understand that the VSC wants more members, but that to me will just push people away even more.  But if that's what people wish to do that is fine really, just don't complain when more feel they just don't want to be part of it.

[bobjimwilly]

Just a query. Why has the VSC Matters section of this froum now been hidden from the view of all non-members? Before, if I had a question relating to the VSC I knew where I could ask it (and have done in the past) whereas now I do not? Seems a bit counter productive to me and only adds to the feeling of the 'closed shop'.

My fault - set wrong permissions! Should be showing again now.

To clarify, the VSC Members Only section is indeed hidden from all non-members now, so in future we can post things that only concern members, organise member polls, take votes etc.

[bobjimwilly]

So does that mean the VSC now only represents its fully paid up members?  It was things like this that led to me not paying my subcsription this year, too much focus on those who pay when IMO it should be about all fans whether paid up or not.  We now have a section of a fans forum that only select fans can choose to see.

I understand that the VSC wants more members, but that to me will just push people away even more.  But if that's what people wish to do that is fine really, just don't complain when more feel they just don't want to be part of it.

The VSC represents all fans and gauges what DRFC supporters want through its members. Those "select" fans are simply people who have paid their membership subs.

The power of any co-operative is always subsidised by its members. The VSC has and never will ignore opinions of any supporters or the general consensus, but the core of its support is gained from the power and number of its members. The Model Rules also state that votes will only be accepted from trust members.

[bobjimwilly]

I've started a poll in the VSC Members section to ask the members what they think. If it's decided by majority to make the section viewable by all registered forum users again, we'll do so (if I can find the setting in admin!)

 

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

BJW I see what you're saying fella.  I just have some real questions of the VSC at the moment.  I seem to keep hearing about what money people can give, but where does that go (on a box?).  I'm not even sure what the VSC wants to do these days and that message just doesn't seem to get out.  I'm not poor, I could easily have afforded to pay my subs, but I don't like the idea of a financially motivated VSC.  I'm struggling to see what the incentives of the group are.  Don't get me wrong if I can see where it's heading my subs will certainly be paid once again, but my view is that it shouldn't matter that subs are paid, in fact I'd even argue it should be a group that any monetary donation is voluntary rather than seen as a benefit.

[bobjimwilly]

The cost of subs is actually on cards at the next board meeting. Hopefully we can agree to lower the cost of membership to make it an easier option for people to sign up and renew. The maintenance of the website and costs of organising future events will require some funds, but as I said hopefully we can afford to lower the cost of membership.

On a personal note, I hope to meet you and many other regular posters on the forum at the first "VSC Forum" (working title!) we will be organising over the next few weeks. Details to follow shortly.

[Mr1Croft]

Fundamentally subs are going towards gaining a bigger share in DRFC. So in effect its a win win, the club (or the directors  of the club depending how you look at it) get your money and we the fans get a bigger ownership of our club.
 
As we all know JR cannot go on as Chairman forever, and we have seen how much difference having a club owned by a fan can be. The only way of ensuring the club stays in the right hands is by helping the VSC raise its funds. I wasn't on the VSC board when the boxes were bought so all I can say is I imagine the VSC Board wanted to repay its members who fork out every year to keep the VSC going. Would the members rather see their money spent on shares, a community project or sponsoring a local Sunday team? Well if our members don't tell us we can only assume.

[Sheepskin Stu]

Fundamentally subs are going towards gaining a bigger share in DRFC. So in effect its a win win, the club (or the directors  of the club depending how you look at it) get your money and we the fans get a bigger ownership of our club.
 
As we all know JR cannot go on as Chairman forever, and we have seen how much difference having a club owned by a fan can be. The only way of ensuring the club stays in the right hands is by helping the VSC raise its funds. I wasn't on the VSC board when the boxes were bought so all I can say is I imagine the VSC Board wanted to repay its members who fork out every year to keep the VSC going. Would the members rather see their money spent on shares, a community project or sponsoring a local Sunday team? Well if our members don't tell us we can only assume.

John Ryan "only" owns 33% of the club now. The VSC didn't really have much of a say when he brought in Dick and Terry did they? It doesn't have a seat on the board anymore either. The VSC needs to harness the power that fans have. If people didn't attend matches then the club wouldn't exist.

[Donnylass]

Fundamentally subs are going towards gaining a bigger share in DRFC. So in effect its a win win, the club (or the directors  of the club depending how you look at it) get your money and we the fans get a bigger ownership of our club.
 
As we all know JR cannot go on as Chairman forever, and we have seen how much difference having a club owned by a fan can be. The only way of ensuring the club stays in the right hands is by helping the VSC raise its funds. I wasn't on the VSC board when the boxes were bought so all I can say is I imagine the VSC Board wanted to repay its members who fork out every year to keep the VSC going. Would the members rather see their money spent on shares, a community project or sponsoring a local Sunday team? Well if our members don't tell us we can only assume.

I'm sure the boxes are rented out again, at a good rate if you are a VSC member, so they make some of the money spent on them back again. If it's still available I will be treating myself to a visit for my birthday in August.
I feel proud knowing I've got shares in the club I support. All this for a small amount each year.

[RobTheRover]

I feel proud knowing I've got shares in the club I support. All this for a small amount each year.

Thats a great way to look at it, Donnylass.   Who really owns football clubs is a topic coming under increasing scrutiny at present, and through organisations like the VSC my unequivocal answer is "the supporters".

[Barmby Rover]

The simple truth is that if you are amember you get to decide the rules of the club, if you don't pay then it is simply nothing to do with you.

[Mr1Croft]

Fundamentally subs are going towards gaining a bigger share in DRFC. So in effect its a win win, the club (or the directors  of the club depending how you look at it) get your money and we the fans get a bigger ownership of our club.
 
As we all know JR cannot go on as Chairman forever, and we have seen how much difference having a club owned by a fan can be. The only way of ensuring the club stays in the right hands is by helping the VSC raise its funds. I wasn't on the VSC board when the boxes were bought so all I can say is I imagine the VSC Board wanted to repay its members who fork out every year to keep the VSC going. Would the members rather see their money spent on shares, a community project or sponsoring a local Sunday team? Well if our members don't tell us we can only assume.

John Ryan "only" owns 33% of the club now. The VSC didn't really have much of a say when he brought in Dick and Terry did they? It doesn't have a seat on the board anymore either. The VSC needs to harness the power that fans have. If people didn't attend matches then the club wouldn't exist.

Correct but if the VSC had more members which means more shares at the time it could have been different.
 
We don't ignore any fans, however this forum is provided for by the VSC Members and if they want a private section in their own website that hosts the forum who are we to deny them that right? The VSC exists "for the fans, by the fans," if you remember our old slogan and if every ST Holder (around 5k) was a member of the VSC there is a good chance we would be well on our way to being a majority shareholder (if that is what the VSC members mwanted).

[Bentley Bullet]

With respect I'm not so sure it would be wise for some of the barm pots on here to have any influence on the clubs direction.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I'm struggling to see what the incentives of the group are.  Don't get me wrong if I can see where it's heading my subs will certainly be paid once again,

See the current Aims and Objectives. The VSC board needs fans and members to help shape it's aims and objectives moving forward, as no doubt some things will change if the fans wish it. But it's only right that the members vote to provide the mandate for the VSC board to act on.

[silent majority]

I'm struggling to see what the incentives of the group are.  Don't get me wrong if I can see where it's heading my subs will certainly be paid once again,

See the current Aims and Objectives. The VSC board needs fans and members to help shape it's aims and objectives moving forward, as no doubt some things will change if the fans wish it. But it's only right that the members vote to provide the mandate for the VSC board to act on.

Baz is so right! We can only act on what our members tell us they want and need, within reason!

But over the course of the next few weeks you will start to see signs of some more projects we have been working on with the club, but it takes time effort and money to do all of these things. The club do listen, they do pay attention, but we need members, shares and influence to do this, without it we're just another crazy bunch of supporters who demand attention.

[Dr Fundlekrotch]

Fundamentally subs are going towards gaining a bigger share in DRFC. So in effect its a win win, the club (or the directors  of the club depending how you look at it) get your money and we the fans get a bigger ownership of our club.
 
As we all know JR cannot go on as Chairman forever, and we have seen how much difference having a club owned by a fan can be. The only way of ensuring the club stays in the right hands is by helping the VSC raise its funds. I wasn't on the VSC board when the boxes were bought so all I can say is I imagine the VSC Board wanted to repay its members who fork out every year to keep the VSC going. Would the members rather see their money spent on shares, a community project or sponsoring a local Sunday team? Well if our members don't tell us we can only assume.

John Ryan "only" owns 33% of the club now. The VSC didn't really have much of a say when he brought in Dick and Terry did they? It doesn't have a seat on the board anymore either. The VSC needs to harness the power that fans have. If people didn't attend matches then the club wouldn't exist.

It isn't so long ago that the VSC was the second biggest shareholder in the club.  After the 'Coin Trail', we had about £120,000 of shares and the qualification for directors back then was a £50,000 input.  The VSC served a specific purpose at that time.  Although it's role is temporarily changed whilst things go well, we could very quickly be back to that situation.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

The simple truth is that if you are amember you get to decide the rules of the club, if you don't pay then it is simply nothing to do with you.

And that's what I'm trying to figure out.  If it's a club that wants simply nothing to do with people who don't pay then I'd have no interest in being involved at all.  For me it should be about listening to the views of all supporters be they those who choose to provide cash and those that do not.

[RobTheRover]

I think you are missing the point, BFYP.  We would love all supporters to be members of their club's supporters trust, but realise there are barriers for some people which is why we DO NOT ignore the views of non-members on club related matters, but we reserve the right to ignore them on VSC related matters.  The VSC membership alone has the right to be able to have their say on how the trust operates, I'm sure you'll agree.  You wouldnt walk into any other organisation where membership was an option and demand the same rights as a member, and this is no different.

We will, however, try to address the barriers to joining as best we can to grow the membership so we can truly be representative of the fans from within the trust, so I will start a thread where non-members can tell us why they choose not to join, which I hope will be useful in shaping our further membership drives.

The Members Only board, as it stands, is for trust matters.  By definition, any users of the forum (and remember we provide the Viking Chat, Lucky Pint, and Rumour Mill boards for the use of ALL rovers fans, whether VSC members or not) who choose not to become members can not be interested in those matters or they would have made an attempt to join the trust, do you not agree?

In some regard, thats a bit of a devils advocate statement, I know, but the fact remains in this "connected" world we live in we should use the facilities at our disposal to better conduct our member business too.  It's certainly not meant to be elitist.

[hoolahoop]

The simple truth is that if you are amember you get to decide the rules of the club, if you don't pay then it is simply nothing to do with you.

And that's what I'm trying to figure out.  If it's a club that wants simply nothing to do with people who don't pay then I'd have no interest in being involved at all.  For me it should be about listening to the views of all supporters be they those who choose to provide cash and those that do not.

Bfyp I can well understand your qualms for not renewing this year as I didn't. However from talking to individuals who are now shaking the VSC back into a proper 'Trust' organisation and dispensing with some of the peripheral crap i.e the VSC box, the Lone Star striker appeal etc........I think you like me will soon agree that it's once again being steered in the right direction.
It's a ''Trust'' for the fans to ensure that our club will be sustained into the future with happy contented supporters who once again feel as if they have an input into their own matchday experience and a healthy club for our children's children.
You are correct up until recently that was not the perceived image of the VSC, hopefully it will soon be back on track for you, me and many other dissidents to join up once again.

[jucyberry]

I wouldnt call the VSC box 'crap' , I thought it was a great idea.. I loved watching to see if anyone i knew had won the chance to expeience the whole box experience...
Likewise the appeals, they wern't so much to rake in copious ammounts of cash, but were a way of bringing the fans together..No one with any sense would ever believe enough could be raised to buy a striker ect, but as a movement it was a great way of making the people feel as tho they were helping.

How can that ever be a bad thing?

[A9]

I wouldnt call the VSC box 'crap' , I thought it was a great idea.. I loved watching to see if anyone i knew had won the chance to expeience the whole box experience...
Likewise the appeals, they wern't so much to rake in copious ammounts of cash, but were a way of bringing the fans together..No one with any sense would ever believe enough could be raised to buy a striker ect, but as a movement it was a great way of making the people feel as tho they were helping.

How can that ever be a bad thing?

 Unless DRFC gave the VSC the boxes free of charge then there's little chance it was a fundraiser. It might be a nice day out, but that's not what a Trust is for. They were always having to push them on here, clearly struggling to sell the places.

People don't buy in to the VSC so that they might win a place in a box for a match and I bet a high % of those are ST holders anyway. They hold, what 10 people?

It was a daft decision, the cons (financial output) massively outweighed the pros. Be interesting to see what's disclosed in the accounts.

For me (a lapsed member), they lost me when they kept mentioning about merging the VSC with the Supporters Club. The then people in charge didn't seem to grasp that a Trust is nothing like a Supporter Club. Supporters Clubs are there to run coaches, hold fundraisers, arrange events etc. I think the Loan Star appeal would have been better under their banner.

A Trust is there to look at the long term future for the Club it is attached to. It works with a Supporters Club (and the Club). It supports projects, liaises with fans and tries to grow so that it can have a voice on the Board that is heard.

From the noises coming out of the VSC now, I think its heading it a vastly better direction than ever before (not that I'm saying previous people didn't work hard - just not in the direction I'd have expected).

[Mr1Croft]

I wouldnt call the VSC box 'crap' , I thought it was a great idea.. I loved watching to see if anyone i knew had won the chance to expeience the whole box experience...
Likewise the appeals, they wern't so much to rake in copious ammounts of cash, but were a way of bringing the fans together..No one with any sense would ever believe enough could be raised to buy a striker ect, but as a movement it was a great way of making the people feel as tho they were helping.

How can that ever be a bad thing?

 Unless DRFC gave the VSC the boxes free of charge then there's little chance it was a fundraiser. It might be a nice day out, but that's not what a Trust is for. They were always having to push them on here, clearly struggling to sell the places.

People don't buy in to the VSC so that they might win a place in a box for a match and I bet a high % of those are ST holders anyway. They hold, what 10 people?

It was a daft decision, the cons (financial output) massively outweighed the pros. Be interesting to see what's disclosed in the accounts.

For me (a lapsed member), they lost me when they kept mentioning about merging the VSC with the Supporters Club. The then people in charge didn't seem to grasp that a Trust is nothing like a Supporter Club. Supporters Clubs are there to run coaches, hold fundraisers, arrange events etc. I think the Loan Star appeal would have been better under their banner.

A Trust is there to look at the long term future for the Club it is attached to. It works with a Supporters Club (and the Club). It supports projects, liaises with fans and tries to grow so that it can have a voice on the Board that is heard.

From the noises coming out of the VSC now, I think its heading it a vastly better direction than ever before (not that I'm saying previous people didn't work hard - just not in the direction I'd have expected).

Other clubs such as Reading have combined both the Supporters Club and Trust, they still use the name STAR (Supporters Trust At Reading) but by taking on the tasks of a Supporters Club one advantage is it increases the appeal to join (for reductions on away travel etc.,). Combining with the SC wouldn't be a bad thing if we had the resources to carry out what they do without jeopardizing our priorities.