An interesting consequence...

[Mr1Croft]

I think I'm ready to share my thoughts on the whole thing, but be warned this is just a load of my ideas on the subject squashed into a single post and is not coherent. Where to begin...


I think a good starting point would be the Palace game, the first time I sat down during the first half and when looking at Dean Saunders, I couldn't care less in all honesty, my feelings were still raw and only 24 hours old, this man could have won the Champions League with Woking for all I cared, the only thing running through my mind was that he wasn't Sean O'Driscoll, maybe that was me putting my personal feelings above the club but I wouldn't call it an agenda.


It took everyone by surprise, I think even those calling for his head were slightly surprised when he'd gone given the circumstances, and people were asking why was he so suddenly replaced? Would it have not been easier to take a week or so to find a replacement and not just offer it to the first guy? We were also being linked the Chimbonda and Diouf, signings that were ordinarily way out of our price range and there was even talk that McKay was buying shares in the club, when it turned out that wasn't true we obviously all heard that he was however heavily involved in the background and it looked like that perhaps he was the answer to many questions we had.


The only thing I struggled to get my head round - and still do - is how so many people (even Steve Claridge) predicted how it would end, but this kind of talk didn't make them true Rovers fans in some people's eyes: That was what caused the split in my eyes. It reached a point where Rovers fans would rather try to silence their own kind under some illusion that if the 'negative' talk continued then chaos would descend rather than taking on board the views and concerns that other people had. This, all on a forum provided by the VSC, pick up a programme from 2006 and before and chances are it will say on the front "Provided by the Viking Supporters Co-perative" with a slogan "By the fans, For the fans".  Yet here we were where the forum, which was most people's first choice to get out their thoughts was descending into an environment where only positive posts were appreciated, and anything otherwise was branded as 'drivel' and not from someone 'loyal', this wasn't by the VSC in particular but mainly the forum users.


I cannot stand all this talk of "the club would be better off without fans like you", and this is from the same people who complain about our attendances and how poorly supported we are in the Doncaster area, so let me get this straight: You think we need to be better supported, but you are telling the fans that are left that they should support someone else because they have strong views on the subject? There is something in my mind that is telling me that is somewhat counter-productive. I can't imagine what state the club would be in if all of the fans who have said anything negative said "okay then, we'll not come anymore".


Right, I am probably coming across as a little negative myself here, which wasn't and is not the point of my post. I wasn't against Saunders 100%, his appointment grew on me, and while I can't say I am still 100% happy with what happened last season I am at least more comfortable and my emotions have somewhat faded, I am more accepting. Looking back now perhaps sacking SOD was the right decision, we will of course never know. Saunders has shown glimpses of things to come and I hope he does turn out well, I would never wish Doncaster Rovers to fail.


That is the one thing that connects every single user on this forum, our love for the Rovers. That is what some people sometimes forget on this forum IMO, we are all saying what we are (whether positive or negative) because we ARE Rovers fans. If we didn't care for the club why would be here, wasting hours writing out our thoughts? Why does someone have to have a personal agenda because they don't agree 100% with what happened? Did I start jumping around at the full whistle after the Pompey game? No, of course not, it hurt me, not like 98 but it was still there as a low point in the short while I have supported the Rovers.


There is one thing that I have to say however, and that is I don't think anyone is going to change their mind based on what they read on here, and yet the debates continue over and over and over. I don't think Wellred is going to stand up and say "I was wrong, we should re-instate SOD" and I don't expect Bob G to post a reply about accepted his has "misguided thoughts". Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and we should respect that on this forum without branding each other unloyal. We currently need what fanbase there is left to come together for the good of the club. Yes relationships with the club may be damaged slightly but the club has accepted this and that is what makes the "In Rovers We Trust" even more important, now more than ever. So instead of bickering amongst one another, attacking the club or the fans we each need to accept what has happened, what has been said and learn from the expereince and move together into a new era.


In Rovers We Trust!!! 

[dickos1]

When will people get over sod??? Jesus Christ!
Yes he was a very good manager but he left almost a year ago, yet people like bob and Chris still talk about him on a daily basis.
FFs move on, he's gone,
If Saunders left tomorrow they'd still not be happy with whoever takes over, pathetic.
One point, Saunders did have the final decision on players, but he had a choice of f all so it's hardly the same as buying his own players is it.
Just support the club and see what he does, the behaviour of some of you is ridiculous and is far far from the behaviour of a football supporter,,

[Chris]

When will people get over sod??? Jesus Christ!
Yes he was a very good manager but he left almost a year ago, yet people like bob and Chris still talk about him on a daily basis.
FFs move on, he's gone,
If Saunders left tomorrow they'd still not be happy with whoever takes over, pathetic.
One point, Saunders did have the final decision on players, but he had a choice of f all so it's hardly the same as buying his own players is it.
Just support the club and see what he does, the behaviour of some of you is ridiculous and is far far from the behaviour of a football supporter,,

I'd actually be delighted if Saunders went tomorrow. Never mind.

[Mr1Croft]

When will people get over sod??? Jesus Christ!
Yes he was a very good manager but he left almost a year ago, yet people like bob and Chris still talk about him on a daily basis.
FFs move on, he's gone,
If Saunders left tomorrow they'd still not be happy with whoever takes over, pathetic.
One point, Saunders did have the final decision on players, but he had a choice of f all so it's hardly the same as buying his own players is it.
Just support the club and see what he does, the behaviour of some of you is ridiculous and is far far from the behaviour of a football supporter,,

Well Dickos I doubt anytime soon, I was at Stamford Bridge in Di Matteo's first game in charge (I am usually an armchair Chelsea fan but decided to go to this game) and despite it being over 5 years, 5 trophies and the 6 different manager since Mourinhio left over 40'000 were on their feet when they were singing "Bring back the Special One." Sometimes you just cant rewrite history, and for Chelsea living in their past managers shadow has kept them spurring on and it has taken a Champions League victory to shake off that image.

[Wellred]

Time to admit defeat. I'm afraid you are on your own Dickos. As far as I am concerned the lunatics really have taken over the asylum.
It's time to consign this forum to the bin for me.
It's been fun but some people seem to want to remain buried in the past.
Goodbye all.

[Rios]

The only thing I struggled to get my head round - and still do - is how so many people (even Steve Claridge) predicted how it would end, but this kind of talk didn't make them true Rovers fans in some people's eyes: That was what caused the split in my eyes. It reached a point where Rovers fans would rather try to silence their own kind under some illusion that if the 'negative' talk continued then chaos would descend rather than taking on board the views and concerns that other people had. This, all on a forum provided by the VSC, pick up a programme from 2006 and before and chances are it will say on the front "Provided by the Viking Supporters Co-perative" with a slogan "By the fans, For the fans".  Yet here we were where the forum, which was most people's first choice to get out their thoughts was descending into an environment where only positive posts were appreciated, and anything otherwise was branded as 'drivel' and not from someone 'loyal', this wasn't by the VSC in particular but mainly the forum users.

Whilst I wholeheartedly agree with the above paragraph, I'm sure VivaRovers (which is sadly missed by all those that read it) wouldn't with the part in bold.  The whole positive or be damned ethos still echo's on here and if anything makes me want to be negative just to stick two fingers up to those who wish to force their thoughts and will on others regardless of whether it's in the clubs best interests.  I get the feeling that some of you would have been whole hearted advocates of a certain Mr K Richardson during the 95/96 season before it all kicked off properly and people were calling for him to be backed.  Oh and before you jump on it, that's not me comparing JR with him in any way whatsoever!

After 9 pages and lot's of drivel from the usual suspects, Bob's original post still stands.  The heartless way that Sod was removed and the swiftness with which Saunders was brought in left a bad after taste that is still there today and for some means he will never be accepted.  For others their dislike of Sod, combined with being proved incorrect about an experiment which they used to lambast others has meant that the two sides are still bad mouthing each other.  Those at the polar ends of the argument (head in sand optimists or harking back to a rose tinted past that didn't really exist) are both wrong and should really sit back and consider whether their constant bickering is helpful in both supporting the club and taking us into the future.

[dickos1]

The thing is, sod was a great manager the best we've ever had in my opinion, I was absolutely gutted when we sacked him. Couldn't understand it, thought we would never get over him going.
But none of that is Saunders fault he just accepted a job, and it just baffles me how certain people have been on his back since day one, never given him a chance.
For me, he is our manager and deserves support from us way way longer than 30 odd games, just like sod did when people were on his back constantly, he got given time and things improved.
Saunders has probably the hardest job in the country at the minute and if he went someone else would have the hardest job in England but the same people wouldn't be giving him the chance either.
It is terrible support for our manager And I'm just glad jr sees through it all just like he did with sod.

[Bentley Bullet]

I am sure Doncaster Rovers would be much better off without you. What a sanctimonious prat you really are.

With folk of your stunning intellectual incapacity there's not many other ways to speak tbh. That comment displays not only your inherent inability to think but also your total ignorance of just what I represent. And what I've done. And that's a damn sight more than you've ever done for the Rovers you silly, pathetic man.

BobG

PS And doesn't this graphically display, absolutely, the whole point of this thread? As I said before, QED.
[/quote]

I think many of us are being very selfish in our views. What about Bobg’s life? He may choose to stay, fair enough, but he is getting older. He cannot make things happen like he once could, his disciples are diminishing. He could easily be turning into a bad tempered bloke. He has achieved a lot in the past, he can’t repeat it because his reputation can only go one way now.

We should be thinking about Bobg’s welfare now. We owe him that. Sod the Rovers. People are way, way more important than any institution.

Cheers

Bentley Bullet

[donnybel]

Can I just throw something else in the mix for a moment.  How many clubs that have power battles in the boardroom are successful clubs??  In my opinion all the crap and falling out will continue until what is going on in the upper reaches of this club get sorted.  Look at the facts:
SOD stays
SOD goes
The experiment starts
Members of the board leave
We get relegated
The experiment finishes?
Members of the board return.

It doesn't matter whose managing the club, the bloody boardroom needs to get it's act together and pull in one direction and then we'll all be able to do the same!!

[steve@dcfd]

It easy to blame Dean whether it is fault or not. He was part of the system that was not successful. The decision to sack Sean and appoint Dean in less than twelve hours and change the direction of the club was made by the board. Who on the board was forced to do what we will never know. But as donnybel says it is the board who made the decisions that some supporters did not agree with. Blaming Dean is easy because his style of football is different and we got relegated, but he worked with what he had. We probably would have been relegated with Sean manager so it not all the managers fault. Therefore JR and the board should be ones who put things right. The forum for the future should be the place where they tell the supporters the reality of the clubs position. JR and the board will not accept their responsibility, but to move on we need to hear what strategy they believe we need to progress again and in what time frame. It not all about the ground, the amenities, but what we are going to produce on the pitch. We must be winning games at home to start to attract the supporters back. Therefore please let us hear realism not bravado.

[hoolahoop]

Can I just throw something else in the mix for a moment.  How many clubs that have power battles in the boardroom are successful clubs??  In my opinion all the crap and falling out will continue until what is going on in the upper reaches of this club get sorted.  Look at the facts:
SOD stays
SOD goes
The experiment starts
Members of the board leave
We get relegated
The experiment finishes?
Members of the board return.

It doesn't matter whose managing the club, the bloody boardroom needs to get it's act together and pull in one direction and then we'll all be able to do the same!!

I could be wrong but I understand there's little left of the Board now!!

[Norfolk N Chance]

Can I just throw something else in the mix for a moment.  How many clubs that have power battles in the boardroom are successful clubs??  In my opinion all the crap and falling out will continue until what is going on in the upper reaches of this club get sorted.  Look at the facts:
SOD stays
SOD goes
The experiment starts
Members of the board leave
We get relegated
The experiment finishes?
Members of the board return.

It doesn't matter whose managing the club, the bloody boardroom needs to get it's act together and pull in one direction and then we'll all be able to do the same!!

I could be wrong but I understand there's little left of the Board now!!

Worst kept secret km2 are back

[BobG]

Extremely sensible post Mr Croft. Can't argue with any of that. Nor Rios's either.

I suppose the bottom line, for me, is that I am soooo bloody disappointed with the strife in the boardroom, the abandoning of the values we used to have and the way things were done. It's taken away the belief, the pride, the passion I used to have. And that hurts. A lot. Just once, in 50 years, we had a club we could all be proud of. But we abandoned everything that gave us that pride.

It would have been so easy to have got rid of SOD in a civilised manner.

BobG

[Norfolk N Chance]

Extremely sensible post Mr Croft. Can't argue with any of that. Nor Rios's either.

I suppose the bottom line, for me, is that I am soooo bloody disappointed with the strife in the boardroom, the abandoning of the values we used to have and the way things were done. It's taken away the belief, the pride, the passion I used to have. And that hurts. A lot. Just once, in 50 years, we had a club we could all be proud of. But we abandoned everything that gave us that pride.

It would have been so easy to have got rid of SOD in a civilised manner.

BobG

Bob G

Still talking about an event almost a year ago.

FFS move on man!

[hoolahoop]

You are missing the point/s completely Norfolk, I don't believe that you're that daft. We chucked away 10 years of growth, reputation away and you think it's irrelevant ?
 

[Norfolk N Chance]

You are missing the point/s completely Norfolk, I don't believe that you're that daft. We chucked away 10 years of growth, reputation away and you think it's irrelevant ?
 

Growth? What do you mean?

Growth what f***ing growth?

We had no youth team / reserve team?

Paying several million over the t/o generated through ST sales/ ticket?

The business model was a bloody shambles!

What would you have done?

Doing what we are doing now and get some f***ing structure!

[Norfolk N Chance]

You are missing the point/s completely Norfolk, I don't believe that you're that daft. We chucked away 10 years of growth, reputation away and you think it's irrelevant ?
 

Growth? What do you mean?

Growth what f***ing growth?

We had no youth team / reserve team?

Paying several million over the t/o generated through ST sales/ ticket?

The business model was a bloody shambles!

What would you have done?

Doing what we are doing now and get some f***ing structure!

PS please dont dare question my intelligent with incredible posts like that!

[hoolahoop]

You are missing the point/s completely Norfolk, I don't believe that you're that daft. We chucked away 10 years of growth, reputation away and you think it's irrelevant ?
 

Growth? What do you mean?

Growth what f***ing growth?

We had no youth team / reserve team?

Paying several million over the t/o generated through ST sales/ ticket?

The business model was a bloody shambles!

What would you have done?

Doing what we are doing now and get some f***ing structure!

PS please dont dare question my intelligent with incredible posts like that!

Bollox you've been spouting off for days nay weeks and you don't see how these last 6-8 months have destroyed what we've been building on for years .
It's not about SO'D v. Saunders, or whether we have a fookin Reserve team or buy a young'un from Bradford.
That bloody 'experiment' has managed to split our fanbase right through the middle, allowed folk to question JR and basically made us the 'laughing stock' of English football.
Btw when you start slagging off folk who helped to save this club from extinction i.e. BobG and pretending we have a structure that we obviously don't have and support a manager that quite frankly hasn't got a clue I then have to doubt not whether you are intelligent but whether you are looking at the wider picture.

[Norfolk N Chance]

You are missing the point/s completely Norfolk, I don't believe that you're that daft. We chucked away 10 years of growth, reputation away and you think it's irrelevant ?
 

Growth? What do you mean?

Growth what f***ing growth?

We had no youth team / reserve team?

Paying several million over the t/o generated through ST sales/ ticket?

The business model was a bloody shambles!

What would you have done?

Doing what we are doing now and get some f***ing structure!

PS please dont dare question my intelligent with incredible posts like that!

Bollox you've been spouting off for days nay weeks and you don't see how these last 6-8 months have destroyed what we've been building on for years .
It's not about SO'D v. Saunders, or whether we have a fookin Reserve team or buy a young'un from Bradford.
That bloody 'experiment' has managed to split our fanbase right through the middle, allowed folk to question JR and basically made us the 'laughing stock' of English football.
Btw when you start slagging off folk who helped to save this club from extinction i.e. BobG and pretending we have a structure that we obviously don't have and support a manager that quite frankly hasn't got a clue I then have to doubt not whether you are intelligent but whether you are looking at the wider picture.

FFS  words fail me tell you what their is no way forward is there?

We are all doomed?

OK I ask you again what would you have done?

What part of the "last throw of the dice" dont you understand?

Surely the first signing shows the intent this season?

If you cant move on, then not sure what you want from the club?

What do you want an apology?

For getting better players in and try to make a go for it in championship?

[hoolahoop]

You are missing the point/s completely Norfolk, I don't believe that you're that daft. We chucked away 10 years of growth, reputation away and you think it's irrelevant ?
 

Growth? What do you mean?

Growth what f***ing growth?

We had no youth team / reserve team?

Paying several million over the t/o generated through ST sales/ ticket?

The business model was a bloody shambles!

What would you have done?

Doing what we are doing now and get some f***ing structure!

PS please dont dare question my intelligent with incredible posts like that!

Bollox you've been spouting off for days nay weeks and you don't see how these last 6-8 months have destroyed what we've been building on for years .
It's not about SO'D v. Saunders, or whether we have a fookin Reserve team or buy a young'un from Bradford.
That bloody 'experiment' has managed to split our fanbase right through the middle, allowed folk to question JR and basically made us the 'laughing stock' of English football.
Btw when you start slagging off folk who helped to save this club from extinction i.e. BobG and pretending we have a structure that we obviously don't have and support a manager that quite frankly hasn't got a clue I then have to doubt not whether you are intelligent but whether you are looking at the wider picture.

FFS  words fail me tell you what their is no way forward is there?

We are all doomed?

OK I ask you again what would you have done?

What part of the "last throw of the dice" dont you understand?

Surely the first signing shows the intent this season?

If you cant move on, then not sure what you want from the club?

What do you want an apology?

For getting better players in and try to make a go for it in championship?

Of course we're not doomed but we MUST learn from this mistake and also question whether this was indeed the 'last throw of the dice'. Imo it wasn't.
However to  learn from the mistake , we have to accept it was without need for apologies and get on with the job in hand.
Their has been nothing so far to demonstrate to me that we are building a sound structure. If I've missed something in more than just one signing of a youngster from Bradford then please enlighten me.

[Norfolk N Chance]

You are missing the point/s completely Norfolk, I don't believe that you're that daft. We chucked away 10 years of growth, reputation away and you think it's irrelevant ?
 

Growth? What do you mean?

Growth what f***ing growth?

We had no youth team / reserve team?

Paying several million over the t/o generated through ST sales/ ticket?

The business model was a bloody shambles!

What would you have done?

Doing what we are doing now and get some f***ing structure!

PS please dont dare question my intelligent with incredible posts like that!

Bollox you've been spouting off for days nay weeks and you don't see how these last 6-8 months have destroyed what we've been building on for years .
It's not about SO'D v. Saunders, or whether we have a fookin Reserve team or buy a young'un from Bradford.
That bloody 'experiment' has managed to split our fanbase right through the middle, allowed folk to question JR and basically made us the 'laughing stock' of English football.
Btw when you start slagging off folk who helped to save this club from extinction i.e. BobG and pretending we have a structure that we obviously don't have and support a manager that quite frankly hasn't got a clue I then have to doubt not whether you are intelligent but whether you are looking at the wider picture.

FFS  words fail me tell you what their is no way forward is there?

We are all doomed?

OK I ask you again what would you have done?

What part of the "last throw of the dice" dont you understand?

Surely the first signing shows the intent this season?

If you cant move on, then not sure what you want from the club?

What do you want an apology?

For getting better players in and try to make a go for it in championship?

Of course we're not doomed but we MUST learn from this mistake and also question whether this was indeed the 'last throw of the dice'. Imo it wasn't.
However to  learn from the mistake , we have to accept it was without need for apologies and get on with the job in hand.
Their has been nothing so far to demonstrate to me that we are building a sound structure. If I've missed something in more than just one signing of a youngster from Bradford then please enlighten me.

Player of the year for Bradford aged 24 ? local?

Just think complete over reaction dont you?

[dickos1]

How do you know we haven't learnt from our mistakes? Do you attend board meetings?
What do you require to happen that will demonstrate to you we are building a sound structure?
The fan base is split because some people can understand John and the board were doing what they thought was right, while others want to continue to slate him for it.
I'm sure he regrets things but Jesus its in the past, gone should be forgotten but day in day out people are still going on about it.
We should be looking forwards now not continually whining about the past

[Norfolk N Chance]

How do you know we haven't learnt from our mistakes? Do you attend board meetings?
What do you require to happen that will demonstrate to you we are building a sound structure?
The fan base is split because some people can understand John and the board were doing what they thought was right, while others want to continue to slate him for it.
I'm sure he regrets things but Jesus its in the past, gone should be forgotten but day in day out people are still going on about it.
We should be looking forwards now not continually whining about the past

Thankfully I fully expect people to be enthused re forum tomorrow....

Not sure why supporters on here cant move on and seem to be proclaiming they saved the club before .....Well so did a certain Mr Ryan so not sure why they cant get behind him!

[donnyroversfc]

Time to admit defeat. I'm afraid you are on your own Dickos. As far as I am concerned the lunatics really have taken over the asylum.
It's time to consign this forum to the bin for me.
It's been fun but some people seem to want to remain buried in the past.
Goodbye all.

I suspect this may be like the time Kevin (from Kev and Perry go large) ran away from home, only to just sit in the bush in his back garden till his mum called him in.

If i'm wrong and you have actually left the forum though, then 

I find your posts laughable when you slag other uses off for not given Saunders a chance, and for them being unfair on him, when you was the exact same with SO'D. What a model supporter you are 

 

[keepmoatman]

Time to admit defeat. I'm afraid you are on your own Dickos. As far as I am concerned the lunatics really have taken over the asylum.
It's time to consign this forum to the bin for me.
It's been fun but some people seem to want to remain buried in the past.
Goodbye all.

I suspect this may be like the time Kevin (from Kev and Perry go large) ran away from home, only to just sit in the bush in his back garden till his mum called him in.

If i'm wrong and you have actually left the forum though, then 

I find your posts laughable when you slag other uses off for not given Saunders a chance, and for them being unfair on him, when you was the exact same with SO'D. What a model supporter you are 

 

I fear  you will be next but you have no choice in the matter 

[mjdgreg]

Time to admit defeat. I'm afraid you are on your own Dickos. As far as I am concerned the lunatics really have taken over the asylum.
It's time to consign this forum to the bin for me.
It's been fun but some people seem to want to remain buried in the past.
Goodbye all.

Now we just need Dickos and Norfolk to leave and then maybe we can move on.

Saunders out!!!!

[silent majority]

Time to admit defeat. I'm afraid you are on your own Dickos. As far as I am concerned the lunatics really have taken over the asylum.
It's time to consign this forum to the bin for me.
It's been fun but some people seem to want to remain buried in the past.
Goodbye all.

Now we just need Dickos and Norfolk to leave and then maybe we can move on.

What do you mean by 'we'?

Would that be you and Madmick50 by any chance?

[Norfolk N Chance]

Time to admit defeat. I'm afraid you are on your own Dickos. As far as I am concerned the lunatics really have taken over the asylum.
It's time to consign this forum to the bin for me.
It's been fun but some people seem to want to remain buried in the past.
Goodbye all.

Now we just need Dickos and Norfolk to leave and then maybe we can move on.

What do you mean by 'we'?

Would that be you and Madmick50 by any chance?

Going no where me!

I will continue to laugh at these sad persons posts , cos in the end they had the platform last night to make their points and they ran a mile!

[mjdgreg]

Going no where me!

That's a huge shame.

Saunders out!!!!

[Norfolk N Chance]

Going no where me!

That's a huge shame.

Saunders out!!!!

ABout as productive as previous posts....

No solutions or reasons!

So who in?