Spain

[River Don]

They just look superb at the moment.

Remember when Rovers used to aspire to play Tika taka football?

[Filo]

At times there appears more red shirts on the pitch than blue, Italy just can`t cope with the midfield runners of Spain!

[steve@dcfd]

They should be playing 442? Hitting long. Because the way they play is boring, no power, no passion.!! Their manager just sits there and does not shout and ball. They just have the players who first are technically brilliant, are fit, pass the ball with pace. Something the English game must learn. Our premiership may be exciting but technically poor and that passes its way down through the leagues. If we played without a recognised striker the manager wold be vilified.

[MachoMadness]

Best team of all time, let their football do the talking. I think it's unfair to compare us or any team to this lot, I have never seen a better team than this Spain side. Even their players on the bench are world class.

I remember when the 'total football' page on Wikipedia listed notable teams that played that system, including Barcelona, Ajax... and Doncaster Rovers! It was good when it worked well, sadly it just became too much for us to do.

[River Don]

Sorry, I should have said tippy tappy football.

[mushRTID]

Iniesta has to be the best midfielder in the world?

Touch, awareness, balance, composure, pace. Just everything. Brilliant to watch.

[The L J Monk]

Best team of all time, let their football do the talking. I think it's unfair to compare us or any team to this lot, I have never seen a better team than this Spain side. Even their players on the bench are world class.

Barce are comfortably a better team.

Spain's national team in 2008 was probably their finest vintage, but even in their slow decline they're still streets ahead of most other teams.

Brazil 1970 remain the best team of all time for me.

[MachoMadness]

Thing is with Iniesta, he's made twice the player by his partnership with Xavi and then the way they fit in with the rest of the midfield is unbelievable.  It's like cogs in a perfect football machine.

I don't buy this "they couldn't do it on a wet Tuesday night in November in Newcastle" nonsense either.

3-0 now. Almost uncomfortable how easy this is.

[MachoMadness]

Barce are comfortably a better team.

Spain's national team in 2008 was probably their finest vintage, but even in their slow decline they're still streets ahead of most other teams.

Brazil 1970 remain the best team of all time for me.

I wasn't around for that Brazil team, although they didn't win 3 major tournaments in a row did they? As for Barca, I dunno. I just think in terms of fluid football units, Spain are just unstoppable.

4-0 now. Welp.

[River Don]

4 now.

You've got to feel sorry for Italy, they don't deserve hammering like this. It's just unfortunate they're down to 10.

[MachoMadness]

Just heard Torres will win the golden boot - he's hardly played! Just goes to show how bloody good they are. 4-0 in a major final, never seen anything like it. Also worth it to see Balotelli having a mardy at the end

So which of these Spain players do we want to see playing for Rovers next season then?

[River Don]

So which of these Spain players do we want to see playing for Rovers next season then?

Any of 'em!

[The L J Monk]

I wasn't around for that Brazil team, although they didn't win 3 major tournaments in a row did they? As for Barca, I dunno. I just think in terms of fluid football units, Spain are just unstoppable.

No team has really won 3 major tournaments in a row. Teams evolve, personnel change. Spain tonight for example only had 6 of the players that started and won the 2008 final. I think that as a one off team the Brazil 1970 outfit had so much flair, played with such aplomb, and had an out and out superstar in Pele, that it would be hard for them to be matched.

The current Barce team are probably the nearest thing to that team in that they are a more offensive version of Spain, and of course feature Messi.

[MachoMadness]

I do think it's going to be one of the great footballing debates just how good this Spain team are compared to some of the great teams in history. I'd argue that the fact this Spain team has no real standout players makes them stronger, because they're all just that good and on the same wavelength. I've never seen a team play without a striker, let alone win a tournament on cruise control without one.

[River Don]

Boring though, aren't they?

[Filo]

MoM JT collects the trophy

[The L J Monk]

Boring though, aren't they?

Tonight they were fantastic. I wish they'd play like that all the time. However, up to the final their games have been a mixed bag. Partly because of what they're faced with, and partly because of Del Bosque's increasing desire to protect rather than attack.

[Filo]

Best team of all time, let their football do the talking. I think it's unfair to compare us or any team to this lot, I have never seen a better team than this Spain side. Even their players on the bench are world class.

Barce are comfortably a better team.

Spain's national team in 2008 was probably their finest vintage, but even in their slow decline they're still streets ahead of most other teams.

Brazil 1970 remain the best team of all time for me.

That would be some game between those two teams, Pele, Alberto, Rivelino Jairzinho, what a team they were

[The L J Monk]

That would be some game between those two teams, Pele, Alberto, Rivelino Jairzinho, what a team they were

Spot on Filo. Just look at this to understand just how good they were:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIq4qHhR_8c" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIq4qHhR_8c</a>

[BobG]

Agree the 1970 Brazilians would be a tough match. What about the 1974 Dutch team as well though? They were really up there too. Neeskens. Arie Haan. De Jong. Van Hanegam. Rudi Krol. The beginning the van der Kerkhoff brothers. Even without Cruyff that lot were, and still would be one of the very best sides ever. Of course, they had Cruyff too. 

I must confess though, those Spaniards are plain awe inspiring though aren't they?! Bloody good job we got nowhere near the Final....

BobG

[Mr1Croft]

I would say the best midfielder in the world at the moment is Bastian Schweinsteiger and when you watch him you'd think he was Spanish.
 
This Spanish set up is brilliant, because it is so simple; 2 in defence and 8 in midfield (lets face it the "full backs" do not play a defensive game) their space is their striker and because their is no one stand alone player it makes them even better, they all work for each other, I have watched the highlights back and paused it when Spain are on the attack, and they average 6 players making attacking runs per attack, and 6 players coming back to defend.
Their defensive record speaks for itself in this tournament, they just cannot be broken down. People say they are on the decline but with players like Mata coming through I doubt that.
Am I right in saying England and Spain are the only teams to remain unbeaten in the tournament?

[BillyStubbsTears]

LJ.

Genius post. That highlights just how much rose-tintedness is going on when folk look back to the Brazil 70 side.

They WERE incredible by the standards of the time. By the standards of the time, they were like a side from another planet.

But the standards move on, year by year. If the Brazil 70 side played in present day football, at the pace and the quality they played in 1970, they might just, JUST stay up in Div 2. If they had a bit of luck with the refereeing decisions. Football these days is THAT much better. Coppinger is a better player by far than Pele. No question whatsoever. Faster, better on the ball, stronger, fitter, better dribbler, better shooter.

That's no surprise to anyone who watches the game carefully. Cruyff was better than Pele. In 1958, Pele was a phenomenon, knocking a ball up in the penalty area and bicycle kicking it into the net. Michael McIndoe was doing the same, only quicker and more adroitly in a run-of-the-mill Bottom Tier match in 2003. In 1974, the Cruyff turn was a work of art that no-one in football could even begin to imagine. And now the Cruyff turn is perfected by 8 year olds on park pitches.

Then Maradona was better than Cruyff. Maradona's goal against England in 1986 was beyond comparison at the time. But then Zidane was better than Maradona. He would do things with the ball, in the tightest of spaces that Maradona could not have dreamed of. And Ronaldo, Iniesta, Xavi, Pirlo and Messi are years ahead of anything that Zidane could do.

It's what happens in football. It keeps getting better. The current Spain side is the best national side in history by a country mile and three quarters. I would love to see them play the Brazil 70 side. Just for 10 mins. It would be 5-0 by that time.

[RedJ]

Anyone else think Alonso is underrated?

[The Beast]

Don't think the evoution of the human species works that fast. I like Coppinger but reckon Pele in a foot race tomorrow. As for Pirlo being better than Zidane not a chance!

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's not a question of the evolution of the human species. It's a question of the evolution of sportsmen.

Professional sportsmen these days are significantly better athletes than ones from only 10 years ago, never mind 40 years ago.

Look at the 100m. The winning time in the 72 Olympics was 10.14s. In Beijing, that would have got you 6th place in the semi-final.

In football, it is even more stark. Alan Shearer was considered a hard-working striker. He typically ran 7-8km in a game. He would be run off his feet in modern football. Pirlo against England, ran 12.5km. At 33. And he passed the ball like it was a training match. These players would simply run the legs off players from only 10 years ago. And to compare them with players from 40 years ago is laughable. The fitness and physicality standards these days are so much higher.

Go and watch just how quickly the feet of a Pirlo, a Messi, an Iniesta or a Ronaldo operate, even when they are putting in a lung-busting athletic shift. Then find ANY example of a player from 20 years ago being able to do anything remotely as quick minded at a similar physical speed.

It never happened.

Maradona's wonder goal is still wonderful to watch. But it was at nowhere near the pace that today's game operates. And the England Brazil game from 1970 never got above training match speed. Granted, both were at altitude, but that alone diesn't explain the difference in pace to the modern game.

Kevin Keegan was a phenomenon in the 70s. His physique and physical drive were exceptional. Bill Shankley commented that he looked like a welterweight boxer when he took his shirt off. In today's game. EVERY player looks like that. Apart from the ones who have the physique of a middleweight or light-heavyweight. Billy Sharp is physically (and in footballing ability) way ahead of Keegan in his prime.


None of this is saying that Pele, Keegan or any other player from a previous era would not be able to match today's physical standards. But the point is that they didn't have to do. So the wonderful things they did with the ball at the pace they did them at, could not be done in modern football. Any moderate pro today would simply brush them aside. That's what I mean about Coppinger being better than Pele. He has moments if sublime dribbling skill in a game that is (week in, week out) faster and more physically demanding than ANYTHING that Pele ever played in in his entire career.

[The L J Monk]

I don't buy this "they couldn't do it on a wet Tuesday night in November in Newcastle" nonsense either.

If Platini gets his way with Euro 2020 then we might just see this put to the test!

[Dimples-D]

Just a bit about the Brazil 1970 team. I spent 2 months in Rio a few years ago and spoke with many Brazilians about football. I asked them what they thought was the best Brazil team ever and maybe half of them said the 1982 team. I said that they never won the World Cup. They all replied the same, "Yes but they should have cos they were the best."
As for Spain last night.. fantastic and extra special for me cos my son was born there. ¡Viva España!

[River Don]

It's very difficult to compare different eras of football. It's easy to assume Pele would be able to do the pasta and chicken diet, the exercise regime and be as fast and as powerful as any today and his skill would still shine through. But would he be able to do it? Even with all the training in the world would he have been fast enough?

Impossible to say.

[The Beast]

I agree with what you are saying about the conditioning being so much better now and agree that this Spanish side is probably the best international side ever and Barca are the best team ever to play the game. Just think Maradonna was a phenomenal athlete with unbelievable skill and would walk into any team of the present. As for Keegan and Sharp I reckon Keegan had more pace than Sharp has now. Although you can relatively easily improve your stamina, pace can only be tweaked and not improved significantly.
       I think as well as the conditioning issue another big issue is footballing mentality. The England squad are as athletic and well conditioned as any that's gone before but are light years behind Brazil 70, Holland 78, Spain 2012 and even Rovers 2010 in the way they play.

[MachoMadness]

Have to say I agree with BST. Levels of fitness and technology are so much better these days, and that includes boots, shinpads, balls etc that most people don't even consider. This kind of thing applies to every sport. However, even speaking relatively I would still say this Spain era has achieved more than any other team.

I do disagree with BST on one thing, Maradona's wonder goal is not wonderful to watch for me at all!