Copps

[Filo]

Filo, I agree there should be a cut off point but would we be in a position to turn a bid down for copps, purely based on his wages?? Personally I think we have to sell

In contrast, if someone came in for bennett we are in a different position, he's not a big wage player and the ball we would be in our court, we could either say get lost or we could name a silly figure and see what's offered

Probably not, but a bold statement from the club might just drive the price up, we have to be in control of the situation, at the moment we appear for from being in control, pre-empt the bid coming in and put us on the front foot, sitting back and waiting is no good for us, we`ll get ripped off and have no time to find a replacement if we do.

Sorry Dave but your wrong. Copps was one of the high earners that needed to go, as it happens nobody wanted him and he's still here. There won't be any bold statement about keeping Copps, if he can be moved on he will, but as of yet no firm enquiries.

Martin, there`s apparent interest, clubs are playing us, we let every man and his dog know that we were prepared to let the high earners go, Burnley took the piss in signing Stock and now we`re prepared to let other clubs take the piss again, sometimes you`ve just got to bite your lip and call their bluff, either they want him or they don`t, lets just not let it happen and then give ourselves little time to replace him, call the shots and be brave, they`ll never make good poker players at DRFC!

Dave, I get your point but I do think you misunderstand the situation. We need to offload certain players so we can replace them with other players of equal ability for less money. Every club in the land does this, its called a transfer list, it advertises our players to other clubs. Are you saying we should play hard ball with clubs who respond to that? What your saying is you think the buying club is getting a better deal than we are. How do you know that? How do you know that Burnley took the 'piss' to use your phrase?

And now your saying that we are letting other clubs take the 'piss' again. How do you know that? There has been an enquiry, we acknowledge that, but no formal offer or any formal approach. If you consider he's been on the list for quite some time then how do you play hard ball with somebody who hasn't made a formal approach or contemplated a serious offer. Again to use your phrase how do you play poker when your opponent hasn't sat down at the table or had a look at his cards?

I`m saying that if a club wants him, try to force their hand, what`s the point in letting him go without having the time to replace him with 2 or three players on less money, that`s what appears to be happening.

Regarding Burnley pissing us about, as far as I know, Stock could originally go to Burnley on a free, Burnley dragged their feet and when Burnley came back in for him Rovers wanted a fee because some of our targets had gone elsewhere and it would cost us money to get the right replacements, which Burnley at first did n`t want to pay, they then offered us an amount to cover Stock`s wages while they dragged their feet plus a bit more. They`re the facts as I understand them, whether we eventually accepted that offer I don`t know, but it certainly appears to me that Burnley pissed us about and we missed out on some of our targets because of that, or that`s what we`ve been told

[silent majority]

Dave, I think the club have been working very hard to force people's hand, but it can't happen if people don't want what you've got, or they do want them but only at the right price. Patience in these things sometimes works well.

[godlike1]

It's nice for once to see such a maternal instinct wanting to protect rovers rather than moan about them all the time.

I am genuinely impressed and it shows that they are true supporters after all and want only the best for the club

A little bit of a patronising statement? Yes but I do genuinely mean it.

 Thanks once again to silent for making it clear that if someone comes in for cops with the right money then he can go if he wants to. He will know nthe fans want him to stay but he will not want to miss out on championship footy and who can blame him. I heard a rumour along time ago that he would have been off if we had not got promoted so we have seen 4 more years of him than we potentially could have so cannot complain at that

[SIRFRAN]

I think the main thing with coppinger, knowing he doesn't get on with saunders, and knowing he's on a big wage, is that its best he goes! Great on his day, great for the rovers and gutted when he goes but its probably best for all parties for several reasons, the main one being EVERY player and supporter needs to be behind the manager and the team!!

I was a massive fan of SOD, and I will be honest, come the end of last season I couldn't slag saunders anymore then I did, however......the strategy the club have put in place, the work gary baldwins doing,the direction the club is now aiming to be run and be going,and the squad dean has been trying to put together with all the restrictions he's faced, along with the enthusiasm he's shown to have a successful season has finally, for the first time in 18 months, generated the feel good factor that we've missed so dearly!!

The jury is still out on saunders for me, I wish him all the best,  I just hope the fans get behind him and give him a chance, and forget what's gone before, judge deano at christmas with the squad he has built himself!!

[RobTheRover]

however......the strategy the club have put in place, the work gary baldwins doing,the direction the club is now aiming to be run and be going,and the squad dean has been trying to put together with all the restrictions he's faced, along with the enthusiasm he's shown to have a successful season has finally, for the first time in 18 months, generated the feel good factor that we've missed so dearly!!

The jury is still out on saunders for me, I wish him all the best,  I just hope the fans get behind him and give him a chance, and forget what's gone before, judge deano at christmas with the squad he has built himself!!

Wow, Gavin's got a hard working assistant with the same surname!

[wing commander]

Now being reported in the old currant bun this morning as well.Mind you there also saying boro payed half a mill for friend so read into that what you will...

   I'm not a Coppinger fan as most know but i blame SOD for killing him as a player,we started to lose the natural flowing,beat a man down the wing player we used to have when SOD made him stop that and put his foot on the ball and lay off....
   Now we have a player who produces flashes every now and again but wont scare any opposition these days..He is on too much money for us for what he returns...And i defy anybody to say the team wont be stronger overall if we can use some of the money his wages and fee will bring him...SELL

[Leebtyler]

Filo, I agree there should be a cut off point but would we be in a position to turn a bid down for copps, purely based on his wages?? Personally I think we have to sell

In contrast, if someone came in for bennett we are in a different position, he's not a big wage player and the ball we would be in our court, we could either say get lost or we could name a silly figure and see what's offered

Probably not, but a bold statement from the club might just drive the price up, we have to be in control of the situation, at the moment we appear for from being in control, pre-empt the bid coming in and put us on the front foot, sitting back and waiting is no good for us, we`ll get ripped off and have no time to find a replacement if we do.

Sorry Dave but your wrong. Copps was one of the high earners that needed to go, as it happens nobody wanted him and he's still here. There won't be any bold statement about keeping Copps, if he can be moved on he will, but as of yet no firm enquiries.

Martin, there`s apparent interest, clubs are playing us, we let every man and his dog know that we were prepared to let the high earners go, Burnley took the piss in signing Stock and now we`re prepared to let other clubs take the piss again, sometimes you`ve just got to bite your lip and call their bluff, either they want him or they don`t, lets just not let it happen and then give ourselves little time to replace him, call the shots and be brave, they`ll never make good poker players at DRFC!

Dave, I get your point but I do think you misunderstand the situation. We need to offload certain players so we can replace them with other players of equal ability for less money. Every club in the land does this, its called a transfer list, it advertises our players to other clubs. Are you saying we should play hard ball with clubs who respond to that? What your saying is you think the buying club is getting a better deal than we are. How do you know that? How do you know that Burnley took the 'piss' to use your phrase?

And now your saying that we are letting other clubs take the 'piss' again. How do you know that? There has been an enquiry, we acknowledge that, but no formal offer or any formal approach. If you consider he's been on the list for quite some time then how do you play hard ball with somebody who hasn't made a formal approach or contemplated a serious offer. Again to use your phrase how do you play poker when your opponent hasn't sat down at the table or had a look at his cards?

excellent point, look at Billy Paynter, we COULD have had to pay a lot for him, but Leeds paid out his contract, so Dean definately does have  a business head on... as i said to BerksRover on Twitter last night, i dont like it, but i think it could be one of those beneficial sales to allow us to fill the bench with quality players not just fillers... a necessary evil if you will.. sure not a popular sale, but if it pays off and we get quality, at the end of a good season who will be holding it against Saunders? mind you if it goes badly, i think it could be a double edge dagger for Saunders.  tough call.

[roverstillidie91]

Latest

"@paulgoodwinDFP: Saunders: “I’m aware that there’s a bit of interest from Hull in Copps but until Steve Bruce makes a bid there’s no more to say. #drfc"

[The Beast]

I like Copps, when I pay my money I like to see players with a bit of ability who can do something different, players who've got technique, time on the ball and composure.  Having said that, if  Hull fancy him and he wants another crack at the Championship why stand in his way, we've had his best years, he doesn't owe us anything. If we get him off the wage bill and get a few quid for him maybe there's the next James Coppinger out there somewhere we could invest the money in. In any case we're not too badly off for wingers/ attacking midfielders.

[RobTheRover]

I like Copps, when I pay my money I like to see players with a bit of ability who can do something different, players who've got technique, time on the ball and composure.  Having said that, if  Hull fancy him and he wants another crack at the Championship why stand in his way, we've had his best years, he doesn't owe us anything. If we get him off the wage bill and get a few quid for him maybe there's the next James Coppinger out there somewhere we could invest the money in. In any case we're not too badly off for wingers/ attacking midfielders.

I agree with that, Beast.  Copps has been brilliant for us, no question, and we have certainly seen his best days with us.  Having said that, if Hull or Derby or Forest want to give him a big fat contract and a nice payday then I think we should say "Good luck, Copps, and thanks for the good times".

[Al4475]

Agreed wholeheartedly! As should be the case with everyone who moves on Rob!

[ravenrover]

Is Copps the 1 that JR said didn't have a relegation clause in his contract, I'm sure some the of the posters on here MUST KNOW.
Who actually knows what Copps money is on, yes he must be one our big earners but do we have to lose ALL of them?
The problem I see is that if Copps does stay it looks very difficult to play him Kyle and Cotts in the same team, all 3 want to migrate out to the wings. It looked like Copps started off on Saturday as the 1 behind the front two of Brown and Bennett with Cotts wide but as the game wore on Copps ended up wide right, his best position, and Cotts wide left Bennett just seemed to wander around as if he hadn't got a clue where he was supposed to be playing.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Kyle really should be able to play inside left too, not much to ask. Having Cotts and him interchanging is a big plus.

[CusworthRovers]

Filo, I may be wrong but it certainly looks to me like the club has openly shown it's hand in the transfer window card game. Unfortunately our hand at the end of the season and in off season was/is 10 high at best, all the other clubs hold the better cards.

Silent Majority, the only thing that's a slight worry in your responses is you state we offload (the likes of Copps/Stocky, whom we are basically talking about here) certain players so we can replace them with other players of equal ability for less money. That's very hard to do and I'm not sure that's happened especially in the said 2 players cases (assuming Copps is to leave). I am willing and hoping that I'm proved wrong like, as I would love to see players of their ilk here, and even better if they are on far less money. 

[silent majority]

Cussy,

I did say so that we can do it rather than we have done it. Maybe I should have said that was the plan. But again like for like replacements are difficult to judge and I would leave that to others who are far better at it than I am to make the case. But ponder this, Stocky has made 20 appearances for this club over the last 2 seasons, and his replacement hasn't been signed yet, so on the level of wages we paid Stocky he became a luxury we just couldn't afford anymore.

[CusworthRovers]

I'm not after getting into old wounds but I thought Stocky played more times than that. Is Wiki says 63apps which is far better than 20 and suggests not quite ready for the knackers yard.

This is where everything is confusing these days. If we are adopting that policy of vfm, then aren't we straying from that with a lot of our new signings and there injury record, which in fairness makes Stocky look like a new spring lamb. 'Yes but they are on far less' I hear you shout, but I will counter a argument of quality and that if these guys get injured again (I hope to christ not, but would it surprise us), then we are then looking at more £2k,£3k's to then replace them.
Again, ditching players if they are injury prone is surely an argument for Shelts and Woods M not to be here.

I can buy the luxury item argument, but it's a dangerous one......and if his replacement is not signed yet, then I can't wait for this calibre of player to arrive. Reasons to be optimistic or am I to be deflated? 

[Rovin Reporter]

Maybe it is time to let Copps go , let's face one hat trick every 4 years is not much to brag about is it .

[Dagenham Rover]

Aye but it was one hell of an  hat trick

[silent majority]

Cussy,

Not so much VFM but more a case of when we're a lg1 club we need to sign players on lg1 wages. If you don't do that you have to have a very small squad or your budget is far larger than you want it to be. If we had been relegated from the PL to the Championship there could be an argument for keeping our star players to attempt to get straight back, but that's the benefit of parachute payments. I'm not sure about signing players with poor injury records, McCombe maybe? I think the club would agree on the Woods and Shelts front, but sometimes you can't do everything, and Woods has proved himself throughout the summer with his own training regime.

I'd be optimistic if I were you, I can't see any reasons not to be. I leave the arguments about which players are better than others to other people who know more than I do, but I do know a well run and ambitious football club when I see one, and we have one of those.

[Chris Black come back]

This just edges the argument about Shelton Martis towards the "worst signing since Carl Alford" conclusion. Contract longer than time itself and constantly injured. What a waste.

[mushRTID]

Does anyone actually knows what's up with Martis?

[Al4475]

Love Copps to bits but have always said if he'd been a consistent player for his time with us a la McIndoe he woulda left ages ago!

I'd love to see him stay and reach a testimonial season as not many players manage that nowadays but would never begrudge him another Championship shot and last decent payday!

A vital cog in our resurgence under Penney and SOD, maybe not so vital under DS - whatever happens cheers Copps and all the best be that with us or with anyone else!

[Chris Black come back]

Does anyone actually knows what's up with Martis?

You name it, the guy must have had it: nile fever, trench foot, croup, consumption, scurvy, leprosy. Total waste of money. Livid about what we could have bought with all that money.

[CusworthRovers]

Cussy,

Not so much VFM but more a case of when we're a lg1 club we need to sign players on lg1 wages. If you don't do that you have to have a very small squad or your budget is far larger than you want it to be. If we had been relegated from the PL to the Championship there could be an argument for keeping our star players to attempt to get straight back, but that's the benefit of parachute payments. I'm not sure about signing players with poor injury records, McCombe maybe? I think the club would agree on the Woods and Shelts front, but sometimes you can't do everything, and Woods has proved himself throughout the summer with his own training regime.

I'd be optimistic if I were you, I can't see any reasons not to be. I leave the arguments about which players are better than others to other people who know more than I do, but I do know a well run and ambitious football club when I see one, and we have one of those.

Lg1 wages in all honesty don't give you the calibre of player that is Stock and Copps at this stage of their career. This is essentially what the crux of this little debate is about. I personally feel we won't get that type of player for a blackies egg and an old catty. If you feel we will then fine. You may be right in fact, if we do acquire Robert (I would have to agree we have a player with a Copps potential and capability). All the other stuff we could politely debate all day long.

At this moment I'm not optimistic (albeit I'm not pessimistic), I'm hopeful is the phrase, and certainly want the best for DRFC. I'm right behind them and they have my sword.

The main thing is getting behind the Club. I will be doing that and I will see you Saturday (although we don't know each other, we'll probs see each other with the numbers there)

[The Beast]

Does anyone actually knows what's up with Martis?

Not sure but he got through the spinning class at Nuffield Health  yesterday without pulling up!

[Filo]

Does anyone actually knows what's up with Martis?

Not sure but he got through the spinning class at Nuffield Health  yesterday without pulling up!

I think he managed to come through the photo shoot unscathed as well :-)

[jonnydog]

Hair out of place apparently, knocked his come back date back by 3 months!

[RobTheRover]

Didnt he have a problem with his groin?  Not 100% sure.

[Red wizard]

Deano said at the supporters club agm the Shelts had one legg bigger than the other. He broke it when he was a kid. When he gets fit again they are going to shim his boots. LOL.

[DonnyRTID]

Thought it was a recurring ankle problem.