Something Is Rotten In The State Of Denmark

[Bristol Red Rover]

I'm glad this is being debated in the open and not in a room.

I had been irritated by some of Bob G's contributions over the last several months - there always seemed to be something missing, so we were getting what did seem to me like a conspiracy theory which was fed by several others who made out to "be in the know" about behind the scenes goings on.

From the above I entirely get where Bob G is coming from and feel it is a very valid debate where he is highlighting potential problems "strategy" wise, where on the other hand its widely agreed the "operational" functioning looks very healthy.

Less board members enabling decision making to be simpler sounds like a good move, but what are the reasons for Dick and Terry not being on the board? I'm guessing the more likely reason is they wish to keep life simple for themselves and trust JR's handling of things in that realm. However, as I feel Bob G rightly suggests, it is a situation that asks for a keen eye to be kept on it, trust alone is not valid for security in this circumstance.

The "operational" areas that in the past were always up for debate as the club rolled towards its current "operational" functioning are very clearly covered by Gavins communications with the VSC I understand how some people may feel frustrated with criticism or persistant questions re "strategy" if they do know more but can't fully say. In the past, with Andy on the board, I entirely trusted his summaries that did leave out details. I also trust the opinions of current VSC directors, though it appears to me the direct line to the top isn't as clear as it was when Andy was on the board with JR et al.

Shaddows exist in life, its good to know where they lie.

[BobG]

Lol. Fair enough BRR.

There's always an incredibly difficult choice to be made when you know something important that is not public. Keep your mouth shut and you risk being party to failure or worse. Open your mouth wide and you could cost someone his job. My decision a year or so back, for good or ill, was to say what I could without endangering fellow human beings. I did know quite a lot about what happened when SOD was pushed out. I used that to ask questions. To hopefully provoke a few people into finding out for themselves and to perhaps help in the creation of a, however small, force for good.

Since then, I've not had any inside information at all. All I have done, like in this current fracas, is to use my brain and my experience. I won't be totally right. And I won't be totally wrong. The point, as I hope you saw, is that questions exist that will affect the longer term direction and success of the Rovers. Those questions boil down to the motives of two of the people who seem to be seen now as funding the club - as they may well be doing. But it's not so long ago that they both were very loudly proclaiming that they were coming back onto the Board but would not be investing more money. The reality of their actions since strike me as very odd when placed alongside what they said then. Which did they mean? That they would invest? Or that they wouldn't? That they would come back onto the Board? Or that they wouldn't?

So, I'm sorry if my decision to not tell the entire story, or to name names, irritated you. That was never my intention. My defence was my desire to protect others.

Cheers

BobG

[Norfolk N Chance]

FFS move on ......

[Bristol Red Rover]

FFS move on ......

As always... if you don't want to engage in this, don't read it 

[Colin C No.3]

FFS move on ......

All too deep for you matey?

Ok. So Norfolk, will you be 'avin turkey this Christmas?

[silent majority]

BobG,

I owe you an apology for mistaking you for someone else who did publicly leave the VSC. I will answer some more of your questions but I'd prefer to do this by pm or phone. However, I will then be accused no doubt of having something to hide, but all I can say to that is not a single Rovers fan should be worried about that, any difficulties were solved years ago but have left Bob with unanswered questions, nothing more to it than that.

[Rios]

FFS move on ......

Wasn't that what you announced you were doing in your "look at me" thread the other day?

[BobG]

Lol SM! Good one! Actually, I'd really love to talk to you. You've been a helluva influence for good. i am proud of you, and all your colleagues too, for that. Collectively you are all something that this club has needed for a very, very long time. And I really (really!!) do appreciate the huge time and effort you all put in.

I suppose my weakness is that I am older than many on here; that I've seen more, and that I have been exposed, over many years now, to all kinds of devious stories and behaviours through the job that I do. I don't spot them all, but I do spot enough - and I don't mean just on here. I have a reasonable memory, too, that allows me to link events separated by significant periods of time to reach irritating conclusions and ask awkward questions.  Personally, I think there is a really valid role for awkward sods like me. Not always right, maybe not ever right even. But if those in positions of power are never asked difficult or awkward questions, we can see the consequences all around us can't we? Just look at the banks as one obvious example.

Cheers

BobG

[The L J Monk]

Are you Vince Cable?

[albie]

Intersting discussion this, and some good points raised.

The issue which interested me was this from SM;
"Not only that but whilst JR, TB and DW are funding the massive gap in our income stream they are doing so by converting the money they put in by converting that into shares. Whilst that is good for the club and means the club carry no debt its not good for our shareholding which gets diluted. We currently have about 1.5% of the club, but we are working on ways to increase this."

So if TB and DW are taking additional shares for funds supplied, the shareholding of all other stakeholders is reduced, not just the VSC, but JR himself and the other minority shareholders.

Unless JR is matching them £ for £, his own financial interest is weakening. It also might explain why some investors no longer wished to be on the board of directors.

The issued share capital of the company will increasingly not reflect the value of the business as a trading entity.

Over time, TB and DW increase their control of the club, but are they in it for the long haul? Not doubting their commitment, but neither of them are young men.

The reality is that when TB and DW step down, they can sell their shares to whoever they wish, within the limited restrictions of the "fit and proper" persons spec.

This is why the strategy is important, to try to give long term continuity in the management of the club. Some of the good work of the VSC adds to this, but I am not sure looking to increase shares will help unless the VSC is confident is can reach a meaningful 25%.

Trouble is, that is a fixed percentage of a rising total!

[silent majority]

Albie,

Just to confirm JR will be matching them so no problems there. But for a club in our position its not a bad situation, it certainly beats loading the club with debt.

Oh, and I can guarantee there is no queue for buying shares, which pretty much means TB and DW will be in it for the long haul.

[Beerseller]

Bob G, SM, thank you both for a very interesting debate.   If it is ever questioned why we have a forum, this is just the sort of thing should be used as an example of the best that comes from it.

[BobG]

Lol! Thank you very much indeed Beerseller!

I think it's probably wisest if we all let it die a death now. It's gone far enough.

Cheers

BobG