Benefits

[jucyberry]

As you well know an extremely high percentage of those entitled to benefits are working.. A question for you Mick.. If you so despise those who need help what do you do if any of your tennants fall on hard times and need to claim? I can only assume as you take such a hard line that you don't accept anyone who needs housing benefit to live in one of your properties..

[mjdgreg]

As you well know an extremely high percentage of those entitled to benefits are working..

That's a rubbish answer. I'm not taking a hard line. I'm just asking an obvious question that no-one seems to want to give an answer to. So I'll ask again. Is it right for the taxpayer to subsidise the living costs of those that are living in areas that they wouldn't be able to afford to live in without taxpayer support? It doesn't matter if they're working or not.

I don't think it is right for me to live in say Bessacarr if I can't afford the rent or the cost of buying a house. Why on earth should the taxpayer be obliged to pay my rent or mortgage interest just because I choose to live beyond my means?

Cue the usual leftie nonsense that I'm a heartless right winger.

[mjdgreg]

A question for you mjdgreg.. If you so despise those who need help what do you do if any of your tennants fall on hard times and need to claim? I can only assume as you take such a hard line that you don't accept anyone who needs housing benefit to live in one of your properties..

You ask a question and you will get a proper answer (not the usual drivel I get when I ask a question). I don't despise those who need help. I despise those who get help that don't need it or shouldn't be getting because they are living beyond their means.

I have experience of one of my tenants falling on hard times and I stopped taking rent off them until they were back on their feet again. I didn't ask them to make up the lost revenue. I am a 'big society' sort of person. I have no problem housing someone who is on housing benefit if they are a genuine case. All my tenants pay below the market rate and I have never evicted anyone (I'm not a greedy person).

Right, anyone, please try and give me a proper answer to my question and stop burying your heads in the sand and being evasive.

[mjdgreg]

Still waiting.

[Nudga]

Still waiting.

Not took the hint yet?

[mjdgreg]

Not took the hint yet?

Not got an answer yet?

[Nudga]

yeah I have, I just can't be arsed with having a bore off with you.

[mjdgreg]

yeah I have, I just can't be arsed with having a bore off with you.

Just give your answer (if you've got one) and I promise not to have a bore off with you. Please try to give me a proper answer and not the evasive drivel that Jucyberry came up with. I'm not holding my breath.

[wilts rover]

As you well know an extremely high percentage of those entitled to benefits are working..

That's a rubbish answer. I'm not taking a hard line. I'm just asking an obvious question that no-one seems to want to give an answer to. So I'll ask again. Is it right for the taxpayer to subsidise the living costs of those that are living in areas that they wouldn't be able to afford to live in without taxpayer support? It doesn't matter if they're working or not.

I don't think it is right for me to live in say Bessacarr if I can't afford the rent or the cost of buying a house. Why on earth should the taxpayer be obliged to pay my rent or mortgage interest just because I choose to live beyond my means?

Cue the usual leftie nonsense that I'm a heartless right winger.

OK, yes because
a)as a taxpayer living in this country you have no say in what the government decides is best for the whole of society other than the ballot box every five years - its called a democracy. Why for instance as a healthy, single, cycling pacifist, should my taxes be spent on hospitals, schools, roads, railways and military? Because that is the decision of the government to do so for the benefit of more than myself.
b) to argue otherwise is to argue for ghettoisation - to say that certain people should only live in certain areas - we are all entitled to a decent standard of living - its up to government policies to give opportunities for this.

apologies for the grammar/spelling, i'm busy doing something else and need to be quick as you are not worth spending much time on

[Dagenham Rover]

and another cracking Tory idea

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/tory-manifesto-%e2%80%98blueprint%e2%80%99-lower-benefits-for-north-980372

[redwine]

Goldmines. I've heard it all now.
mjdgreg - give me the name of one of your businesses.

One of my businesses is known as Bookie Basher.

Todger basher is more like it !!!!

[jucyberry]

Frankly I would put more blame on landlords who fix their rent impossibly high all the time knowing that the system would pay. That and the fact that so much 'social' housing stock has been sold off.

Nothing is ever said about the fact that these houses in London..( it's always London after all for the media the world stops at the Watford gap) with their monopoly money rents should never be offered in the first place.

I can think of very few, if not anyone who if finding themselves in need of a home would say sorry all I deserve in life is a hovel.

I'll turn it round again for you.. You advocate a form of (un) social cleansing moving anyone in need of help with their rent to places more fitting for them, (being just base scroungers) no matter how long their connection or roots in the communities they live in at the moment.......

So, as an area financial depression where many are already struggling and jobs are not exacty plentiful, how would you feel about a mass migration of homeless people shunted your way by a government who just wants the poor to fall by the wayside and rot in a ditch?

This country is struggling, I cannot for the life of me see how moving people around like counters in one of those little puzzles we used to play with as kids will help...

All it will do is create massive resentment from the locals who see any affordable housing being taken by incomers, and their communities being drained of resources that they have already paid for in their taxes...

So, as I have said before.. What is the governments next step? A poster campain similar to the nazi parties in 1938...........?

Oh silly me, don't we already have that with their charming skivers v strivers campaign?

[jucyberry]

Lmao @ Mick.. I'm noticing a bit of a pattern here, when you can't counter an argument you decry it as drivel....Isn't that rather like taking your toys home prematurely?

[mjdgreg]

OK, yes because
a)as a taxpayer living in this country you have no say in what the government decides is best for the whole of society other than the ballot box every five years - its called a democracy. Why for instance as a healthy, single, cycling pacifist, should my taxes be spent on hospitals, schools, roads, railways and military? Because that is the decision of the government to do so for the benefit of more than myself.
b) to argue otherwise is to argue for ghettoisation - to say that certain people should only live in certain areas - we are all entitled to a decent standard of living - its up to government policies to give opportunities for this.

apologies for the grammar/spelling, i'm busy doing something else and need to be quick as you are not worth spending much time on

I seem to remember you using the poor grammer/spelling/need to be quick excuse before to pass off your incomprehensible twaddle as reasoned debate. Typical leftie. It's all the government's responsibility. Try taking responsibility for your own life for a change and stop burdening us taxpayers with your demands.

[mjdgreg]

Frankly I would put more blame on landlords who fix their rent impossibly high all the time knowing that the system would pay. That and the fact that so much 'social' housing stock has been sold off.

Obviously as a leftie, you don't understand the laws of supply and demand. If people moved to areas they could afford, then rents would drop as there would be less demand for housing in the higher priced areas. It is the system that is to blame for artificially higher rents as government intervention distorts the market (not the landlords). Selling off social housing is a good thing. It is much better to own your own house than to be a burden on the taxpayer.

Nothing is ever said about the fact that these houses in London..( it's always London after all for the media the world stops at the Watford gap) with their monopoly money rents should never be offered in the first place.

I'm afraid I've been unable to decipher your drivel so can't make a comment.

I can think of very few, if not anyone who if finding themselves in need of a home would say sorry all I deserve in life is a hovel.

And your point is? Who said anything about moving into a hovel? Just because rents are cheaper in certain parts of the country doesn't mean that these houses are hovels. My houses are certainly not hovels.

I'll turn it round again for you.. You advocate a form of (un) social cleansing moving anyone in need of help with their rent to places more fitting for them, (being just base scroungers) no matter how long their connection or roots in the communities they live in at the moment.......

No, I'm advocating people living where they can afford to live, that's all. It would be nice if we could all live where we wanted to but I'm afraid that is just not how real life works. Only in a leftie fantasy land can you always live wherever you want because you expect the taxpayer to always bail you out.

So, as an area financial depression where many are already struggling and jobs are not exacty plentiful, how would you feel about a mass migration of homeless people shunted your way by a government who just wants the poor to fall by the wayside and rot in a ditch?

You do talk some cobblers. Why would there be a mass migration to places like Doncaster when we don't have the jobs? Who has ever said they want the poor to rot in a ditch? Unbelievable.

This country is struggling, I cannot for the life of me see how moving people around like counters in one of those little puzzles we used to play with as kids will help...

Part of the reason the country is struggling is because the taxpayer has to pay too much housing benefit.

All it will do is create massive resentment from the locals who see any affordable housing being taken by incomers, and their communities being drained of resources that they have already paid for in their taxes...

The local businesses will welcome rich incomers. Benefit claimants are hardly likely to spend and create a thriving economy. It's because of them that resources are over stretched.

So, as I have said before.. What is the governments next step? A poster campain similar to the nazi parties in 1938...........?

There you go again using inflammatory language. Just shows how devoid you are of sensible reasoning.

Oh silly me.

At least I agree with you on that point.

[jucyberry]

Mick, Mick, Mick..Get with the programme, didn't you know that councils in the south are planning on driving the poor north and west of the southern counties?... Last time I looked Donny like most of the north is thought of as being a cheaper option than the south to live in..Heck even the government is thinking of cutting benefits ooop north because it is supposed to be so 'cheap'.........

So, by that thinking I would guess that it wouldn't be too long before the influx would find it's way to Donny..

Now, I must say i'm a tad disappointed with you too Mick, I thought we had come to some sort of understanding the other day, now you are back to being all defensive and obnoxious again... fickle little f**ker aren't you. 


ooooooooooo and one more thing,  they are hardly going to be rich incomers are they, they are moving because they can't pay their rent...   

[redwine]

Dear oh dear, mickey boy.

Your powers of deduction are well below par if you think Jucy is a "leftie". I have first hand knowledge that she uses her right hand

[Dagenham Rover]

Ok Mick lets all move to where we can afford to live, shame most jobs aren't transferable to another region.

Lets all move up north cos its cheaper  ....... oops everybodys on Benefits but not much cos the coalition is suggesting cutting them "up north" cos its cheaper "up north"  cos theres no living wage jobs only part time pin money and government invented training  type jobs .....oops all the well paid  jobs are in London (what a surprise) ....oops thats where the demand for housing is......... oops lots of demand for housing so  landlords rip off and play the system so nobody can afford to buy.

To be honest Mick I don't know the answer neither do you and this flipping coalition certainly don't

[Dagenham Rover]

 

Dear oh dear, mickey boy.

Your powers of deduction are well below par if you think Jucy is a "leftie". I have first hand knowledge that she uses her right hand

 

[mjdgreg]

mjdgre, mjdgreg, mjdgreg..Get with the programme, didn't you know that councils in the south are planning on driving the poor north and west of the southern counties?...

In your warped view of reality. I defy you to provide evidence of that ludicrous statement. I'll tell you what will happen as you don't have a clue about supply and demand. When housing benefit falls guess what will happen. Because there won't be as much money sloshing around, rents will fall. Housing will become more affordable. Cutting housing benefit is a win win situation. Eventually you might be able to move back to where you prefer to live as it will be more affordable. Government handing out as much housing benefit as landlords want is what is driving rents up. Obvious really unless you are a leftie who isn't bothered about taxpayers money and only cares if the taxpayer is subsidising their cost of living at all costs.

Last time I looked Donny like most of the north is thought of as being a cheaper option than the south to live in..Heck even the government is thinking of cutting benefits ooop north because it is supposed to be so 'cheap'.........

Donny is super cheap. There is no excuse for the vast majority of people in Donny not buying their own house. There should be hardly any need for housing benefit in Donny. Unfortunately the bulk of the population are lefties that are quite happy for the taxpayer to finance their housing costs.

So, by that thinking I would guess that it wouldn't be too long before the influx would find it's way to Donny..

If any of them do come I reckon they will buy their own home when they realise how cheap it is. I'm sure they will be gobsmacked to realise that we have so many renters when it is so obviously cheaper to buy.

Now, I must say i'm a tad disappointed with you too mjdgreg, I thought we had come to some sort of understanding the other day, now you are back to being all defensive and obnoxious again... fickle little f***er aren't you. 

The last thing I can ever be accused of is being defensive. I'm an 'all out attack' sort of person.

ooooooooooo and one more thing,  they are hardly going to be rich incomers are they, they are moving because they can't pay their rent...

I assumed you were talking of incomers to where you live. Sounds like you need to be rich to live where you live. Anyway, I'd bet any incomers from the South to Doncaster would feel quite rich when they saw just how cheap things are around here. I'm sure they'd be of the opinion that we didn't realise how lucky we were to have such cheap housing.

[mjdgreg]

Ok mjdgreg lets all move to where we can afford to live, shame most jobs aren't transferable to another region.

Most jobs are transferable. The BBC is a classic example.

Lets all move up north cos its cheaper  ....... oops everybodys on Benefits but not much cos the coalition is suggesting cutting them "up north" cos its cheaper "up north"  cos theres no living wage jobs only part time pin money and government invented training  type jobs .....oops all the well paid  jobs are in London (what a surprise) ....oops thats where the demand for housing is......... oops lots of demand for housing so  landlords rip off and play the system so nobody can afford to buy.

To be honest mjdgreg I don't know the answer neither do you and this flipping coalition certainly don't

I do know the answer. Remove all housing benefit. You would then see a dramatic fall in rents and house prices and people would be forced to move to where they could find work in an area they could afford to live in. Failing that they would have to emigrate or set up their own businesses. People would also be forced to stop spending every penny they earned and living on credit. Sorted.

[BobG]

Chaps. I was going to say that I'd give pretty good odds that good old Mick has never had the benefit of any higher education, let alone university. It's an obvious conclusion to jump to from his inability to construct any logical argument or to offer evidence in support of it, but, but, he has got one rather well practised talent which he might have picked up. He's brilliant at avoiding the issue when he hasn't got an answer. If you read this, and plenty of other threads back through, just count the number of times he changes his position and the number of times he either simply ignores a well argued and evidenced point, or, ridicules it. Both traits, and they are ceaselessly employed I promise you, provide all the evidence anyone will ever need of the shallowness of his thinking, of the lack of knowledge in his bonce and his basic unfitness to argue anything at all.

Mick: it's not rocket science. If you care to look back, you will see that Billy for one has changed my view on things. It's a question of logic, rationality and evidence. Did you ever see and use the acronym QED when you were at school? It stands for 'quod erat demonstrandum'. Look it up.

You are valueless Mick. Totally and utterly.

BobG

PS Oh, and Billy. I'm sorry. Your msg was right. I was wrong.

[MrFrost]

Ok mjdgreg lets all move to where we can afford to live, shame most jobs aren't transferable to another region.

Most jobs are transferable. The BBC is a classic example.

Lets all move up north cos its cheaper  ....... oops everybodys on Benefits but not much cos the coalition is suggesting cutting them "up north" cos its cheaper "up north"  cos theres no living wage jobs only part time pin money and government invented training  type jobs .....oops all the well paid  jobs are in London (what a surprise) ....oops thats where the demand for housing is......... oops lots of demand for housing so  landlords rip off and play the system so nobody can afford to buy.

To be honest mjdgreg I don't know the answer neither do you and this flipping coalition certainly don't

I do know the answer. Remove all housing benefit. You would then see a dramatic fall in rents and house prices and people would be forced to move to where they could find work in an area they could afford to live in. Failing that they would have to emigrate or set up their own businesses. People would also be forced to stop spending every penny they earned and living on credit. Sorted.

What a load of shite.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bob.

I did warn you...

[mjdgreg]

This thread is a classic example of where I have again won the debate hands down. I have provided numerous reasons why the housing benefits system is a joke. I have also come up with the solution to the problem.

What have you lot come up with? The only argument I can see is from jucyberry who feels that because her family have lived in an area since the 1770's then it is fine and dandy for her to carry on living in the area even if she can't afford to. She is quite happy for the taxpayer to subsidise her cost of living if needed. What a total joke.

If I can't afford to live somewhere I don't expect the taxpayer to make it affordable for me. I get off my arse and I set up some new businesses to make it affordable or I live somewhere I can afford.

That is the difference between me and most of you lot. You expect the taxpayer to look after you from cradle to grave. I expect nothing from the taxpayer and expect everything from myself. I know which is the more honourable position.

[jucyberry]

Mick you haven't won.. funnily enough this isn't a competition.

You will never see the other side of your percieved arguments because you are one dimentional in your thinking. You challenge the irrefutable,because you can't even step aside let alone step back.
There is a very thin line between tenacity and sheer bull headed ignorance, and you tread it constantly..

Oh and I have paid my taxes and as I said the other day and you grudgingly acknowledged when I am well I will do so again so don't come that old chestnut...
You say people should uproot and move as if it is as easy as just packing a handbag. when you have next to nothing financially how are you supposed to pay for removals? Not everyone has a friendly van driver you know.

You are also as I have said before extremely disengenious You know very well I was talking about Donny not Heacham.

If your gold mines, gambling thing and all your other little ventures ever fold I have a suggestion for you..Best you toddle over to Westminster and offer your services to Dave, he will need a decent spin doctor before long.....(and that isn't a compliment)

There is plenty of proof both in the news papers and on tv about what the government and councils are doing at the moment, if you don't believe the evidence of your own eyes then search a little further, you will find doccuments on line.. To be honest it is amazing what you can find when you dig a little.

[BillyStubbsTears]

July

I strongly suggest you read The Road to Wigan Pier. You'd find there's always been clever-clever t**ts knowing exactly how those on the bottom through no fault of their own should harden up. And there have always been nearly little swine ready to stick the boot into those at the bottom.

Orwell gives an example from 1935 Wigan. A 30 year old bloke with a wife and three kids brought up before the Beak for fiddling the Dole. Working a night shift delivering firewood on a horse-drawn trolley. The evidence was provided by a neighbour who saw him and grassed him up to the Magistrate. Turns out the bloke was doing a night-time flit from one slum house to another. The "firewood" was his few scraps of furniture. Mostly fruit boxes.

Orwell also gives numerous examples of middle class and well-off working class people spitting their bile at the unemployed who "preferred life on the Dole and wouldn't work if a job was offered to them." Plus ca change eh?

Of course, these bone idle scroungers were the same ones who put in 60 hour weeks in the pita and the steel works to make the weapons that won the War, once the Govt pulled its thumbs out of its arse and kick started the economy with deficit-led spending to save our very existence. THAT's how feckless and idle they were.

But you'll still get people today who know less than shit about our history being convinced that THEY know what the solution is today.

[nice one rovers]

My Dad got killed down Pit when I was ten,I used to get free school meals, that entailed standing in a separate queue to the kids whose parents could afford to pay
It was humiliating and degrading,having said that I did it because I new I was helping my mum out, if i'd kicked off about it she would have stumped up the cash from her pitance. I dont think its fair on families on benefits to make em have to use vouchers it stigmatizes the kids,speaking from experience.


[/quote]
[/quote]
I used to have to queue up for free dinner tickets in a different queue to paying kids.
Then I used to sell the ticket , at a discount to the paying kids , and go to the chippy followed by a blueberry slush puppy. F**k the system!

[mjdgreg]

You say people should uproot and move as if it is as easy as just packing a handbag. when you have next to nothing financially how are you supposed to pay for removals?

Excuses, excuses. Lets just keep on paying housing benefit to greedy landlords because:

a) Your family have always lived in the area.
b) You don't have the money to pay the removals man.
c) You like living in a nice area.

Lets ignore the fact that the country is bankrupt and is having to borrow money to pay this benefit. No, lets all live in leftie fantasy land and just keep on expecting benefits to be paid regardless of whether we can afford them or not.

[mjdgreg]

There is plenty of proof both in the news papers and on tv about what the government and councils are doing at the moment, if you don't believe the evidence of your own eyes then search a little further, you will find doccuments on line.. To be honest it is amazing what you can find when you dig a little.

In that case could you provide a link please to back up your outlandish claims. Shouldn't be too difficult. There are people on this forum who won't take you seriously if you don't produce evidence you know.