Nobody coming in yet

[steve@dcfd]

You all make it sound so simple. Click our fingers and 2 or 3 20 goal a season strikers stand up, saying me, me, me !!

Well we knew this situation was likely to happen and will have been getting things in place ready for when needed (which is now) and we've been told numerous times how it's all lined-up ready for when/if we need ffs.

Atleast we have those youngsters... Those that are so clearly ready that they've not featured this season (or very very rarely - Ball).

Why are you panicking? I know the manager isn't, he's content with his squad for this weekend and will strengthen next week when the players he wants to bring in will arrive in time for the Yeovil game. Not only that but Hume and Syers will be available for that game too. Sounds to me like we will be at more than full strength very shortly.

But surely we should be bringing in loanees for Mondays game if Syers, Hume, Brown,Keegan are not fit for Monday. We need a result from this game we do not want to lose three out of four.

[Belle Vue Popside]

You all make it sound so simple. Click our fingers and 2 or 3 20 goal a season strikers stand up, saying me, me, me !!

Well we knew this situation was likely to happen and will have been getting things in place ready for when needed (which is now) and we've been told numerous times how it's all lined-up ready for when/if we need ffs.

Atleast we have those youngsters... Those that are so clearly ready that they've not featured this season (or very very rarely - Ball).

Why are you panicking? I know the manager isn't, he's content with his squad for this weekend and will strengthen next week when the players he wants to bring in will arrive in time for the Yeovil game. Not only that but Hume and Syers will be available for that game too. Sounds to me like we will be at more than full strength very shortly.

Because we were told time and time again that we will bring in loans to cover when we need them... We do need them now. The truth of it is that our small squad has been hit with fitness problems and injuries these past couple of weeks.

I fear about us holding back on securing loans and instead trying to pin all our hopes on players coming back from inury! It's not served us well in the past and has ended up causing us more trouble than good.  Hume and Syers have suffered with a few injuries this season and don't think rushing them back at this stage, is for the good of us.

It's alright saying these loans players will arrive in time to play V Yeovil but we have a game before that, unless we've forgotten. Not that i believe they wont be signed before yeovil either, but we've also been told stuff about signings happening already this season, only for it to not happen (for whatever reasons).

We aren't helping ourselves one bit.

[albie]

Brian Flynn spoke about the younger players in the DFP;
http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/doncaster-rovers-flynn-i-m-ready-to-give-youth-a-chance-to-shine-1-5412388

He also mentions that Sinclair needs to up his game, it will be interesting to see if Ball gets in front of Sinclair for Crawley, unless a loanee comes in.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

We do need them now.

In your opinion. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be upset if they brought someone in but, we all have our opinions on which position needs filling first.

If Syers, Hume and Keegan are due back imminently, then why rush to sign someone just to satisfy the thirst of the supporters. If you rush things and make the wrong choice, then your lumbered with someone for at least a month. I know you're all big fans of Emile Sinclair !!

We don't know what they've tried behind the scenes or whether they've been knocked back by A N other.

I know the RIWT campaign is working but we haven't got to the point where we can have a poll on which players and when we can get them in.

Let's keep calm. It'll all come out in the wash.

[Belle Vue Popside]

We do need them now.

In your opinion. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be upset if they brought someone in but, we all have our opinions on which position needs filling first.

If Syers, Hume and Keegan are due back imminently, then why rush to sign someone just to satisfy the thirst of the supporters. If you rush things and make the wrong choice, then your lumbered with someone for at least a month. I know you're all big fans of Emile Sinclair !!

We don't know what they've tried behind the scenes or whether they've been knocked back by A N other.

I know the RIWT campaign is working but we haven't got to the point where we can have a poll on which players and when we can get them in.

Let's keep calm. It'll all come out in the wash.

You talk of rushing... What about rushing players back from injury instead of bringing in these loanees to help us out?? Flynn wouldn't have been trying to get 2 in before Crawley, if he didn't think we needed them.

Oh and it's certainly not about thirst of signings (for me)... I was one who said a few weeks back that we should go with what we've got and save for the summer... Barring injuries. Like i said, we aren't really helping ourselves here.

[RedJ]

I wouldn't be too surprised if we didn't actually see a new striker going by Flynn's comments on Ball.

Obviously you can't read that from that 100%, I know, but perhaps worth thinking about.

What's he said about Ball like? Be nice if he got a chance in the league.

Thanks Albie, saves me finding the link - http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/doncaster-rovers-flynn-i-m-ready-to-give-youth-a-chance-to-shine-1-5412388

[hoolahoop]

I see the glass is half empty again!!

Hoola, I'm disappointed. I would have expected better than to accuse me of fobbing off. The truth of the matter is and always has been that the club wanted promotion and still want promotion, why wouldn't they? There is no business plan that sets the club up to 'nearly get promoted', how ludicrous! What they have done is not publicly state how ambitious they wanted to be so as not to pressurise any particular manager, but privately that was and still is the aim. The stadium and its requirements have no impact on the playing side at all. And just to, once again, state that we have the 3rd highest wage bill in this division, if that isn't a commitment to perform at the highest level in this division then what is? If you didn't want promotion you would cut that in half and save yourself the problem of having to foot the gap between expenditure and income.

Right first I'll answer your first point ......you do harp on about the money to be made in the Championship to back up any accusation that the club is not going for promotion. If you don't think of it as a 'fob off' then I do despite your protestations. We couldn't get players out of here fast enough last season even one's we needed for a promotion 'push' i.e. Copps.
Here the deeds are NOT matching the apparent aspirations and telling me that we have the 3rd highest payroll is somnething I would dispute........you never give the figures to back this up do you ? Knowledge is power isn't it ? If this is the case and you can point me in the right direction to concede that point then I will happily apologise to you and the forum on this issue . I doubt that you can.

As for my point on the stadium, it is obvious that having taken over the reins that as a club we would want to stabilise, monitor and enhance the income streams from it before persuing bigger things. I wouldn't expect that our ''owners'' once again want to get involved in chucking large amounts of their money into the club especially when bearing in mind the new FFP rules or do they ?

As a final point, I understood that our payroll was governed somewhat by the contracts that we had entered into with players whilst at a higher level and that would and did dictate a higher figure than we were comfortable with. I take it you are now party to all the financial 'ins and outs' of our owner's business these days ; it's refreshing to know that at last we have a VSC Director  that knows exactly to the £ how the ''Owners'' are running the business not only that but also party to what every other club is paying their players. Presumably these payroll figures are available for general viewing too ?

Btw the glass is not halfful currently it's running on empty . Where are the loanees we desperately need to push on , you know the one's that were all apparently lined up?

Reality Martin here not soundbites. 

[grayx]

If Hume and Syers are back that'll be like 2 new signings in itself to be fair. If it turns out they aren't fit then questions will have to be asked but the side we'll hopefully be putting out will be good enough to win the game. Have faith! We're having a blip, it's getting a bit tiresome hearing how doomed we are every time we lose (and even when we win sometimes!) to be honest. It means when there actually is a problem people will be less willing to listen because they'll just write you off as whingers, ie the Blades fans.

No it wont. If Hume and Syers ARE available, its highly unlikely theyl be match fit or able to play the full 90 mins. Here lies the danger in rushing players back/playing ill players because the squad isnt big enough.

[hoolahoop]

If Hume and Syers are back that'll be like 2 new signings in itself to be fair. If it turns out they aren't fit then questions will have to be asked but the side we'll hopefully be putting out will be good enough to win the game. Have faith! We're having a blip, it's getting a bit tiresome hearing how doomed we are every time we lose (and even when we win sometimes!) to be honest. It means when there actually is a problem people will be less willing to listen because they'll just write you off as whingers, ie the Blades fans.

No it wont. If Hume and Syers ARE available, its highly unlikely theyl be match fit or able to play the full 90 mins. Here lies the danger in rushing players back/playing ill players because the squad isnt big enough.

Some don't get it do they ? We've been here before and in the words of the great man ''he who hesitates is lost Rodders''.

[Belle-Vue-Ghost]

I wouldnt be surprised to se Gary Madine come in soon.  If the twitter conversation between him and David Cotterill in the last 30 mins is anythin to go by anyway 

[MachoMadness]

If Hume and Syers are back that'll be like 2 new signings in itself to be fair. If it turns out they aren't fit then questions will have to be asked but the side we'll hopefully be putting out will be good enough to win the game. Have faith! We're having a blip, it's getting a bit tiresome hearing how doomed we are every time we lose (and even when we win sometimes!) to be honest. It means when there actually is a problem people will be less willing to listen because they'll just write you off as whingers, ie the Blades fans.

No it wont. If Hume and Syers ARE available, its highly unlikely theyl be match fit or able to play the full 90 mins. Here lies the danger in rushing players back/playing ill players because the squad isnt big enough.

Maybe they are match fit now, but they weren't last week, which is why they didn't play. We don't know what goes on in the treatment room.

[silent majority]

Hoola,

To answer your points. Firstly I don't 'harp' on about the money to be made in the Championship, but I do point it out as a fact when people question how we can afford to get promotion. The simple maths are that the solidarity payments are £6m more for a Championship club than for League 1. Then you have to factor in extra gate receipts, sponsorship, advertising, corporate take, commercial rates, and byes into FA Cup rounds and the like. The extra money soon can mount up with a decent CEO in place and a good commercial team around him. How you measure the club trimming its wage bill for a season in Lg 1 as lacking in aspiration for promotion is beyond me, apart from your logic that we should keep them all if we wanted to go straight back to the Championship. That's the economics of the madhouse, and has proven to be false so far this season as DRFC push for promotion with a wage bill of less than half last seasons. You'll have to enlighten me as to how you square that circle.

I can also support my statement that we have the third highest budget in this division, and I've put the figures on here a few times. Up until  just before Christmas we had a budget this season of about £4m, the figures are common knowledge, but I don't understand why you would dispute that. Do you think I would purposely lie about something like that? What exactly is the point you are making here? The deeds don't match the aspiration? In what way? We don't have a big enough squad? Maybe not, but we went for quality over quantity and that point has been made several times. What concerns me more is that you would question my honesty. If you, and anybody else thinks that's the case then I'll stop posting, end of.

Your stadium point is completely misplaced, Gavin has moved the income on well enough so that it contributes to the playing squad and isn't a drain on the club or its owners, quite the reverse.

I don't understand your other point about me knowing the financial ins and outs of the owners, I'm not party to that, but I do have conversations with the club and I ask the questions any fan would ask. Most of the information I have is public knowledge, don't forget that DRFC have to publish their accounts like everyone else does.

As for the loanees, I've already mentioned elsewhere that we will have several next week, after the Crawley game and before the Yeovil one.

I do try to pass on the right kind of information that I know you'll like and that the club won't be upset if I do so. I like to think I get the balance right.

[hoolahoop]

Hoola,

To answer your points. Firstly I don't 'harp' on about the money to be made in the Championship, but I do point it out as a fact when people question how we can afford to get promotion. The simple maths are that the solidarity payments are £6m more for a Championship club than for League 1. Then you have to factor in extra gate receipts, sponsorship, advertising, corporate take, commercial rates, and byes into FA Cup rounds and the like. The extra money soon can mount up with a decent CEO in place and a good commercial team around him. How you measure the club trimming its wage bill for a season in Lg 1 as lacking in aspiration for promotion is beyond me, apart from your logic that we should keep them all if we wanted to go straight back to the Championship. That's the economics of the madhouse, and has proven to be false so far this season as DRFC push for promotion with a wage bill of less than half last seasons. You'll have to enlighten me as to how you square that circle.

I can also support my statement that we have the third highest budget in this division, and I've put the figures on here a few times. Up until  just before Christmas we had a budget this season of about £4m, the figures are common knowledge, but I don't understand why you would dispute that. Do you think I would purposely lie about something like that? What exactly is the point you are making here? The deeds don't match the aspiration? In what way? We don't have a big enough squad? Maybe not, but we went for quality over quantity and that point has been made several times. What concerns me more is that you would question my honesty. If you, and anybody else thinks that's the case then I'll stop posting, end of.

Your stadium point is completely misplaced, Gavin has moved the income on well enough so that it contributes to the playing squad and isn't a drain on the club or its owners, quite the reverse.

I don't understand your other point about me knowing the financial ins and outs of the owners, I'm not party to that, but I do have conversations with the club and I ask the questions any fan would ask. Most of the information I have is public knowledge, don't forget that DRFC have to publish their accounts like everyone else does.

As for the loanees, I've already mentioned elsewhere that we will have several next week, after the Crawley game and before the Yeovil one.

I do try to pass on the right kind of information that I know you'll like and that the club won't be upset if I do so. I like to think I get the balance right.

Right where do we start Martin, I'll keep this short and sweet so that we don't bore each other and the rest of the forum to death. These are the main points in your response that I have a problem with:-
Paragraph 1) - you have mentioned the extra income on more than a few occasions and I am well aware and have never disputed that the income is higher but unfortunately you have to dig deep in the short term to realise the medium/long term benefits providing you have invested adequately in the first instance. Please point me to the part of my post that states we should have kept every player from last season ? I am well aware that we couldn't and you insult my intelligence by suggesting that I believed that we ever could. However our inability to fill the bench despite the 'quality' argument was alarming and we have now shown there was good cause for alarm.

Paragraph 2- Now you have really pissed me off here. There was no accusation that you had lied if there was I would have told you so! However we are continually told these figures by not only you but the Owners and have yet to see figures to this effect...........who compiles them or is this just rumour and where can you get this info from ? I want to know how much Coventry, Blades, Bournemouth, Swndon, Brentford etc . spend on average, why because I'm bloody interested in how that relates to their current performances, financial woes etc. and not to 'debunk' you. You know me personally or at least I thought you did....I'm an analytical person by nature.

Paragraph 3- Your response to my statement re. establishing the tenancy and reaping the rewards of Gavin's work on the stadium - I am well aware that GB has worked wonders with the P & L's on the stadium however my point was that an established and enhanced income from the stadium revenue could only help fund the team in the future. I am well aware that he has turned that around in the short term but a tiny part of me can't help but think and hope for that matter that our Owners don't have to dig too deep too soon. This may well be too soon imo despite the fact that I want to see us perform at a higher level.

Just a couple of final points, I am not party to the current accounts of Patienceform and therefore have no way of guaging how well the club is currently doing apart from the info that you passed onto the forum a goodwhile back and they weren't disputed at the time.

Good news that some loanees are coming in and please keep posting ........we both want the same things i.e. A healthy, happy and successful club for the future, for the fans and by the fans IRWT

[BobG]

I should give up Hools. Although you didn't use the word 'lie' in your first paragraph, that's the meaning that came across, very strongly, to me. Although Martin and I have had our ups and downs (almost violently so!) I really don't think that when a guy, elected by us members, is doing his level best to keep us informed without breaking confidences, he should be chased from pillar to post. If you don't like what he says and does, the time to do something about it is when re-election looms. Sniping will just drive him away. And we will all be the poorer for it.

As fort wage levels at other clubs, try looking in Companies House.

Cheers

BobG

[hoolahoop]

I should give up Hools. Although you didn't use the word 'lie' in your first paragraph, that's the meaning that came across, very strongly, to me. Although Martin and I have had our ups and downs (almost violently so!) I really don't think that when a guy, elected by us members, is doing his level best to keep us informed without breaking confidences, he should be chased from pillar to post. If you don't like what he says and does, the time to do something about it is when re-election looms. Sniping will just drive him away. And we will all be the poorer for it.

As fort wage levels at other clubs, try looking in Companies House.

Cheers

BobG

If that's how you read it Bob then I must be more careful in future in how I phrase things. I trust your judgement Bob and apologise to Martin if that's the way it comes across.
However I still think it's too soon for promotion and my point stands re. being better prepared in future.
Bob how can I find out just how much the likes of Bournemouth and Swindon are currently spending on their team this year as I've searched everywhere. All I can find are figures from 2010/11, current financial yearly accounts haven't been posted yet ?

[DonnyBazR0ver]

If I can add my two peneth for what it's worth. Martin does not toe the company line and he does his best to tell us how it is.  Sometimes we may not like what we hear but we all have to live with it. We have no choice.

One thing is for sure, and that's Martin, Rob, Rob, Nathan etc, have had more influence on the club on our behalf than any representation in the past.

Martin may seem to get frustrated from time to time with the degree of probing he gets on this forum but at least he's big enough to see beyond that and maintains, (not compromises) his good relationships with key personnel at the club. With Martin you don't get soundbites, you get solid information, or at least as good as the information coming from the top man at the club.

Some of you are interrogating the wrong man!

[Filo]

Jesus, a blip in form and the conspiracy theorists come out in force!

[Rovers Return]

Good god Martin! You have to seriously consider why you bother. You spend too much time on this. Go and get your life back!

[hoolahoop]

Jesus, a blip in form and the conspiracy theorists come out in force!

Filo it's not about conspiracies purely realities. The signs were that we weren't looking at us returning immediately to the 2nd flight. Just look at the squad lists in the programmes earlier this season and come to that throughout the season ; quite simply it didn't suggest that a promotion ''push'' was on as a balanced and reasonably deep squad would have been the way forward. We have struggled these last few weeks purely because of that and there is no point burying our heads in the sand re' this problem. Exhaustion, lack of competition and injuries have and are  taking their toll.
It would be entirely reasonable and understandable had we have settled for stabilising the club after the debacle last season and the continued talk of having to cut the payroll only served to emphasise that was the aim.
Perhaps the surprising early results (given the squad size) encouraged the club into a major rethink . However if that is the case or was always the intention then we shouldn't be 'firefighting' but being pro-active. I know Martin has stated earlier that reinforcements are on their way and for that the Owners and BF should be applauded but is it perhaps 3-4 weeks too late and could we possibly be shutting the gate after the horse has bolted ? Obviously it is impossible to tell but the next 3/4 results will give us the answer to that question.
As for the good work that Martin and the VSC have been doing recently well that has been recognised by me all along. Rovers Return you are incorrect in your inference that this work does go unrecognised by me and others as I have continually thrown my support behind the efforts of the IRWT initiatives and am well aware of Martin's  and the committees passionate involvement in these initiatives.
Rovers Return imo MO'H would have no life without the VSC and the FSF..........that IS his life.

[Alickismyhero]

Having followed the thread I side with Hools who presented a well thought out respectful posts.

[Filo]

Having followed the thread I side with Hools who presented a well thought out respectful posts.

I disagree that it was well thought out, he questioned Martin`s honesty and integrity, maybe not intentionally, but that`s how it came across

[hoolahoop]

Having followed the thread I side with Hools who presented a well thought out respectful posts.

I disagree that it was well thought out, he questioned Martin`s honesty and integrity, maybe not intentionally, but that`s how it came across

No I didn't question either his honesty or integrity merely his information and where he got it from and could he make it available to me. i have conceded that in retospect that it could have read like that but that was NOT the intention hence the immediate apology.
Are you preparing the spit to skewer me on Filo
Btw which part of my post don't you think was well thought out. ? On second thoughts don't bother.....it will be all of them 

[silent majority]

Hoola,

We're going over old ground again here so I'll be brief. The information about players budgets has to be lodged with the FL, and its available to all clubs. Because of that I'm not prepared to give too much detail, but it all becomes public at some point. Here's a few items I've posted previously;

The highest budget in this league is £4.9m the next is £4.2m
One club has a budget of less than £1m
Twelve have budgets of less than £2m
The average wage is less than £100k, we pay substantially more

To suggest that we were never going to go for promotion with figures like that can't be taken seriously.

Here's a link to a blogger friend of mine who takes this information and provides a level of detail I can only dream about. This is one he did on Sheffield Utd a couple of seasons ago. It's useful because we were in the same division at the time and its interesting how we competed at that time.

http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Sheffield%20United

[silent majority]

Having followed the thread I side with Hools who presented a well thought out respectful posts.

Why am I not surprised?   

[hoolahoop]

Thanks for that mate, I'll have a good look at it. Btw I was trying to say that I wouldn't have blamed the club if they had settled for consolidation this season all things being equal and I'm not sure that came across in my posts. Many businesses taking on new premises would have but if they were indeed seeking out an immediate return well then that..........takes some guts.
Where you watching the game on Monday or are you able to go ? 

[silent majority]

I can't go. We have a IRWT meeting with the club on Monday, I need to do my day job too and my son has just arrived from NY today, so cue family celebrations.

[wilts rover]

When John Ryan did his fans forum at the beginning of the season those of us who couldn't go were asked on here if we had any questions we wanted answered. Mine was 'what is a realistic aim and finish for this season?' I seem to remember the answer was top 10. Which I was delighted with and thought we would struggle to do. So the squad was assembled and budgeted for the top 10 - not promotion in particular - and that was all published on here.

Of course the season has moved on apace and we have (in my opinion) significantly overachieved to a fantastic degree where we are in with a real chance of automatic promotion. Again in my opinion we wont do it with skill and beautiful football, unless we bring in five quality players, we will do it with graft, team moral and hard work, that is what this group of players does best.

We have brought in/back one significant player that some posters are convieniently forgetting about, Coppinger. Is it just a coincidence that results have fallen off since he has been back in the side? Or has it unbalanced the side? Which is the danger of bringing in loan players too - they might not have the effect you hope for. What we require is the right players.

And I hope to be not taking anyone's side, my opinion is my own and thats all it is. Thanks to Hoola & SM for putting yours forward too.

[Alickismyhero]

Having followed the thread I side with Hools who presented a well thought out respectful posts.

Why am I not surprised?   


Why are you not surprised? I found Hools questions very interesting and deserved answering and provided he did it in a respectful way I see no problem. I do think at times you take a very superior position and put people down because of the inside knowledge you have but thats perhaps just the way you come over to me an outsider who is very interested in our club.
I would have thought that the position you hold those sort of questions should be expected and shouldn't be viewed as a personal attack.

[silent majority]

That's just my style, nothing intended against anyone.

However I'll always answer questions if they're asked in the right way and so long as I'm not going over ground I've been over several times this season. The question of the budget and if we intended to go for promotion and why are the club not investing has been done to death on here time after time.

You make it sound as though I'm lucky to hold 'this position'. Those that know me realise that I'm doing this despite the intense pressure on my time, I'm certainly not doing it for the love of it, I'm doing it because a) I can, and b) because it needed doing.

[steve@dcfd]

Question for SM you said that Hume and Syers will be available for that game too. I understand that means ready for Yeovil not ready for Crawley. Therefore a game we should aiming for three points we will have no new loanees and still four or five players injured.