Sean O'Driscoll

[BillyStubbsTears]

Savvy.

I'm bemused. Which stars did we sell at the end of the 10/11 season? Byron Webster? Steve Brooker? Wayne Thomas?

I've just set out the numbers that suggest the extent to which the club was supporting the manager. Somewhere close to average wage bill on gates that were around half the divisional average. That is phenomenal support from the Board.

If the manager chose to invest that money in a squad that had no better goalkeeper than Gary Woods,  and was packed full of players who started the next season as decent League 1 triers (Hayter, Dumbuya, Lockwood, Bennett, Keegan, Brown) League 2 triers (Hird, Oster, Sullivan) or barely worthy of a shirt in English football at all (Barnes, Chambers, Wilson) while chucking most of his eggs in one Billy Sharp-shaped basket,  then his I have little sympathy for him.

Look at it this way if we had a competitive Championship level wage bill (O'Driscoll's words) how many competitive, Championship level players did we start last season off with? Players who could cut it under any other manager?

Sharp, Friend - above average Championship players. Stock almost makes that list, but he was a busted flush by then.

Middling Championship players. Coppinger, O'Connor

Bottom end of Championship players: Brown, M Woods (but again, crocked), Hayter, Chambers (crocked), Gillett, Spurr. Possibly Oster. Possibly Keegan & Martis at a big stretch, but again, crocked.

Players who by no stretch of the imagination would be able to make a living in the Championship under any other manager. Hird, G Woods, Sullivan, Lockwood, Dumbuya, Barnes, Bennett, Wilson, Naylor.

That's a hell of a lot of below-average Championship level players for something near average Championship wages.

[The Red Baron]

Karenza seems to know both Sean and his daughter very well.

[StocktonRover]

If only there was an ignore thread button - then we wouldn't have tp trawl through all this boring crap every couple of months.

Its in the past - let it go.

So boring and dull that you still feel the need to make a contribution!!! Well done you!!!

Savvy - I'm not contributing to the boring raking up of historic crap - I'm suggesting that there is little to be gained by it other than to reignite divisions in our fan base.

Alick, likewise - my comment about an ignore button is rhetoric to reinforcer what I say above.

No more to be said by me - I'm looking FORWARD to Coventry on Friday.

[pubteam]

Haha. I notice "Karenza" has picked up on my post about her being a "random person". I stand by it. Most Rovers fans don't know who she is, as far as I know. She could be anyone as far as most people are concerned.

And she's written a few tweets mocking/slagging off Dean Saunders. Suggests an awful lot of bitterness to me!!

[BobG]

Stop bumming the guy. He never cared about us. He tried time and time again to get away from us.

It's fascinating watching ones own, and others, prejudices, opinions, thought processes isn't it? How do you know Sean 'tried time and time again to get away from us?' There are at least two other perfectly rational alternative explanations for what went on with those jobs. I don't know which explanation is right. But I try, hard, not to let my own dogma make my mind up for me. Like I said, for the countervailing view to that expressed by the Rovers, Karenza is well worth taking seriously. It's not for me to publicise who she is and what she does - but she's well informed I promise you.

BobG

[wilts rover]

With regard to the wages, didnt we go up with a wage bill of something like £3m and come back down again with one of around £9m. A lot of that going to the same players.

Thats your problem. The board did back Sean, to pay increased wages to keep players (many of whom) who proved not to be worth it. Thats without having biggest medical room in the divison. Whose decision was it to agree those contract extensions & pay rises? Who chose the medical staff and fitness regime? Why didnt he develop any younger players/promising ones from lower leagues? What discussions went on in the boardroom as regards these questions?

Saen O'Driscoll is the best Rovers manager by far in my lifetime (and probably will be for the rest of my lifetime) I have never met him but he always seemed a decent bloke & I wish him well, even at Bristol City. But I prefer to support the board, current managment & players of DRFC (as we could do a heck of a lot worse as our opponents on Friday are demonstrating) and think that this pro-Sean = anti-John Ryan is doing no-one at all any favours, particuarly those two people.

[DonnyOsmond]

Karenza has divided the fans again. Hmm.

[Savvy]

Savvy.

I'm bemused. Which stars did we sell at the end of the 10/11 season? Byron Webster? Steve Brooker? Wayne Thomas?

I've just set out the numbers that suggest the extent to which the club was supporting the manager. Somewhere close to average wage bill on gates that were around half the divisional average. That is phenomenal support from the Board.

If the manager chose to invest that money in a squad that had no better goalkeeper than Gary Woods,  and was packed full of players who started the next season as decent League 1 triers (Hayter, Dumbuya, Lockwood, Bennett, Keegan, Brown) League 2 triers (Hird, Oster, Sullivan) or barely worthy of a shirt in English football at all (Barnes, Chambers, Wilson) while chucking most of his eggs in one Billy Sharp-shaped basket,  then his I have little sympathy for him.

Look at it this way if we had a competitive Championship level wage bill (O'Driscoll's words) how many competitive, Championship level players did we start last season off with? Players who could cut it under any other manager?

Sharp, Friend - above average Championship players. Stock almost makes that list, but he was a busted flush by then.

Middling Championship players. Coppinger, O'Connor

Bottom end of Championship players: Brown, M Woods (but again, crocked), Hayter, Chambers (crocked), Gillett, Spurr. Possibly Oster. Possibly Keegan & Martis at a big stretch, but again, crocked.

Players who by no stretch of the imagination would be able to make a living in the Championship under any other manager. Hird, G Woods, Sullivan, Lockwood, Dumbuya, Barnes, Bennett, Wilson, Naylor.

That's a hell of a lot of below-average Championship level players for something near average Championship wages.

Bill,

By that point all the "Crown jewels" had been previously sold and not replaced, despite the board indicating to the contrary after the Mills sale!

Insofar as phenomenal support is concerned, if the figures you quote are indeed correct and indeed are "average" figures, does it not follow that the average amount is the least a manager in that division should expect? It matters not who mentioned the words "competitive wage bill" if the stated aim at that time was championship consolidation, then clearly it was insufficient perhaps he was trying to show a bit more unity with the board than they were prepared to show him?

[Filo]

Karenza has divided the fans again. Hmm.

The fans will always be divided when there`s some folk unwilling to let go of the past and blindly follow the faith, it`s like having Jehovahs Witness knocking on your door preaching to you every month!

[RedJ]

Karenza has divided the fans again. Hmm.

The fans will always be divided when there`s some folk unwilling to let go of the past and blindly follow the faith, it`s like having Jehovahs Witness knocking on your door preaching to you every month!

This.

I can't understand why we can't let it go. It's been and gone, done with. Finito. We're on our second manager since ffs - we're even rid of the one half of us hated just because he wasn't SO'D.

This is all we f**king need at this point in the season. Very interesting timing...

[Alickismyhero]

Stop bumming the guy. He never cared about us. He tried time and time again to get away from us.

It's fascinating watching ones own, and others, prejudices, opinions, thought processes isn't it? How do you know Sean 'tried time and time again to get away from us?' There are at least two other perfectly rational alternative explanations for what went on with those jobs. I don't know which explanation is right. But I try, hard, not to let my own dogma make my mind up for me. Like I said, for the countervailing view to that expressed by the Rovers, Karenza is well worth taking seriously. It's not for me to publicise who she is and what she does - but she's well informed I promise you.

BobG

Bob why the secrecy? All I can work out is she is involved with sailing, is a journalist, knows Sean very well, could be related? I suspect its his daughter and she obviously reads this forum. If you are reading this Karenza I can see how you were upset at some of the comments made in the past and its the main reason I try to correct the comments I know to be inaccurate.

In general I don't think Karenza has divided the forum. No one has made adverse comments about the manager or team, in fact I will repeat what I have said The King is dead long live BF. We have to move on but that does not mean sweeping it under the carpet Sean and Richard were treated badly but their side of the story was never heard "but it is now" Its called justice.

[silent majority]

As it happens I know exactly who she is and the role she played at DRFC. I wouldn't disagree with some of her comments, she may well be perfectly correct in what she says. However, even she wouldn't argue that her colours are firmly nailed to one mast in particular, and that hardly means her views are objective, quite obviously not.

I would let this particular thread die, its been done to death umpteen times, and for every pro SO'D statement I could find another 3 or 4 contrasting opinions, it's not helping anyone.

[Chris Black come back]

I hope we didn't treat him in the way that was alleged. With no massive financial support and a tiny support base we have to rely on the wafer thin advantages we can make ourselves which add that little bit extra over other clubs and which mean we can attract that little bit extra quality e.g. treating people well, Chairman standing by manager, being clear and honest in our dealings etc. All cost nowt but would for instance make us a better option than a laughing stock like Blackburn Rovers at present.

SOD was a truly great manager for us but not infallible: Tomi Ameobi, Barnsley away debacle v ten men, the Reading capitulation, throwing his toys out the pram after a few injuries and leaving us to get crushed 6-0 at home by Ipswich, total unwillingness to give youth a chance, the Burnley and Blades merry dances he led us.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Savvy.

I'm bemused. Which stars did we sell at the end of the 10/11 season? Byron Webster? Steve Brooker? Wayne Thomas?

I've just set out the numbers that suggest the extent to which the club was supporting the manager. Somewhere close to average wage bill on gates that were around half the divisional average. That is phenomenal support from the Board.

If the manager chose to invest that money in a squad that had no better goalkeeper than Gary Woods,  and was packed full of players who started the next season as decent League 1 triers (Hayter, Dumbuya, Lockwood, Bennett, Keegan, Brown) League 2 triers (Hird, Oster, Sullivan) or barely worthy of a shirt in English football at all (Barnes, Chambers, Wilson) while chucking most of his eggs in one Billy Sharp-shaped basket,  then his I have little sympathy for him.

Look at it this way if we had a competitive Championship level wage bill (O'Driscoll's words) how many competitive, Championship level players did we start last season off with? Players who could cut it under any other manager?

Sharp, Friend - above average Championship players. Stock almost makes that list, but he was a busted flush by then.

Middling Championship players. Coppinger, O'Connor

Bottom end of Championship players: Brown, M Woods (but again, crocked), Hayter, Chambers (crocked), Gillett, Spurr. Possibly Oster. Possibly Keegan & Martis at a big stretch, but again, crocked.

Players who by no stretch of the imagination would be able to make a living in the Championship under any other manager. Hird, G Woods, Sullivan, Lockwood, Dumbuya, Barnes, Bennett, Wilson, Naylor.

That's a hell of a lot of below-average Championship level players for something near average Championship wages.

Bill,

By that point all the "Crown jewels" had been previously sold and not replaced, despite the board indicating to the contrary after the Mills sale!

Insofar as phenomenal support is concerned, if the figures you quote are indeed correct and indeed are "average" figures, does it not follow that the average amount is the least a manager in that division should expect? It matters not who mentioned the words "competitive wage bill" if the stated aim at that time was championship consolidation, then clearly it was insufficient perhaps he was trying to show a bit more unity with the board than they were prepared to show him?

Savvy.
No. Transfer fees are for fools or the wealthy in the post-Bosman environment. What matters for a smaller club is wages. Can you attract and retain high-quality players by the wages that you offer.  O'Driscoll, by his own admission, had a competitive Championship-level wage budget. But we ended up relying on Gary Woods, Sam Hird and Mustapha Dumbaya.

You say the wage bill was clearly insufficient. But if the figures I gave earlier are remotely accurate (and I have no idea if they are - just numbers put together from snippets on here) then the problem to me is not that the wage bill was insufficient to keep us in the Championship. It's how the bill was spent.

By the way, and for the record, I said at the time that O'Driscoll was sacked that I was surprised and I thought it was a bit premature. Even though I thought he had left us threadbare in many places, I reckoned he had earned the right to show that he could pull another rabbit out of the hat once the injured players came back to fitness.

[Savvy]

Savvy.

I'm bemused. Which stars did we sell at the end of the 10/11 season? Byron Webster? Steve Brooker? Wayne Thomas?

I've just set out the numbers that suggest the extent to which the club was supporting the manager. Somewhere close to average wage bill on gates that were around half the divisional average. That is phenomenal support from the Board.

If the manager chose to invest that money in a squad that had no better goalkeeper than Gary Woods,  and was packed full of players who started the next season as decent League 1 triers (Hayter, Dumbuya, Lockwood, Bennett, Keegan, Brown) League 2 triers (Hird, Oster, Sullivan) or barely worthy of a shirt in English football at all (Barnes, Chambers, Wilson) while chucking most of his eggs in one Billy Sharp-shaped basket,  then his I have little sympathy for him.

Look at it this way if we had a competitive Championship level wage bill (O'Driscoll's words) how many competitive, Championship level players did we start last season off with? Players who could cut it under any other manager?

Sharp, Friend - above average Championship players. Stock almost makes that list, but he was a busted flush by then.

Middling Championship players. Coppinger, O'Connor

Bottom end of Championship players: Brown, M Woods (but again, crocked), Hayter, Chambers (crocked), Gillett, Spurr. Possibly Oster. Possibly Keegan & Martis at a big stretch, but again, crocked.

Players who by no stretch of the imagination would be able to make a living in the Championship under any other manager. Hird, G Woods, Sullivan, Lockwood, Dumbuya, Barnes, Bennett, Wilson, Naylor.

That's a hell of a lot of below-average Championship level players for something near average Championship wages.

Bill,

By that point all the "Crown jewels" had been previously sold and not replaced, despite the board indicating to the contrary after the Mills sale!

Insofar as phenomenal support is concerned, if the figures you quote are indeed correct and indeed are "average" figures, does it not follow that the average amount is the least a manager in that division should expect? It matters not who mentioned the words "competitive wage bill" if the stated aim at that time was championship consolidation, then clearly it was insufficient perhaps he was trying to show a bit more unity with the board than they were prepared to show him?

Savvy.
No. Transfer fees are for fools or the wealthy in the post-Bosman environment. What matters for a smaller club is wages. Can you attract and retain high-quality players by the wages that you offer.  O'Driscoll, by his own admission, had a competitive Championship-level wage budget. But we ended up relying on Gary Woods, Sam Hird and Mustapha Dumbaya.

You say the wage bill was clearly insufficient. But if the figures I gave earlier are remotely accurate (and I have no idea if they are - just numbers put together from snippets on here) then the problem to me is not that the wage bill was insufficient to keep us in the Championship. It's how the bill was spent.

By the way, and for the record, I said at the time that O'Driscoll was sacked that I was surprised and I thought it was a bit premature. Even though I thought he had left us threadbare in many places, I reckoned he had earned the right to show that he could pull another rabbit out of the hat once the injured players came back to fitness.

Bill,

Its a good job that there were a few fools around to buy/pick off some of our better players or no doubt we'd have been relegated sooner than we were!!!

Can you attract and retain high quality players on the wages you offer, clearly not in the case of Wellens who told JR that his heart wouldn't be in it the following year if he wasn't allowed to move to Leicester on 12k a week.

Whether the wage bill was competitive or not, clearly there wasn't sufficient funds that were enough to attract replacements of sufficient quality to keep us in the division were there? But of course, that would be O'Driscolls fault wouldn't it? I'm not sure what you mean about your figures being remotely accurate, it sounds like a contradiction in terms to me, but here's another point to mull over, don't forget we were competing against established Championship teams at the time and I stand to be corrected but I'm sure that at one point the league contained only 3 teams who hadn't performed at Premiership level.  If the stated aim, was Championship consolidation, surely the funds available to cement that position needed to be more than "competitive" or average? I'll say it again, if we are relying on quotes from the past "And when we get to the championship, we won't be there to make the numbers up" Any idea who made that statement Bill?

[RobTheRover]

I dont know who is scoring points here, but they must have ten ticked off by now.

Anyway, in business people are hired and fired all the time.  Football is a revolving door business at most clubs, but not ours.  I thought most posters understood that, but clearly not. 

I bet Sean is regretting saying a damn word right now.  Bad PR.  You'd have thought he would have had some advice.

[wilts rover]

I dont know who is scoring points here, but they must have ten ticked off by now.

Anyway, in business people are hired and fired all the time.  Football is a revolving door business at most clubs, but not ours.  I thought most posters understood that, but clearly not. 

I bet Sean is regretting saying a damn word right now.  Bad PR.  You'd have thought he would have had some advice.

He'll find plenty on here Rob......along with 300 people who can do his job better than he, John Ryan, Brian Flynn, Alex Ferguson, Mahatma Ghandi, The Pope, Carling and that bloke who used to run Yaurs all put together can.....in their teabreak!

[RobTheRover]

Well, we know Sean loves a good cup of tea, pal.

[Alickismyhero]

The cat is out of the bag we now know how badly they were treated and I thought we were different to other clubs.

Football is just a revolving door and if that is the case keep looking over your shoulder BF.

[RobTheRover]

One side of the story,  Alick,  one side of the story.

Can we let this drop now? 

[Filo]

Karenza is hardly impartial in all this, I`m surprised you appear or give the impression that you don`t know who Karenza is Alick, given that you claim to know and talk to SOD on a regular basis

[TommyC]

Well she was press and pr officer at Bournemouth Football Club 2003 to 2004. Her CV is on her LinkedIn profile. No official Rovers role that she admits to.

Edit: also just been reading her website " Ten Points Tick" which suggests she is/offers some type of spin doctor/media guru services. Now we know Sean wasn't the greatest with the media......was/is she his unofficial mouthpiece??

[Filo]

Well she was press and pr officer at Bournemouth Football Club 2003 to 2004. Her CV is on her LinkedIn profile. No official Rovers role that she admits to.

Karenza Morton's Summary

Meticulous and dynamic NCTJ-trained professional with a passion for communicating through the written word. Ten years' recognised excellence in journalism and public relations and extremely versatile and highly-experienced in dealing with people at all levels while respected and trusted for discretion and
diplomacy.
Specialties

audio, broadcast, concept development, features, government, press releases, production, publicity, research, sales, stories, television production, theatre, video, web site production, writing,

Hardly discreet and diplomatic with her rants on twitter is she

[Belle-Vue-Ghost]

After keeping us in the division for 3 years, when all the meat had been taken off the bones and the skeleton was left, the board turn on the best manager since I started supporting the club! They've never had a penny of my money from that point on and won't until they get back into the championship, if that ever happens!


[/quote]

Savvy - I'm sorry, you talk a lot of sense but what kind of a statement is that?

Why does it take us to be in the Championship for you to invest money into the club again?

[TommyC]

Well she was press and pr officer at Bournemouth Football Club 2003 to 2004. Her CV is on her LinkedIn profile. No official Rovers role that she admits to.

Karenza Morton's Summary

Meticulous and dynamic NCTJ-trained professional with a passion for communicating through the written word. Ten years' recognised excellence in journalism and public relations and extremely versatile and highly-experienced in dealing with people at all levels while respected and trusted for discretion and
diplomacy.
Specialties

audio, broadcast, concept development, features, government, press releases, production, publicity, research, sales, stories, television production, theatre, video, web site production, writing,

Hardly discreet and diplomatic with her rants on twitter is she

Totally agree Filo. But the social media is increasingly the place where the savvy media types use to market products, leak information, mix it up a but etc. see my edited post above. I reckon Karenza knows exactly what she is doing and it wouldn't surprise me if she is speaking for Sean. Check out her Twitter pics.... She was involved at Forest during Sean's reign too. Once again no official role though.

[Filo]

Well she was press and pr officer at Bournemouth Football Club 2003 to 2004. Her CV is on her LinkedIn profile. No official Rovers role that she admits to.

Karenza Morton's Summary

Meticulous and dynamic NCTJ-trained professional with a passion for communicating through the written word. Ten years' recognised excellence in journalism and public relations and extremely versatile and highly-experienced in dealing with people at all levels while respected and trusted for discretion and
diplomacy.
Specialties

audio, broadcast, concept development, features, government, press releases, production, publicity, research, sales, stories, television production, theatre, video, web site production, writing,

Hardly discreet and diplomatic with her rants on twitter is she

Totally agree Filo. But the social media is increasingly the place where the savvy media types use to market products, leak information, mix it up a but etc. see my edited post above. I reckon Karenza knows exactly what she is doing and it wouldn't surprise me if she is speaking for Sean. Check out her Twitter pics.... She was involved at Forest during Sean's reign too. Once again no official role though.

SOD`s PA perchance? not directly employed by the club he works for but employed by SOD himself?


It`s also interesting that from her tweets she appears to be monitoring reaction on this forum

[TommyC]

Yeah something like that would be my bet. Whether there's a family/personal connection or not I'd wager she performs some kind of media mouthpiece role for him.

 Media and in particular social media are hugely powerful tools and Sean will know the need to handle it correctly and manipulate it accordingly to his advantage. If he hasnt the skills or time to do it himself then this person would be able to do it for him. You could see a role for someone honing Sean's written output, doing his programme notes, press releases, indirect social media references and general profile raising for the guy in the football world and with the fans of whichever club he's at.

[Filo]

Now the pot has been stirred, she`s removed all her tweets from Yesterday, has Sean give her a bollocking?

[ArmthorpeRover]

Stop bumming the guy. He never cared about us. He tried time and time again to get away from us.

It's fascinating watching ones own, and others, prejudices, opinions, thought processes isn't it? How do you know Sean 'tried time and time again to get away from us?' There are at least two other perfectly rational alternative explanations for what went on with those jobs. I don't know which explanation is right. But I try, hard, not to let my own dogma make my mind up for me. Like I said, for the countervailing view to that expressed by the Rovers, Karenza is well worth taking seriously. It's not for me to publicise who she is and what she does - but she's well informed I promise you.

BobG

I'll tell you what else is fascinating.......seeing names pop up that haven't posted for a good while until this shite gets raked up again. Do they support Doncaster Rovers or SO'D?

This place has been at its most positive for a LONG time, I understand some ppl feel the need to shit stir or have some pressing urge to know every in and out but ffs guys......we have a league to win here....this is all history. It serves no good purpose to split the fandom again when nothing can be done about it.

[DonnyOsmond]

Talking about SOD now doesn't seem to lead to any good at all. He was a good manager and I liked him at the time but my opinion of him is going down the more the same people keep bringing him up.