Lost generation rubbish...

[Donnyjim]

As this clip clearly shows. We have never commanded big crowds. This was the first day of the season in 1973. I've been watching since 1981 and we only averaged 3000 ish for years. 

[Bentley Bullet]

In the sixties when we were a fourth division club, we averaged the highest gates in the fourth, third and half of the second division.

[RoversDave]

Mr Hubert Bates was still on the Board.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

And if you look at the rest, nobody really had a crowd of note!

[podrover73]

We were a poor team during the early seventies and were applying for re-election most of the time 

[Filo]

And if you look at the rest, nobody really had a crowd of note!

Grimsby 10709, looks like they are suffering the lost generation effect now, either that or the Humber Bridge eroded their support

[silent majority]

You only have to look at the crowds at the Keepmoat and see the age groups that go. They're either people of my age or young kids, there's very little in between. Neither of my two are Rovers fans, and I've tried, but when they were teenagers the Rovers were in the Conference and them, and their friends weren't interested.

It's not one generation missing, it's more like two.

[Rich_The_Conisbrough_Rover]

And if you look at the rest, nobody really had a crowd of note!

Grimsby 10709, looks like they are suffering the lost generation effect now, either that or the Humber Bridge eroded their support

I've just looked at the same thing and thought exactly the same.

[adamtherover]

Conceeding a last min goal.. sounds about right!..

[RoversDave]

Never is not quite right Jim

[Filo]

Never is not quite right Jim

Only one attendance below 20k all season against an insignificant West Yorkshire club and the highest in excess of 32k, how did they all fit into BV, even with the old popstand and the higher terrace on the Rosso end?

[Boomstick]

What about the 80's when the gates were 20k, or the 50's when they were 30k?
I agree with silent majority, we haven't lost 1 generation, we've lost 2.

[Chris Black come back]

You only have to look at the crowds at the Keepmoat and see the age groups that go. They're either people of my age or young kids, there's very little in between. Neither of my two are Rovers fans, and I've tried, but when they were teenagers the Rovers were in the Conference and them, and their friends weren't interested.

It's not one generation missing, it's more like two.

I started going in 1992 when we were proper shit and got worse. No bugger at school then went to Belle Vue I can confirm. Well there was one lad who used to go with his dad and they would stand on the Main Stand terrace. You could easily pick them out from the Pop Side each game because for most of the time there was literally nobody else in their standing section. Dark days.

[The Red Baron]

Season   Avge Att.
1946-47   15,339
1947-48   22,317
1948-49   13,842
1949-50   18,252
1950-51   22,838
1951-52   21,078
1952-53   15,862
1953-54   16,983
1954-55   12,385
1955-56   12,414
1956-57   12,375
1957-58   11,129
1958-59   6,664
1959-60   5,247
1960-61   4,754
1961-62   4,471
1962-63   6,303
1963-64   6,371
1964-65   8,570
1965-66   10,398
1966-67   7,906
1967-68   7,852
1968-69   10,211
1969-70   8,561
1970-71   4,478
1971-72   4,125
1972-73   2,259
1973-74   2,395
1974-75   2,975
1975-76   6,056
1976-77   4,631
1977-78   3,228
1978-79   3,000
1979-80   4,321
1980-81   5,412
1981-82   5,234
1982-83   3,541
1983-84   3,778
1984-85   4,103
1985-86   2,804
1986-87   2,408
1987-88   1,913
1988-89   2,159
1989-90   2,706
1990-91   2,831
1991-92   2,058
1992-93   2,411
1993-94   2,478
1994-95   2,585
1995-96   2,090
1996-97   2,091
1997-98   1,715

[The Red Baron]

Post-war home average attendance (League only) figures up to the time we went out of the League in 1998.

Our attendances fell off a cliff from around 1969-1970, which was around the time I started watching Rovers. The first game I went to had a crowd of over 10,000 (against Bristol Rovers, so not much away support) and a few weeks later we had nearly 20,000 for the Boxing Day (1969) game v Rotherham.

There was still potential for big crowds as shown by the 20,000+ crowds for the Liverpool FA Cup replay (on a midweek afternoon) in 1973-74 and for the League Cup tie with Hull in 1975-76. We didn't get 20K gates in the 1980s but again there was potential for a big attendance for an important game.

I've always blamed the "Leeds United" effect as our period in the doldrums in the early 70s coincided with their period of greatest success. However, the drop from 1968-69 to 1972-73 is so dramatic that there must have been other factors in play.

SM is right though, we've lost at least two generations.

[Muttley]

1957-58   11,129
1958-59   6,664

What caused that near-50% drop? Relegation to tier 3 I presume.

Anyone fancying graphing attendances and league position over the years?

[IDM]

But you also should look at other clubs' attendances in a similar period too - I suspect that attendances were great all round in the 50s as there was f**k all else to do on a Saturday afternoon, no footy on TV to make folks become plastic Mancs etc etc.

Makes the arguments over attendances in recent seasons seem irrelevant really...

[graingrover]

THE watershed was that disaster of alienating Peter Doherty and the subsequent rapid descent through  two relegations and the lower  reaches  of the Football League . The whole infrastructure of the club decayed from First team to Youth team to backroom through admin and commercial.

  But then came the Miners' Strike .. the Thatcher victory.. the loss of work ... the disappearace of big employers like NCB, Plant Works , Pilks, International Harvesters , Ford ...

            The decline in the way the club was managed was exacerbated by the decline of Donny as a thriving Industrial and Market town. Folk sort solace by linking their football dreams with other clubs that were successful . And therein lies the realities of the reason for   allegiances of many so called supporters today is my analysis . Loyalty has been replaced as a badge by Artificial Allegiance. 

[The Red Baron]

1957-58   11,129
1958-59   6,664

What caused that near-50% drop? Relegation to tier 3 I presume.

Anyone fancying graphing attendances and league position over the years?

Raw material here- I'd have a go but I'm just about to go out for the day. Too nice to be sitting inside producing graphs!

Season   Level   League   Position
1946-47   3   3 (North)   Champions
1947-48   2   2   21st Rel
1948-49   3   3 (North)   3rd
1949-50   3   3 (North)   Champions
1950-51   2   2   11th
1951-52   2   2   16th
1952-53   2   2   13th
1953-54   2   2   12th
1954-55   2   2   18th
1955-56   2   2   17th
1956-57   2   2   14th
1957-58   2   2   22nd Rel
1958-59   3   3   22nd Rel
1959-60   4   4   17th
1960-61   4   4   11th
1961-62   4   4   21st RE.
1962-63   4   4   16th
1963-64   4   4   14th
1964-65   4   4   9th
1965-66   4   4   Champions
1966-67   3   3   23rd Rel
1967-68   4   4   10th
1968-69   4   4   Champions
1969-70   3   3   11th
1970-71   3   3   23rd Rel
1971-72   4   4   12th
1972-73   4   4   17th
1973-74   4   4   22nd RE.
1974-75   4   4   17th
1975-76   4   4   10th
1976-77   4   4   8th
1977-78   4   4   12th
1978-79   4   4   22nd RE.
1979-80   4   4   12th
1980-81   4   4   3rd Prom.
1981-82   3   3   19th
1982-83   3   3   23rd Rel
1983-84   4   4   2nd Prom.
1984-85   3   3   14th
1985-86   3   3   11th
1986-87   3   3   13th
1987-88   3   3   24th Rel
1988-89   4   4   23rd
1989-90   4   4   20th
1990-91   4   4   11th
1991-92   4   4   21st
1992-93   4   FL 3   16th
1993-94   4   FL 3   15th
1994-95   4   FL 3   9th
1995-96   4   FL 3   13th
1996-97   4   FL 3   19th
1997-98   4   FL 3   24th Rel

[BillyStubbsTears]

1957-58   11,129
1958-59   6,664

What caused that near-50% drop? Relegation to tier 3 I presume.

Anyone fancying graphing attendances and league position over the years?

I've got it somewhere. Will upload it in a bit.

[BillyStubbsTears]

There you go.

League position is such that 1=Tier1 Champions etc.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Actually, the following graph is probably more informative. Instead of showing the Rovers' attendances, I've divided that by the average attendance for the whole Football League. So that accounts for big long trends of football becoming less or more popular nationally



You can see now that from the War up to the end of the 70s, our attendances pretty well tracked our league performance. It is from the mid-80s that the two diverged, and attendances were crap even when we were moderately successful on the pitch.

The obvious thing is to blame the economic woes of the period, but that doesn't quite explain it. Barnsley was hit as hard as us, but they had decent crowds when they did well in the 80s. Maybe it was the long-term air of neglect that permeated OBV? I dunno.

[Sprotyrover]

I think the state of the ground had a big part to play I used to chat to loads of folks who followed the club results but wouldn't go to BV because it was a Shack!

[Dutch Uncle]

TRB is exactly right with the attendances falling of a cliff ca 1970, and as others have said that is clearly two generations lost.

However the most visible stand-out buck-the-trend part of both of BST's graphs for me is 1998-9 when we were relegated down to the Conference and doubled our attendances. It shows the backlash against the Richardson era, and the sheer relief when we found our club was not about to die. IMHO 1998-9 is the most important season in our entire history, and one person who never seems to gain the credit he deserves is Ian Snodin. 

It is also interesting that the rise in attendances for the first 1.5 seasons in the Keepmoat is drowned by the increase in reaching the Championship for the first time.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Actually, the following graph is probably more informative. Instead of showing the Rovers' attendances, I've divided that by the average attendance for the whole Football League. So that accounts for big long trends of football becoming less or more popular nationally

Great use of stats BST. The only thing that doesn't allow for is the league position or number of games won, and the quantum leaps made between leagues, all of which are factors influencing our crowds.

I think most of the factors people have mentioned are important, and all the club can do is work on the kind of things it has done which put it in the best position to maximise crowds as the many other variables come into play.

Watching Rovers was not a fashionable thing to do when I was at school (70s), in fact it felt a bit grubby even if affordable. That suited me, not most people. I think that's changed significantly - both in being more fashionable, and less affordable.

[Donnyjim]

As this clip clearly shows. We have never commanded big crowds. This was the first day of the season in 1973. I've been watching since 1981 and we only averaged 3000 ish for years. 

A brace from Alan Warboys for Bristol Rovers!

[BobG]

Smash and Grab.

And did you spot the friendly against Third Lanark? Another badly used club. They died though. Like Clydebank did a generation later. I believe Third Lanark's ground is still there.

BobG

[Filo]

Smash and Grab.

And did you spot the friendly against Third Lanark? Another badly used club. They died though. Like Clydebank did a generation later. I believe Third Lanark's ground is still there.

BobG

Cathkin Park record attendance 45,554 v Rangers

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nWeXr4ZL9A4

[1879Rovers]

In the early 80's Rovers could quickly put four or five thousand on a crowd with three or four wins. One defeat though and they all quickly disappeared. Something for me went a miss in the promotion season of 83/84 and it happened again this century. In our first promotion at the turn of the 80's we were getting crowds regularly above 7,000-8,000 and there were 12,000 in for the final home game. In 83/84 when we won promotion again, we struggled for 5,000 all season.

Same again early this century. Crowds were up massively in our fourth division title winning season but dropped off in the third tier. Even the promotion season of 2007/08 it was only on average about 8,000 in a new ground. Crowds picked up in our first season in the championship but have been on the decline since and last season when we won League One, we struggled to get over 8,000.

I remember Peter Wetzel putting an add in the Daily Express in the mid 80's asking why fans stayed away.

We were playing in the lower divisions whilst Sheffield Wednesday were in the First Division, their neighbours in the second and so were Leeds and it was the same price to watch them as it was Rovers. No wonder it was easy for us to lose a few generations of fans back then.

You can see the trend though, our fanbase grew between 2003-2006 when only Sheffield United were doing anything, as both Wednesday and Leeds were struggling. Is it a coincidence that our crowds have dropped since both of them got back into the championship?

[1879Rovers]

PS. I always knew when there was a decent crowd at Belle Vue. We had cars parked in our road (Rufford Road).