england

[bedale rover]

Anyone else read the article on the BBC sport site quoting Gary Neville as saying that England couldn't do what Germany could do ie set a 10 year plan to produce a world cup winning team!

In other words we aren't going to change the premier league to benefit the England team or put the money in to get the coaching network needed to produce England qualified players

And he is the heir apparent to the England coaches job!

[since-1969]

England has no credibility any more. The FA has been feathering its own nest for the past 20 yrs and never gave a singe thought to how it's National team was doing . Changing managers was as much as you get when change was wanted . Trevor Brooking was brought into Shake things up only to find they didn't want to Change if it cost FA administration jobs or spoiling the party as to where the money is spent . NO one wants the top job as England manager , as he is left to fight for players with Premier League mangers , who In turn just want to protect the over paid prized assets  . England need to win something soon or they will loose their loyal supporters who are starting doubt the FA's commitment to the national team.

[PaulRover08]

Anyone else read the article on the BBC sport site quoting Gary Neville as saying that England couldn't do what Germany could do ie set a 10 year plan to produce a world cup winning team!

In other words we aren't going to change the premier league to benefit the England team or put the money in to get the coaching network needed to produce England qualified players

And he is the heir apparent to the England coaches job!

He's 100% right as usual. In Germany its all about the national team. Clubs and fans understand that. Can you imagine that happening here now? For a start, many fans openly say they put their club before the country and wouldn't welcome change if it represented less chance of success immediately for their clubs.

[Copps is Magic]

FA won't do jack shit about it while the premiership is bringing in so much money and creating jobs for people sat in offices.

The saddest part of the world cup was after revealing England were much worse than we first thought - there was no aftermath, no inquiry, not one berty big bolloxs speaking out and saying this is what we need to do in the future. Instead - what happened? Rwoy was giving fat frank a send off he didn't deserve alongside his old mate Stevie G. Everyone else's reaction (including the media)? = well we might as well stick with Rwoy because realistically the team is shite anyway.

Forget about it is my answer. By the time another decent England team rolls around nationalism will be a thing of the past and we'll all be living in super-states or underwater garden cities or something.

[scaley back rover]

May i suggest you look up chris waddles rant about the state of the english game , talk about nail and head. Problem is FA have no control of the game anymore the PL has taken over.
On 5live yesterday they talked about and interviewed key people within the German game and how they went about getting to the stage they are at. Incredible how its been done in conjunction with the leading clubs developing local talent and turning them into world beaters. Having seen the German way myself you can see why its worked so well and that all fans ,players and clubs have reaped the benefits.

Sadly it will never happen in this country unless some real changes are made at the top of our governing body

[PDX_Rover]

Good thread, this. The national team is piss poor. Germany have thought it out and put a very effective plan in place. Holland too have an interesting plan on the managerial side for succession.

I'd like to think that there's hope that those in positions of responsibility in the English game will have the balls to do something radical, but I doubt it. Not while there's money to be made.

[dickos1]

The premier league are killing the game in all areas other than inside the premier league itself.
55 million for finishing bottom of the league Cardiff got last season. And the money is only going to go up now that American tv is involved in the bidding process.
Scudamore doesn't give a shite about lower league clubs or the national side

[Hag]

Trevor Brooking was brought into Shake things up

Got to admit I thought this would be a good appointment, only for him to fall quickly into "the fold" and do very little!

Hodgson on £3.5 million a year - get him in from Leeds, he can't cost much and he must be good!!!!!

[not on facebook]

what worrys me should England fluke a euros final win as both denmark
and greece have ,far too many will be shouting from the roof tops that the tide has turned

like fcuk it will have as England have stayed at same Level for last 40years,as the cream at top have got better ,while shite teams like turkey ,norway,poland,
usa,austraila,japan,korea etc etc from 40 years back have all got better.

towhich they are all now at englands Level some above.

i expect England to win fcuk all in my life time.

the most of the  overpaid players just dont have the heart when on national duty.

and all roads of blame lead back to them fcukwits at the FA

[Hag]

what worrys me should England fluke a euros final win as both denmark and greece have

I would take that, with nothing else on the horizon!

[not on facebook]

what worrys me should England fluke a euros final win as both denmark and greece have

I would take that, with nothing else on the horizon!

it would only paper over the cracks then another possible 50pluss years of Jack shit

[Hag]

We were supposedly playing all the kids this world cup, that's why Hodgson got a free ride, he played some and used the same old excuse, we need experience, why, to hold them back?

Get rid of all the old guard, give us a chance of something, while we carry on picking the same old failures to teach our young players how to fail, guess what's going to follow... more of the same.

Hodgson out!

[GazLaz]

Ten year plan?? Haven't Germany always been good and we've always been poor? It was only 1996 when they won the Euros wasn't it? They've always produced better players than us. They have a better mentality than us.

[Belle-Vue-Ghost]

Whatever happens, the FA need to come up with something.  Young English players need to play at the highest level possible to get better.  From a premier league managers point of view, its cheaper to buy a young foreign player than a young English player.

An example - 30 million for Luke Shaw 

Also - you see hardly any english players playing abroad these days, they are too happy in the comfort of their own country on high salaries.  They need to get out there and be playing in the Bundesliga, BBVA and Seria A. 

It wont happen though because foreign clubs aren't as stupid as our lot to spend 30 million on an english left back

[PDX_Rover]

Ten year plan?? Haven't Germany always been good and we've always been poor? It was only 1996 when they won the Euros wasn't it? They've always produced better players than us. They have a better mentality than us.

True, but after the (relative for them) failure in 98 and 2000 they put a plan in place covering ten years, starting from grassroots, getting lots of A level coaches qualified and focusing on skills and reading the game. They are now seeing the rewards. They have it sorted right from kids to youth to club to national level. The government is right behind it too, something our government would never do, as there is too much money to be made by keeping the cash cow of premier league football and tv rights the world over just as it is.

I'm with Oslo on this. We will win bugger all until there is massive change. I'd be amazed if I see it in my lifetime.

[bpoolrover]

Not sure what you can do really,if anything I think they need to sort the coaching out at a very young age,other teams are far more technical and skilful than us. I didn't think we were that bad certainly against Italy.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The decisions made in 98-2004 are illuminating. England and Germany were equally shit back then. Germany were hammered at two consecutive Euros. They were utterly out-classed by Croatia in the QF in WC98. They made it to the final in WC2002, but only with the help of the easiest run that any team has ever had (group contained Ireland, Saudia Arabia and Cameroon, R2 they played Paraguay, QF USA and Semi South Korea).

Their response was to figure out waht was wrong in their coaching and development and put the money in to put that right. Look at the results a decade later.

We were just as shit. R2 of WC1998. QF in WC 2002, Out at the Group stages of Euro 2000. Out in the QF in Euro 2004.

What did our FA do? Spent £1bn on redeveloping Wembley as a cash cow and constantly put off the promised investment in coaching and youth development. Look at the result a decade later.

[mattco]

Millions thought it was great when Sky started showing so many live games and pumping billions into Premier League football.  Now we have football Friday night, all day Saturday and Sunday and Monday night.  Even the Cup Final has been moved to suit TV.  The result is vastly overpaid players, a bloated F A and Premier League and everything else from the Championship down screwed up and that includes the national team.  The whole system stinks but it won't change.  Too many snouts in the Sky trough.

[rtid88]

England will never win a tournament again! The FA and Premier League could genuinely not give two hoots about the national team.

The Under 17 squad that won their World Cup will never get a look in at their clubs due to the constant and ever growiing influx of foreign players and the few that might will be given £100k's a week contracts the moment they do break through and instantly their desire to improve and play for their country has gone as they don't want to risk getting injured playing for their country.

The young players therefore are clearly their and the grassroots situation of the game in this country are not as bad as have been made!

What needs to happen and obviously won't is for each club in the premier league to be given a wage cap and transfer cap every season, who cares if the likes of Costa, Sanchez or Hazard don't want to play in this country anymore because they are not given the wages that they want! Do you think the German's care that these players have not moved to a German club??

This country is completely screwed as a national team and I personally see this only getting worse and worse

[hoolahoop]

It,'s a complete shambles and we've been saying it for years.
Club v Country any player worth his salt would never risk damaging his career by choosing the former.
However although this does seem to be a football problem , it will be interesting to see if this happens in Rugby Union as the players wages increase ?

[RedJ]

In Rugby Union players are called up for Six Nations duty during the club season. They actually miss club matches to be in the England side, so far as I'm aware. I don't remember the last time I heard of any of them shirking international duty either.

[Spud]

England will never win a tournament again! The FA and Premier League could genuinely not give two hoots about the national team.

The Under 17 squad that won their World Cup will never get a look in at their clubs due to the constant and ever growiing influx of foreign players and the few that might will be given £100k's a week contracts the moment they do break through and instantly their desire to improve and play for their country has gone as they don't want to risk getting injured playing for their country.

The young players therefore are clearly their and the grassroots situation of the game in this country are not as bad as have been made!

What needs to happen and obviously won't is for each club in the premier league to be given a wage cap and transfer cap every season, who cares if the likes of Costa, Sanchez or Hazard don't want to play in this country anymore because they are not given the wages that they want! Do you think the German's care that these players have not moved to a German club??

This country is completely screwed as a national team and I personally see this only getting worse and worse

This. Couldn't have put it better.

[Wellred]

As long as the premiership is dominated by foreign owners with foreign managers playing foreign players nobody will give a stuff about the national team!

[PaulRover08]

Its no good just blaming Sky and PL authorities. Its easy for us to pin point the issue as we are never likely to have an England international play for us but imagine we ever did get to the PL. If we were linked with players like Vidal, Fabregas and co, would any of us really say "no, we don't want them, go and sign an 18 year old Englishman for the future". Sadly, no we wouldn't. Fans of these big clubs are to blame too. Want success and want it yesterday.

[bobjimwilly]

With regards to internation duties, all the FA have to do is introduce a rule that states any player who turns down any international call-up, unless injured, will forfeit playing for their country in future




 

[Alan Southstand]

We've seen that the Germany "plan" effectively work for them and all we have come up with, so far, is GN claiming it won't work for us! So, if he is indeed correct and the Germany plan can't work effectiveli in England, then what is the alternative? I don't know what the long term plan is and neither do I know if we have any sort of plan at all.

As supporters, we all have our various ideas on what the problems are and some even have radical ideas of how to solve those problems, but as far as I'm aware, no-one with any clout at all even believes there IS a problem. If this is the case then, truly, we are up sh1t creek without a paddle!

Over to you at the PL and FA...........anyone there?

[RobTheRover]

German clubs have a very interesting mentality about youth development.  The Bundesliga clubs' all have the same core annual strategy - aim to produce 3 home grown players for their own club, 3 who can play at the top level but not at their club, and 3 who will go on to have a good playing career at a slightly lower level.  They dont give up on kids at 16 and cast them out of the game, nor at 18.  They take a longer term strategy.

Of course, this depends on proper grass roots support for youth player development, which is something that the FA have spectacularly managed to underfund in this country for far too long.  There is a petition going now by the Save Grass Roots Football pressure group.  Can i suggest everyone supports this?

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/46134

[silent majority]

To suggest the FA don't realise there's a problem is incorrect. That's why Greg Dyke created his commission on his recent appointment and they delivered their first release of their blueprint quite recently. You may remember all the fuss over creating 'B' teams that would play in the lower leagues? They looked at several European leagues and decided that was an idea worth copying. Wrongly I might add.

The problem with the first release was that it was overshadowed by the furores over the 'B' teams when it actually did have some positive ideas. The second release is due around about October time.

[Alan Southstand]

Due out in October? - Christ on a bike, how much time do they need? Regardless, I don't think anyone will be holding their breath waiting for an inspirational idea or two!

[steve@dcfd]

To suggest the FA don't realise there's a problem is incorrect. That's why Greg Dyke created his commission on his recent appointment and they delivered their first release of their blueprint quite recently. You may remember all the fuss over creating 'B' teams that would play in the lower leagues? They looked at several European leagues and decided that was an idea worth copying. Wrongly I might add.

The problem with the first release was that it was overshadowed by the furores over the 'B' teams when it actually did have some positive ideas. The second release is due around about October time.

Will the FA second release take on the PL and the European courts in setting quotas of foreign player allowed in the 25 players. If we look now at the transfers going through at Premiership clubs very few are English and if they are they cost the clubs more than they are worth compared with Foreign imports.

Will FA and England manager start to look in the Championship or lower for England players. Costa Rica won our group with three defenders who played in the lower leagues than the Premiership.