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Quote from: IC1967 on October 01, 2014, 09:44:13 amBlatant lies and misinformation are highlighted in bold. EFTA members are allowed to run their own affairs. Iceland, Norway, and Liechtenstein have an EFTA/EEA agreement. This allows allow them access to the Single Market. Crucially though they still keep control of agriculture, fisheries, Home Affairs and Justice. They do not have to sign up to all the EU regulations. They are only subject to the 4,500 EEA regulations. They are not signed up to the additional 15,000 EU regulations. Switzerland has a similar arrangement and has negotiated several free trade bi-lateral agreements with the EU.So BST, it is clear for all to see that it is you that is living in cloud cuckoo land. You lie to give people the impression that if we left the EU and still wanted to trade with them we'd still be subject to all their rules. This is a monumental lie. It doesn't get much bigger than this. How you've got the nerve to perpetrate such a lie is beyond belief. You really must think everyone on this forum is stupid.Luckily for all the stupid people on this forum that believe all your utterances I am around to expose you.Now I'd suggest you get on with that abject apology before I further expose you. You've got until midnight or I'll be posting more damning evidence again tomorrow.EEA/EFTA gives member countries access to Free Trade with the EU, NOT the Single Market. Completely different things. No wonder you don't know what you're blathering about. As usual.
Blatant lies and misinformation are highlighted in bold. EFTA members are allowed to run their own affairs. Iceland, Norway, and Liechtenstein have an EFTA/EEA agreement. This allows allow them access to the Single Market. Crucially though they still keep control of agriculture, fisheries, Home Affairs and Justice. They do not have to sign up to all the EU regulations. They are only subject to the 4,500 EEA regulations. They are not signed up to the additional 15,000 EU regulations. Switzerland has a similar arrangement and has negotiated several free trade bi-lateral agreements with the EU.So BST, it is clear for all to see that it is you that is living in cloud cuckoo land. You lie to give people the impression that if we left the EU and still wanted to trade with them we'd still be subject to all their rules. This is a monumental lie. It doesn't get much bigger than this. How you've got the nerve to perpetrate such a lie is beyond belief. You really must think everyone on this forum is stupid.Luckily for all the stupid people on this forum that believe all your utterances I am around to expose you.Now I'd suggest you get on with that abject apology before I further expose you. You've got until midnight or I'll be posting more damning evidence again tomorrow.
I've had a few political sparrings with bst in the past and whilst we are at different ends of the political divide I always try and discuss it without getting into a row which this has done...However whatever the individual opinions of people are I'm sure that bst will admit Labour have totally failed to engage with the public..Edd was the wrong choice of leader and Balls doesn't come across very well and people just don't trust them..In truth with a government who have had to make some hard descisions to the public purse Labour should be flying in the polls and the fact that they are not makes grim reading for any labour supporter...
Quote from: Glyn_Wigley on October 02, 2014, 01:37:35 pmQuote from: IC1967 on October 01, 2014, 09:44:13 amBlatant lies and misinformation are highlighted in bold. EFTA members are allowed to run their own affairs. Iceland, Norway, and Liechtenstein have an EFTA/EEA agreement. This allows allow them access to the Single Market. Crucially though they still keep control of agriculture, fisheries, Home Affairs and Justice. They do not have to sign up to all the EU regulations. They are only subject to the 4,500 EEA regulations. They are not signed up to the additional 15,000 EU regulations. Switzerland has a similar arrangement and has negotiated several free trade bi-lateral agreements with the EU.So BST, it is clear for all to see that it is you that is living in cloud cuckoo land. You lie to give people the impression that if we left the EU and still wanted to trade with them we'd still be subject to all their rules. This is a monumental lie. It doesn't get much bigger than this. How you've got the nerve to perpetrate such a lie is beyond belief. You really must think everyone on this forum is stupid.Luckily for all the stupid people on this forum that believe all your utterances I am around to expose you.Now I'd suggest you get on with that abject apology before I further expose you. You've got until midnight or I'll be posting more damning evidence again tomorrow.EEA/EFTA gives member countries access to Free Trade with the EU, NOT the Single Market. Completely different things. No wonder you don't know what you're blathering about. As usual.Not quite sure what you are on about (as usual). I'm not sure even you know what you think you are on about.Let me explain so the likes of you and Billy can understand. I'll try not to use too many big words.EEA is short for the European Economic Area. Member countries have free movement of goods, services, people and capital. This is the Single market. All the countries in the EU are members of the EEA. Norway, Iceland, and Liechtenstein, who are members of EFTA are also members of the EEA and also have access to the Single Market. It is not just about free trade as you seem to think.I don't think I can make it any easier to understand. If you're still not sure then let me know exactly what it is you don't understand. If you still think I'm not right, then please try and show me where I'm going wrong as I could do with a good laugh.Look, Like Billy you've probably had one battering too many in the past. Take the advice I've given Billy. Ignore my posts. You only end up making yourself look daft when you try and prove I've made a mistake.
Quote from: IC1967 on October 02, 2014, 02:09:37 pmQuote from: Glyn_Wigley on October 02, 2014, 01:37:35 pmQuote from: IC1967 on October 01, 2014, 09:44:13 amBlatant lies and misinformation are highlighted in bold. EFTA members are allowed to run their own affairs. Iceland, Norway, and Liechtenstein have an EFTA/EEA agreement. This allows allow them access to the Single Market. Crucially though they still keep control of agriculture, fisheries, Home Affairs and Justice. They do not have to sign up to all the EU regulations. They are only subject to the 4,500 EEA regulations. They are not signed up to the additional 15,000 EU regulations. Switzerland has a similar arrangement and has negotiated several free trade bi-lateral agreements with the EU.So BST, it is clear for all to see that it is you that is living in cloud cuckoo land. You lie to give people the impression that if we left the EU and still wanted to trade with them we'd still be subject to all their rules. This is a monumental lie. It doesn't get much bigger than this. How you've got the nerve to perpetrate such a lie is beyond belief. You really must think everyone on this forum is stupid.Luckily for all the stupid people on this forum that believe all your utterances I am around to expose you.Now I'd suggest you get on with that abject apology before I further expose you. You've got until midnight or I'll be posting more damning evidence again tomorrow.EEA/EFTA gives member countries access to Free Trade with the EU, NOT the Single Market. Completely different things. No wonder you don't know what you're blathering about. As usual.Not quite sure what you are on about (as usual). I'm not sure even you know what you think you are on about.Let me explain so the likes of you and Billy can understand. I'll try not to use too many big words.EEA is short for the European Economic Area. Member countries have free movement of goods, services, people and capital. This is the Single market. All the countries in the EU are members of the EEA. Norway, Iceland, and Liechtenstein, who are members of EFTA are also members of the EEA and also have access to the Single Market. It is not just about free trade as you seem to think.I don't think I can make it any easier to understand. If you're still not sure then let me know exactly what it is you don't understand. If you still think I'm not right, then please try and show me where I'm going wrong as I could do with a good laugh.Look, Like Billy you've probably had one battering too many in the past. Take the advice I've given Billy. Ignore my posts. You only end up making yourself look daft when you try and prove I've made a mistake.No it isn't. You don't know what you're talking about. No country outside of the EU is in the Single Market. Twenty years as an International Trade Officer for Customs/HMRC makes me know the difference inside out. Your problem, Mick, is that when you cut and paste from someone who doesn't understand things, it shows you don't either.
When countries who are part of the Single Market move goods between themselves, there are no C88 Customs Declarations needed, and there is no VAT charged on the goods. There is complete freedom of movement without the need for any documentation to be presented at any internal borders.Imports/exports to the EEA countries DO have to have C88 Customs declarations presented, and the goods are subject to VAT. Therefore there is Customs control and are not part of the Single Market. Just because you cut and paste something you like doesn't mean it was written by somebody who knows what they're talking about. Or that you do either. But carry on, it's hilarious watching you.
"Being outside the EU has not prevented them from being part of the Single Market!!!"Abrogating the freedom of movement aspects of the EEA (or the bi-lateral agreement in the case of Switzerland) most certainly WOULD result in the economic barriers going up. In fact it is already doing so in the case of Switzerland. Which was the point I was making before this thread followed so many into the black hole of "It's all about Mick".
I think I can speak for Nige and say that Switzerland is a totally different case to the UK so trying to make out that what happens to Switzerland is what awaits the UK should it pull out of the EU is a load of cobblers and is a case of you indulging in scaremongering again. You are totally wrong. For starters we are a much bigger trading partner. The Swiss have a trade surplus, we have a trade deficit. We are the EU's biggest trading partner. We are Germany's biggest trading partner. The EU gets the best of the deal by trading with the UK. Switzerland gets the best of the deal by trading with the EU.
Quote from: Glyn_Wigley on October 03, 2014, 10:02:23 amWhen countries who are part of the Single Market move goods between themselves, there are no C88 Customs Declarations needed, and there is no VAT charged on the goods. There is complete freedom of movement without the need for any documentation to be presented at any internal borders.Imports/exports to the EEA countries DO have to have C88 Customs declarations presented, and the goods are subject to VAT. Therefore there is Customs control and are not part of the Single Market. Just because you cut and paste something you like doesn't mean it was written by somebody who knows what they're talking about. Or that you do either. But carry on, it's hilarious watching you.Unbelievable. You have stated that No country that is outside of the EU is in the Single Market. This is patently untrue and totally absurd. Here's what the UK government's own website says:The EEA includes EU countries and also Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway. It allows them to be part of the EUs single market.Switzerland is neither an EU or EEA member but is part of the single market - this means Swiss nationals have the same rights to live and work in the UK as other EEA nationals.You strike me as someone that can't see the wood for the trees. So what if there are different forms for the above 4 countries to fill in. That is not a surprise and is to be expected. The main point is as I have said above and what the government and numerous other sources have said. I repeat. Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland are part of the Single Market!!! There are no trade tariffs!!!Being outside the EU has not prevented them from being part of the Single Market!!!Have you got it yet? Now get on with that abject apology and we'll try and move on from this sorry mess.
Quote from: IC1967 on September 30, 2014, 06:37:27 pmI think I can speak for Nige and say that Switzerland is a totally different case to the UK so trying to make out that what happens to Switzerland is what awaits the UK should it pull out of the EU is a load of cobblers and is a case of you indulging in scaremongering again. You are totally wrong. For starters we are a much bigger trading partner. The Swiss have a trade surplus, we have a trade deficit. We are the EU's biggest trading partner. We are Germany's biggest trading partner. The EU gets the best of the deal by trading with the UK. Switzerland gets the best of the deal by trading with the EU.MickYou know how much trouble I have keeping up with your brilliant use of English?Can you help me out on a few issues here as I am incredibly thick and a right pedant who just loves arguing for the sake of it. The ones highlighted above.a) When you say that Switzerland has a trade surplus, do you mean on trade with the EU?b) When you say that Switzerland gets the best out of the deal with the EU, what exactly do you mean?c) When you say that we are a "much bigger trading partner", how do you define "much"?Just some simple points to clear up for a simpleton like me.
Quote from: IC1967 on October 03, 2014, 10:27:07 amQuote from: Glyn_Wigley on October 03, 2014, 10:02:23 amWhen countries who are part of the Single Market move goods between themselves, there are no C88 Customs Declarations needed, and there is no VAT charged on the goods. There is complete freedom of movement without the need for any documentation to be presented at any internal borders.Imports/exports to the EEA countries DO have to have C88 Customs declarations presented, and the goods are subject to VAT. Therefore there is Customs control and are not part of the Single Market. Just because you cut and paste something you like doesn't mean it was written by somebody who knows what they're talking about. Or that you do either. But carry on, it's hilarious watching you.Unbelievable. You have stated that No country that is outside of the EU is in the Single Market. This is patently untrue and totally absurd. Here's what the UK government's own website says:The EEA includes EU countries and also Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway. It allows them to be part of the EU’s single market.Switzerland is neither an EU or EEA member but is part of the single market - this means Swiss nationals have the same rights to live and work in the UK as other EEA nationals.You strike me as someone that can't see the wood for the trees. So what if there are different forms for the above 4 countries to fill in. That is not a surprise and is to be expected. The main point is as I have said above and what the government and numerous other sources have said. I repeat. Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland are part of the Single Market!!! There are no trade tariffs!!!Being outside the EU has not prevented them from being part of the Single Market!!!Have you got it yet? Now get on with that abject apology and we'll try and move on from this sorry mess.See what I mean about you being hilarious? It's very entertaining.
Quote from: Glyn_Wigley on October 03, 2014, 10:02:23 amWhen countries who are part of the Single Market move goods between themselves, there are no C88 Customs Declarations needed, and there is no VAT charged on the goods. There is complete freedom of movement without the need for any documentation to be presented at any internal borders.Imports/exports to the EEA countries DO have to have C88 Customs declarations presented, and the goods are subject to VAT. Therefore there is Customs control and are not part of the Single Market. Just because you cut and paste something you like doesn't mean it was written by somebody who knows what they're talking about. Or that you do either. But carry on, it's hilarious watching you.Unbelievable. You have stated that No country that is outside of the EU is in the Single Market. This is patently untrue and totally absurd. Here's what the UK government's own website says:The EEA includes EU countries and also Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway. It allows them to be part of the EU’s single market.Switzerland is neither an EU or EEA member but is part of the single market - this means Swiss nationals have the same rights to live and work in the UK as other EEA nationals.You strike me as someone that can't see the wood for the trees. So what if there are different forms for the above 4 countries to fill in. That is not a surprise and is to be expected. The main point is as I have said above and what the government and numerous other sources have said. I repeat. Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland are part of the Single Market!!! There are no trade tariffs!!!Being outside the EU has not prevented them from being part of the Single Market!!!Have you got it yet? Now get on with that abject apology and we'll try and move on from this sorry mess.
If you google "Do EFTA countries have to abide by EU trade rules", the answer is yes. They also pay into the EU budget, Norway about 10th highest contributor. Both Norway and Switzerland follow 80-90% of EU regulations. Sorry I couldn't do a link.