investment

[Mr1Croft]

can't remember who posted about the pleas to jr to lower the prices but if I remember rightly every time he did there was uproar on here that it was not fair on season ticket holders

And therein lies the main issue on dwindling attendances. If you dramatically drop prices you lose season ticket holders who have been potentially regular customers for years in the hope that a totally new fan comes along and gets hooked, like 'investment' in football, its a dangerous gamble. 

For me that was the core principle behind IRWT. Too many clubs focus on what they can do to attract new fans, which I accept a club needs to do if it is ever to progress. But absolutely no effort was being shown to retain the existing supporters. Month after month with different offers and speaking to families and newer fans but the only time a Season Ticket Holder usually gets contacted at a club is when its that time of year again to pay for your Season Ticket.

[Dagenham Rover]

can't remember who posted about the pleas to jr to lower the prices but if I remember rightly every time he did there was uproar on here that it was not fair on season ticket holders

And therein lies the main issue on dwindling attendances. If you dramatically drop prices you lose season ticket holders who have been potentially regular customers for years in the hope that a totally new fan comes along and gets hooked, like 'investment' in football, its a dangerous gamble. 

For me that was the core principle behind IRWT, too many clubs focus on what they can do to attract new fans, which I accept a club needs to do if it needs to progress, but absolutely no effort was being shown to retain the existing supporters. Month and month with different offers and speaking to families and newer fans but the only time a Season Ticket Holder usually gets contacted at a club is when its that time of year again to pay for your Season Ticket.

Damn right Crofty

[Boomstick]

It might cost a 6 figure sum in rent, but the potential income from a shop at the frenchgate is alot bigger.
Not to mention the potential ticket sales, town centre presence etc.

Now THATS investment worthwhile.

So why did Streetwise go bust?


The shop the club had in the town centre was also removed because it simply wasn't making enough as I remember.


It would be a 6 figure sum in rent plus the cost of more stock, staffing and then overheads. It all quickly adds up and your hunting for turnover just short of a 7 figure sum just to cover the costs.


Its also worth pointing out the busiest time in the Frenchgate is Saturday between 2-5. You'd think anyone half hearted in Rovers would be spending that time at the Keepmoat for 23 of those 52 Saturdays a year?

Why is sports direct thriving?

I'm sure the 6 figure sum includes all the overheads inc staffing.

Not every fan goes to games on a regular basis, don't forget the women shopping whilst the men are at footy.

If rovers had a club shop in frenchgate, and ran it we'll with GOOD STOCK . It would thrive.  The previous one failed to its poor (cheap) location.

But first things first , the club shop at the stadium needs sorting.  With a proper decor, good stock, friendly competent staff etc.  it is poor by today's standards.

[Mr1Croft]

It might cost a 6 figure sum in rent, but the potential income from a shop at the frenchgate is alot bigger.
Not to mention the potential ticket sales, town centre presence etc.

Now THATS investment worthwhile.

So why did Streetwise go bust?


The shop the club had in the town centre was also removed because it simply wasn't making enough as I remember.


It would be a 6 figure sum in rent plus the cost of more stock, staffing and then overheads. It all quickly adds up and your hunting for turnover just short of a 7 figure sum just to cover the costs.


Its also worth pointing out the busiest time in the Frenchgate is Saturday between 2-5. You'd think anyone half hearted in Rovers would be spending that time at the Keepmoat for 23 of those 52 Saturdays a year?

Why is sports direct thriving?

I'm sure the 6 figure sum includes all the overheads inc staffing.

Not every fan goes to games on a regular basis, don't forget the women shopping whilst the men are at footy.

If rovers had a club shop in frenchgate, and ran it we'll with GOOD STOCK . It would thrive.  The previous one failed to its poor (cheap) location.

But first things first , the club shop at the stadium needs sorting.  With a proper decor, good stock, friendly competent staff etc.  it is poor by today's standards.

I'm not so sure. I remember when I moved to Hull 4 years ago seeing their club shop in the Princes Quay shopping centre for the first time. I stood in envy at the vibrant Hull City branding donning the Addidas logo, but as time went on and I kept noticing it I also noticed it was empty, now Hull have a much bigger fan base than us and they literally have no clubs within about 20 miles and the Princes Quay is as packed as the Frenchgate on a weekend so I ask if their club shop wasn't thriving why would ours?

I think this was done through Addidas, it was well presented and was set up as good as a club store should be, and it was more of a retail outlet than a club shop so I don't think there is anything more they could have done and still it was empty every time I walked by.

[BillyStubbsTears]

SC

I take it you don't do Twitter?

Thee and me against the tyranny of the 140 characters, eh mucker?

[Iberian Red]

It might cost a 6 figure sum in rent, but the potential income from a shop at the frenchgate is alot bigger.
Not to mention the potential ticket sales, town centre presence etc.

Now THATS investment worthwhile.

So why did Streetwise go bust?


The shop the club had in the town centre was also removed because it simply wasn't making enough as I remember.


It would be a 6 figure sum in rent plus the cost of more stock, staffing and then overheads. It all quickly adds up and your hunting for turnover just short of a 7 figure sum just to cover the costs.


Its also worth pointing out the busiest time in the Frenchgate is Saturday between 2-5. You'd think anyone half hearted in Rovers would be spending that time at the Keepmoat for 23 of those 52 Saturdays a year?

Why is sports direct thriving?

I'm sure the 6 figure sum includes all the overheads inc staffing.

Not every fan goes to games on a regular basis, don't forget the women shopping whilst the men are at footy.

If rovers had a club shop in frenchgate, and ran it we'll with GOOD STOCK . It would thrive.  The previous one failed to its poor (cheap) location.

But first things first , the club shop at the stadium needs sorting.  With a proper decor, good stock, friendly competent staff etc.  it is poor by today's standards.

I'm not so sure. I remember when I moved to Hull 4 years ago seeing their club shop in the Princes Quay shopping centre for the first time. I stood in envy at the vibrant Hull City branding donning the Addidas logo, but as time went on and I kept noticing it I also noticed it was empty, now Hull have a much bigger fan base than us and they literally have no clubs within about 20 miles and the Princes Quay is as packed as the Frenchgate on a weekend so I ask if their club shop wasn't thriving why would ours?

I think this was done through Addidas, it was well presented and was set up as good as a club store should be, and it was more of a retail outlet than a club shop so I don't think there is anything more they could have done and still it was empty every time I walked by.

can't remember who posted about the pleas to jr to lower the prices but if I remember rightly every time he did there was uproar on here that it was not fair on season ticket holders

And therein lies the main issue on dwindling attendances. If you dramatically drop prices you lose season ticket holders who have been potentially regular customers for years in the hope that a totally new fan comes along and gets hooked, like 'investment' in football, its a dangerous gamble. 

For me that was the core principle behind IRWT. Too many clubs focus on what they can do to attract new fans, which I accept a club needs to do if it is ever to progress. But absolutely no effort was being shown to retain the existing supporters. Month after month with different offers and speaking to families and newer fans but the only time a Season Ticket Holder usually gets contacted at a club is when its that time of year again to pay for your Season Ticket.

It could have been all down to cheap fitting suits.

[hoolahoop]

It might cost a 6 figure sum in rent, but the potential income from a shop at the frenchgate is alot bigger.
Not to mention the potential ticket sales, town centre presence etc.

Now THATS investment worthwhile.

So why did Streetwise go bust?


The shop the club had in the town centre was also removed because it simply wasn't making enough as I remember.


It would be a 6 figure sum in rent plus the cost of more stock, staffing and then overheads. It all quickly adds up and your hunting for turnover just short of a 7 figure sum just to cover the costs.


Its also worth pointing out the busiest time in the Frenchgate is Saturday between 2-5. You'd think anyone half hearted in Rovers would be spending that time at the Keepmoat for 23 of those 52 Saturdays a year?

Why is sports direct thriving?

I'm sure the 6 figure sum includes all the overheads inc staffing.

Not every fan goes to games on a regular basis, don't forget the women shopping whilst the men are at footy.

If rovers had a club shop in frenchgate, and ran it we'll with GOOD STOCK . It would thrive.  The previous one failed to its poor (cheap) location.

But first things first , the club shop at the stadium needs sorting.  With a proper decor, good stock, friendly competent staff etc.  it is poor by today's standards.

Well we agree at last finally. I had to make the trip with are lass to the busy club shop today @ 3:30 (duty called along with Xmas shopping at the outlet).

Guess what we were the only ones in ( not the first time) and I came away with my annual replica top having perused the generally shite stock. Before leaving I was asked if there was owt else I would like and I replied ......a decent club shop !!
There is nothing in it for our supporters spare the odd beanie hat or new kit. Nothing seasonal well just ......NOTHING  really.
No wonder we struggle to get market share of support in our own back yard. It needs sorting pronto.

[albie]

Not a bad idea that, Sammy Chung!

A Rovers loyalty card, like the supermarkets do to persuade return custom. If you could tie up with local business to offer a small discount to holders it keeps the ball rolling. It boils down to how you add value to the basic product, in a way that makes sense to people.

The basic package needs to be set right so people are not disappointed with the experience though. Catering and bar arrangements have got to be on the button, and reasonably priced as well.

[Filo]

It might cost a 6 figure sum in rent, but the potential income from a shop at the frenchgate is alot bigger.
Not to mention the potential ticket sales, town centre presence etc.

Now THATS investment worthwhile.

So why did Streetwise go bust?


The shop the club had in the town centre was also removed because it simply wasn't making enough as I remember.


It would be a 6 figure sum in rent plus the cost of more stock, staffing and then overheads. It all quickly adds up and your hunting for turnover just short of a 7 figure sum just to cover the costs.


Its also worth pointing out the busiest time in the Frenchgate is Saturday between 2-5. You'd think anyone half hearted in Rovers would be spending that time at the Keepmoat for 23 of those 52 Saturdays a year?

Why is sports direct thriving?

I'm sure the 6 figure sum includes all the overheads inc staffing.

Not every fan goes to games on a regular basis, don't forget the women shopping whilst the men are at footy.

If rovers had a club shop in frenchgate, and ran it we'll with GOOD STOCK . It would thrive.  The previous one failed to its poor (cheap) location.

But first things first , the club shop at the stadium needs sorting.  With a proper decor, good stock, friendly competent staff etc.  it is poor by today's standards.

Why is Sports Direct thriving?

Probably because it has multiple stores all over the country, all able to subsidise each other with their stack em high sell em cheap strategy

[acko]

we could have tested the water by having one of those stalls in the middle of the walkways

[Lifelong supporter]

i would suggest that most people who are talking about investment on here are really talking about short term gambling.

Investment, certainly for the long term, should be put into the club infrastructure and concentrate on the youth and academy setup.

You mean the same investment already previously provided and concentrating on the youth and academy set up that has produced one saleable asset in the last 15 years? That doesn't sound like a great business plan to me.

That's not what I said.

How strange.
My eyes must be going funny.

[walter the red]

Sorry Acko,can you imagine what would happen to a stall if the Barnsley supporters et al. came charging through off the trains/buses and saw a Rovers stall in the middle of the walkways ??

[silent majority]

i would suggest that most people who are talking about investment on here are really talking about short term gambling.

Investment, certainly for the long term, should be put into the club infrastructure and concentrate on the youth and academy setup.

You mean the same investment already previously provided and concentrating on the youth and academy set up that has produced one saleable asset in the last 15 years? That doesn't sound like a great business plan to me.

That's not what I said.

How strange.
My eyes must be going funny.

Obviously! You made a statement based very loosely on what I said. The very fact that you introduced the words 'you mean the' suggests that you interpretated what I said, wrongly as it happens!

[bfdoncaster west]

wen can we do a  stadium name change

[BillyStubbsTears]

When we summon up the b*llocks to call the stadium what it always should have been called.

The Black Bank.

[Wellred]

When we summon up the b*llocks to call the stadium what it always should have been called.

The Black Bank.

Hmmm not sure that is pc 

[Lifelong supporter]

i would suggest that most people who are talking about investment on here are really talking about short term gambling.

Investment, certainly for the long term, should be put into the club infrastructure and concentrate on the youth and academy setup.

You mean the same investment already previously provided and concentrating on the youth and academy set up that has produced one saleable asset in the last 15 years? That doesn't sound like a great business plan to me.

That's not what I said.

How strange.
My eyes must be going funny.

Obviously! You made a statement based very loosely on what I said. The very fact that you introduced the words 'you mean the' suggests that you interpretated what I said, wrongly as it happens!

Have you ever thought of standing for parliament?

[Dutch Uncle]

My understanding is that season ticket sales went down year on year from the first Championship season.

However, don't know about the mythical beast that is the floating Rovers supporter.

It is feasible that BB could be right about declining away supporters, although logic would suggest that it was our lot that buggered off, rather than Forest, Leeds, Newcastle etc.

Unless someone can disprove BB with stats on overall home support, rather than just season tickets?

Home/Away split at home games:
                Ave Att     Home      Visitors
2008-09   11964   10449   1515
2009-10   10992   9582   1410
2010-11   10258   9058   1200
2011-12   9341   8000   1341
2012-13   7239   6814   425 (League 1)
2013-14   9041   7130   1911

So home support went down significantly each Championship season

On the overall subject of investment, last night I saw the documentary (The Club that Vanished) about Gretna and Brooks Mileson (wasn't he involved with Rovers at one stage?). For every Bournemouth there are several clubs like Gretna, Rushden & Diamonds, Portsmouth and Darlington. Beware the Icarus effect.

[Dutch Uncle]

When we summon up the b*llocks to call the stadium what it always should have been called.

The Black Bank.

Or the Red Bank in homage to the colour of our Bank Balance that so many supporters wish to see..... 

[The Red Baron]

My understanding is that season ticket sales went down year on year from the first Championship season.

However, don't know about the mythical beast that is the floating Rovers supporter.

It is feasible that BB could be right about declining away supporters, although logic would suggest that it was our lot that buggered off, rather than Forest, Leeds, Newcastle etc.

Unless someone can disprove BB with stats on overall home support, rather than just season tickets?

Home/Away split at home games:
                Ave Att     Home      Visitors
2008-09   11964   10449   1515
2009-10   10992   9582   1410
2010-11   10258   9058   1200
2011-12   9341   8000   1341
2012-13   7239   6814   425 (League 1)
2013-14   9041   7130   1911

So home support went down significantly each Championship season

On the overall subject of investment, last night I saw the documentary (The Club that Vanished) about Gretna and Brooks Mileson (wasn't he involved with Rovers at one stage?). For every Bournemouth there are several clubs like Gretna, Rushden & Diamonds, Portsmouth and Darlington. Beware the Icarus effect.

Fascinating programme about Gretna. I don't think Mileson was ever involved with Rovers but he was a big pal of Trevor "the Major" Milton which led to speculation that he might get involved.

[Drover]

My understanding is that season ticket sales went down year on year from the first Championship season.

However, don't know about the mythical beast that is the floating Rovers supporter.

It is feasible that BB could be right about declining away supporters, although logic would suggest that it was our lot that buggered off, rather than Forest, Leeds, Newcastle etc.

Unless someone can disprove BB with stats on overall home support, rather than just season tickets?

Home/Away split at home games:
                Ave Att     Home      Visitors
2008-09   11964   10449   1515
2009-10   10992   9582   1410
2010-11   10258   9058   1200
2011-12   9341   8000   1341
2012-13   7239   6814   425 (League 1)
2013-14   9041   7130   1911

So home support went down significantly each Championship season

On the overall subject of investment, last night I saw the documentary (The Club that Vanished) about Gretna and Brooks Mileson (wasn't he involved with Rovers at one stage?). For every Bournemouth there are several clubs like Gretna, Rushden & Diamonds, Portsmouth and Darlington. Beware the Icarus effect.

Fascinating programme about Gretna. I don't think Mileson was ever involved with Rovers but he was a big pal of Trevor "the Major" Milton which led to speculation that he might get involved.

TRB,I believe your right about Mileson and Milton.I think previously he was a board member or chairman at Scarborough but he said he was frustrated at not being able to get the people,business's or community involved with the club and investment etc,so he left.Though how Gretna provided more than Scarborough Im not sure.Maybe why they vanished.Wish I'd seen the program

[Filo]

My understanding is that season ticket sales went down year on year from the first Championship season.

However, don't know about the mythical beast that is the floating Rovers supporter.

It is feasible that BB could be right about declining away supporters, although logic would suggest that it was our lot that buggered off, rather than Forest, Leeds, Newcastle etc.

Unless someone can disprove BB with stats on overall home support, rather than just season tickets?

Home/Away split at home games:
                Ave Att     Home      Visitors
2008-09   11964   10449   1515
2009-10   10992   9582   1410
2010-11   10258   9058   1200
2011-12   9341   8000   1341
2012-13   7239   6814   425 (League 1)
2013-14   9041   7130   1911

So home support went down significantly each Championship season

On the overall subject of investment, last night I saw the documentary (The Club that Vanished) about Gretna and Brooks Mileson (wasn't he involved with Rovers at one stage?). For every Bournemouth there are several clubs like Gretna, Rushden & Diamonds, Portsmouth and Darlington. Beware the Icarus effect.

Fascinating programme about Gretna. I don't think Mileson was ever involved with Rovers but he was a big pal of Trevor "the Major" Milton which led to speculation that he might get involved.

TRB,I believe your right about Mileson and Milton.I think previously he was a board member or chairman at Scarborough but he said he was frustrated at not being able to get the people,business's or community involved with the club and investment etc,so he left.Though how Gretna provided more than Scarborough Im not sure.Maybe why they vanished.Wish I'd seen the program

Never saw the programme, but didn't Gretna vanish when Mileson stopped funding them after he was diagnosed with a terminal condition?

[bfdoncaster west]

wot documentary that

[Dutch Uncle]

'The Club that Vanished' on Sky Sports last night - probably be repeated soon.

IMHO worth watching.

[DonnyNoel]

wot documentary that

It was called "The Club That Vanished" on sky sports last night about Gretna. They were Scottish non-league for a long time until a wealthy owner pumped a load of money in which shot them up the league. Unfortunately they were totally reliant on his cash so when he fell ill the club folded almost overnight.

[bfdoncaster west]

how did swansea fc do it

[silent majority]

i would suggest that most people who are talking about investment on here are really talking about short term gambling.

Investment, certainly for the long term, should be put into the club infrastructure and concentrate on the youth and academy setup.

You mean the same investment already previously provided and concentrating on the youth and academy set up that has produced one saleable asset in the last 15 years? That doesn't sound like a great business plan to me.

That's not what I said.

How strange.
My eyes must be going funny.

Obviously! You made a statement based very loosely on what I said. The very fact that you introduced the words 'you mean the' suggests that you interpretated what I said, wrongly as it happens!

Have you ever thought of standing for parliament?

Have you actually though about reading what I wrote instead of trying to find fault at every opportunity? I said ' Investment, certainly for the long term, should be put into the club infrastructure'.

That's a point you continue to ignore, and yet you keep referring to our youth setup over the last 15 years, again something I didn't allude to. I'm quite clearly talking about where I believe the investment should be and not what has gone before. Why are you being so obtuse?

[bfdoncaster west]

who you replay to

[Glyn_Wigley]

i would suggest that most people who are talking about investment on here are really talking about short term gambling.

Investment, certainly for the long term, should be put into the club infrastructure and concentrate on the youth and academy setup.

You mean the same investment already previously provided and concentrating on the youth and academy set up that has produced one saleable asset in the last 15 years? That doesn't sound like a great business plan to me.

That's not what I said.

How strange.
My eyes must be going funny.

Obviously! You made a statement based very loosely on what I said. The very fact that you introduced the words 'you mean the' suggests that you interpretated what I said, wrongly as it happens!

Have you ever thought of standing for parliament?

Have you actually though about reading what I wrote instead of trying to find fault at every opportunity? I said ' Investment, certainly for the long term, should be put into the club infrastructure'.

That's a point you continue to ignore, and yet you keep referring to our youth setup over the last 15 years, again something I didn't allude to. I'm quite clearly talking about where I believe the investment should be and not what has gone before. Why are you being so obtuse?

It only highlights what a shambles the youth programme was before. Perhaps it should have had more investment than it did?

[Dutch Uncle]

how did swansea fc do it

Good question

IMHO they have a few advantages over Rovers. First their new ground is bigger than the Keepmoat (just over 20K) and they have managed to attract significantly better attendances than Rovers. (Their 3 seasons in League 1 and 3 in the Championship averaged 14112, 12728, 13520, 15195, 15407 and 15507). This puts them IMHO more or less one league above us. There is only Cardiff anywhere near and believe me not one Swansea person will ever go and support Cardiff in any sport - their challenge has been to take and keep supporters from within a Rugby dominated sporting nation. There has been some investment - I don't know figures but until they reached the Premier league and its riches I would guess their investment was some way less than say Bournemouth.

They have had a succession of inspired choices of manager (except possibly Souza and he did no real harm) - in particular Martinez and Rodgers and have always stuck to a SOD-like passing game. They were probably much more fortunate than Rovers with injuries in the Championship, and won promotion through the playoffs - always needs some luck. What they have done really well is use the TV income of the Premiership brilliantly to stabilise, and of course winning the League Cup and having a season in Europe has also helped. They have also somehow had successful high scoring strikers (Scotland, Sinclair, Michu and now Bony)

An example for all to follow ......................  if you can average 15K+ in the Championship.

Edit: P.S. I am originally from Swansea and still follow their fortunes