investment

[bfdoncaster west]

why can drfc not do that

[bfdoncaster west]

wot club modall wood you fowlow

[Dutch Uncle]

why can drfc not do that

IMHO not quite enough fans in the Championship (9k as opposed to 15K) , and not enough luck at the important times at that level. Several clubs have gone up to the Premiership on ca 15K average but none on 9K. What Swansea magnificently and nearly uniquely have achieved is the stability in the Prem (watch them drop like a stone now  ).   

[Dutch Uncle]

wot club modall wood you fowlow

Swansea is as good as any .......... but I don't think it will get us above the Championship

I personally would not be happy with the Chelsea, Bournemouth, Gretna, Fleetwood, Rushden & Diamonds billionaire temporary benefactor model

[acko]

when you talk of SODs passing game it got boring like watching crabs play,brisol city was greatly impressed history in football is people will watch a winning team no matter how the play you play to your strengths and the quality of players bit like wimbledon in there hayday. and what could be a better advert for investment than wigan over the last few yearnon league to prem and f.a cup winners and in europe,all that in a rugby dominated town

[bfdoncaster west]

why not buy land aroad doncaster and blad on it then put profee in to club

[Bentley Bullet]

My understanding is that season ticket sales went down year on year from the first Championship season.

However, don't know about the mythical beast that is the floating Rovers supporter.

It is feasible that BB could be right about declining away supporters, although logic would suggest that it was our lot that buggered off, rather than Forest, Leeds, Newcastle etc.

Unless someone can disprove BB with stats on overall home support, rather than just season tickets?

Home/Away split at home games:
                Ave Att     Home      Visitors
2008-09   11964   10449   1515
2009-10   10992   9582   1410
2010-11   10258   9058   1200
2011-12   9341   8000   1341
2012-13   7239   6814   425 (League 1)
2013-14   9041   7130   1911

So home support went down significantly each Championship season

Thanks for the figures DU. They confirm my suspicion that away fans attendance, which fell by roughly the same percentage as the home fans over the first three seasons, did play a part in the seasons average drop in crowds, although admittedly not as considerable as I suspected.

However the figures don't tell the whole story, and definitely not the one I was getting at. My point was that home crowds increased when the team was having a good spell, and decreased when it wasn't.

The average attendances of a season don't give details of the ups and downs on the pitch at specific times, and the trends of increased and decreased gates that they cause. My claim that attendances were results related to this  was confirmed by Mr Croft's graph in this thread.

Mr Croft's graph also confirms the effects of the recession during this period.

[IDM]

why can drfc not do that

IMHO not quite enough fans in the Championship (9k as opposed to 15K) , and not enough luck at the important times at that level. Several clubs have gone up to the Premiership on ca 15K average but none on 9K. What Swansea magnificently and nearly uniquely have achieved is the stability in the Prem (watch them drop like a stone now  ).   

I remember I think it was season 09/10 we played away at Blackpool close to Easter.  We lost 2-0, but had we won we would have had the same points (give or take 1 or 2 - can't remember exactly) as Blackpool, who then went on to reach and win the play offs.    Fine lines again, could have been us - even with the crowds we were getting then.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Another consequence of the recession seems to be more people working weekends and more youngsters going into the service sector. This must affect peoples ability to attend as much as they would like. Flexibility in multi tickets/memberships are the future. If we can get the home form going then we might get people believing again, but I don't think we'll see 10k home fans for a long time.

[Boomstick]

why can drfc not do that

IMHO not quite enough fans in the Championship (9k as opposed to 15K) , and not enough luck at the important times at that level. Several clubs have gone up to the Premiership on ca 15K average but none on 9K. What Swansea magnificently and nearly uniquely have achieved is the stability in the Prem (watch them drop like a stone now  ).   

Blackpool, Wigan, and burley went up on sub 15k crowds

[Filo]

We need the Doncaster Rovers breeding programme!

If every Rovers fan fathers two kids and introduces them to Rovers from birth then eventually our attendances should double in a generation, so get cracking boys! :-)

[Boomstick]

In my opinion, selling Wellens and mills for f**k all, and letting green go without a proper fight killed the positive vibe at the club.
This coincided with a hike in ticket prices, it stopped people coming and signalled the clubs (lack of) ambition.

[Filo]

In my opinion, selling Wellens and mills for f**k all, and letting green go without a proper fight killed the positive vibe at the club.
This coincided with a hike in ticket prices, it stopped people coming and signalled the clubs (lack of) ambition.

Did buying Sharp signal a lack of ambition?

[bfdoncaster west]

why did we not buy Sharp bfor leed

[Dutch Uncle]

why can drfc not do that

IMHO not quite enough fans in the Championship (9k as opposed to 15K) , and not enough luck at the important times at that level. Several clubs have gone up to the Premiership on ca 15K average but none on 9K. What Swansea magnificently and nearly uniquely have achieved is the stability in the Prem (watch them drop like a stone now  ).   

Blackpool, Wigan, and burley went up on sub 15k crowds

Burnley went up averaging 13082 and 13722 - nearer to 15K than 9K, but are definitely a good example and worth learning from

Wigan averaged 11571 - possibly within our reach - but their billionaire has bankrolled far more than we could realistically expect here. They were able to average more than 20K in their first Premier League season and not far off that subsequently, which helped them stay a while

I had forgotten Blackpool who managed it on an average of 8611 - but as IDM points out earlier - it was fine lines and with 6 games to go they were only just ahead of us. Also they were in the middle of building a ground extension, and were able to average 15779 in their only Premiership season.  However they are an example of what can happen when the cash runs out - look at them now. I would not swap with them.

I guess what I was really trying to say is that either establishing yourself in the Premiership or having a soft landing on less than 15K is very difficult, and crash and burn is a real danger. By the way Swansea did exactly that in the 1980's.

[wilts rover]

There was one major reason why Swansea were able to rise up through the leagues that other clubs didnt have, the help from their local council, and it is now being investigated by the EU. Do people remember when the Keepmoat was built and Andy Liney & JR saying what a great deal they had done on the rent for Rovers playing there? Then later it was re-negotiated to c£1m. How much do you think Swansea were paying in a bigger stadium with larger crowds?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-25559959

[Filo]

Yes Swansea went from 4th division to 1st division and back again. In 8 years in the late 70's Early 80's

[DearneValleyRover]

In my opinion, selling Wellens and mills for f*** all, and letting green go without a proper fight killed the positive vibe at the club.
This coincided with a hike in ticket prices, it stopped people coming and signalled the clubs (lack of) ambition.

£3.7m is f*** all to us then because remind me how many players we have sold for that amount? Selling Brian Deane for bugger all would be more apt but that wouldn't sit with your board bashing theories would it.

[Filo]

In my opinion, selling Wellens and mills for f*** all, and letting green go without a proper fight killed the positive vibe at the club.
This coincided with a hike in ticket prices, it stopped people coming and signalled the clubs (lack of) ambition.

£3.7m is f*** all to us then because remind me how many players we have sold for that amount? Selling Brian Deane for bugger all would be more apt but that wouldn't sit with your board bashing theories would it.

There's many other similar examples as well, selling Ian Snodin to Leeds for £200k, Mark Rankine to Wolves for £70k, Rufus Brevitt to QPR for £250k, all players that we were massivley ripped off for when selling them

[BillyStubbsTears]

In my opinion, selling Wellens and mills for f*** all, and letting green go without a proper fight killed the positive vibe at the club.
This coincided with a hike in ticket prices, it stopped people coming and signalled the clubs (lack of) ambition.

Wellens and Mills made it clear that they wanted to leave. Clubs have little choice when players exercise that power.

Green left because the club didn't offer him a contract early enough in our promotion season, because O'Driscoll didn't rate him.

The season after Green left, we finished in our highest position for 50 years.

The season after Wellens and Mills left, we finished 2 places higher still.

The season after that, we would have gone into 4th place in the Championship after 18 matches if we hadn't conceded a last minute equaliser after out-playing a team that has gone on to become an accomplished Premier League club.

But who care about facts, eh? Boomstick has decided that it was all down to lack of ambition.

[bpoolrover]

Agree if a player wants to go it's better to let them go

[acko]

suarez and ronaldo wanted to leave but the clubs got the right price for them

[IDM]

Did we get the wrong prices for Wellens and Mills from where they were to where they went?

Were they/have they been premier league regulars, or internationals?  If not, then the prices may have been right!

[bpoolrover]

Agree idm while both good players the price seemed about right,same goes for billy sharp excellent in league 1 and the champ but never premier standard

[acko]

orient got 1mill for a fullback to brentford what did we get for husband peanuts

[Mr1Croft]

how did swansea fc do it

Good question

IMHO they have a few advantages over Rovers. First their new ground is bigger than the Keepmoat (just over 20K) and they have managed to attract significantly better attendances than Rovers. (Their 3 seasons in League 1 and 3 in the Championship averaged 14112, 12728, 13520, 15195, 15407 and 15507). This puts them IMHO more or less one league above us. There is only Cardiff anywhere near and believe me not one Swansea person will ever go and support Cardiff in any sport - their challenge has been to take and keep supporters from within a Rugby dominated sporting nation. There has been some investment - I don't know figures but until they reached the Premier league and its riches I would guess their investment was some way less than say Bournemouth.

They have had a succession of inspired choices of manager (except possibly Souza and he did no real harm) - in particular Martinez and Rodgers and have always stuck to a SOD-like passing game. They were probably much more fortunate than Rovers with injuries in the Championship, and won promotion through the playoffs - always needs some luck. What they have done really well is use the TV income of the Premiership brilliantly to stabilise, and of course winning the League Cup and having a season in Europe has also helped. They have also somehow had successful high scoring strikers (Scotland, Sinclair, Michu and now Bony)

An example for all to follow ......................  if you can average 15K+ in the Championship.

Edit: P.S. I am originally from Swansea and still follow their fortunes

Whilst no longer a Premier League club, the story at Norwich is just as great and mainly built on the fantastic attendances they got. Even as a League One Club they still got 19000 Season Ticket Holders and an average crowd of only 2000 less than what they would average in the Premier League 2 years later.

[Bentley Bullet]

Didn't a Championship club offer 2 million+  for Sharp but he didn't want to go at the time, so ended up going for about half that price a few months later? My point being that he was worth more than he was sold for because his contract allowed him to leave when an offer came in equalling he amount Rovers paid for him.

[bfdoncaster west]

who mode wood you flolow

[Mr1Croft]

who mode wood you flolow

The Doncaster Rovers Model...

[bfdoncaster west]

wot uv club