Doncaster North, Miliband & UKIP

[BillyStubbsTears]

Been a bit of a political flap going on this last weekend.

Last week, there was a poll conducted in a Doncaster North, by Lord Ashcroft (the multi-billionaire tax-dodger who spends millions conducting polls on marginals to help the Tories target their election resources).

Anyway, Ashcroft's massive finding was that Miliband was in trouble. UKIP had surged. Labour's vote was down on 2010. UKIP were only 12% behind Labour, with a big Tory vote to squeeze.  Looked like this was a chance for a big scalp for Farage. Queue loads of "Miliband in Trouble" headlines and much froth in the Twittersphere.

Turns out it was all b*llocks. The man who can pay people a fortune to do clever sums so he doesn't have to pay any tax, clearly doesn't pay his polling staff very much. Because they had factored the numbers all wrong. When they've re-done them today, it turns out  Miliband's vote is up by nearly 8% on 2010, and he's 30% ahead of UKIP.

Miliband will win Doncaster North by a street. But I'll guarantee you that there will be loads of people who have read the papers this weekend, who think that he is in deep, deep trouble.

[Filo]

The wrong figures will have sowed a seed in the waverers mind, they'll think UKIP will win the seat and may vote for them


P.S. Our UKIP champion Mick has been missing for nearly a month now, has Farage ordered the repatriation of descendants of Irish immigrants

[BillyStubbsTears]

He'll be back with another identity soon enough.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I think it's a measure of the situation that the best labour news recently has been this, little talk of breakthrough or policy but simply just staying in the game in one of the safest seats they have according to this poll.

All the majour parties have problems at the moment, nobody is really doing well.

[GazLaz]

Labour seem a shambles to me at the minute. I think their problems stem simply from the lack of belief in their leader by the party.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Gaz

I'm genuinely interested in what you think the problem with Miliband is.

Seems to me that he's made the political weather throughout this Parliament.

He led the political attack on the tabloids in Hackgate
He's raised the issue of energy price rises outstripping gas costs
He's raised the issue about underfunding of the NHS
He's raised the issue of the fact that the proceeds of growth are going disproportionately to the wealthy.

On every one of those issues, he's led the agenda and had the Tories trailing behind, coming up with policies to answer the agenda. And yet, apparently, he's a crap political leader. I'm genuinely interested in why people think that.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Gaz

I'm genuinely interested in what you think the problem with Miliband is.

Seems to me that he's made the political weather throughout this Parliament.

He led the political attack on the tabloids in Hackgate
He's raised the issue of energy price rises outstripping gas costs
He's raised the issue about underfunding of the NHS
He's raised the issue of the fact that the proceeds of growth are going disproportionately to the wealthy.

On every one of those issues, he's led the agenda and had the Tories trailing behind, coming up with policies to answer the agenda. And yet, apparently, he's a crap political leader. I'm genuinely interested in why people think that.

Because in the shallow times in which we live, image and style are more important than substance. It's only a matter of time before politics is completely reduced to the X Factor.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Regarding the media reporting of Ashcroft's wrong poll, it's no surprise that the Mail weighed in.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2855461/ANDREW-PIERCE-Clegg-Red-Ed-ex-MPs.html

That post, to be fair, was written before Ashcroft admitted hm that his staff can't add up. But the Mail article was updated this morning and there is not a word about the actual numbers.

[River Don]

Ed Miliband is not proving very popular, he isn't winning peoples trust.

It isn't so much his policies.

I think he doesn't come across well enough on TV. He looks very youthful, I know all political leaders these days are much younger but Ed looks like the head boy. I don't think he looks like he has the experience required to sort the economy out. He's lacking character and charisma.

I just don't think people see him as Prime Minister material.

That said despite all that he still might make it into office.

[bobjimwilly]

Because in the shallow times in which we live, image and style are more important than substance. It's only a matter of time before politics is completely reduced to the X Factor.

Nail on head I'm afraid to say.

[River Don]

In lots of ways a general election is just a popularity contest now.

We live in an image driven world.

[jucyberry]

I find it so sad that far too many people seem to think the way Ed eats a bacon butty is more important than working hard for the country.

I find it amazing that all the tories seem to be able to do to discredit him is take the piss out of the way he eats.

How many of you have seen the #cameronmustgo trend on twitter? We are on target for a million tweets by Saturday, This isn't a few 'lefties' having a lark, many of the tweets are heart rending, many extremely thought provoking.

Somehow I cannot ever see Ed Milliband sit and giggle with his coked up mate whilst listening to the true stories of hardship being read out by the opposition the way Cameron, Osbourne and IDS do every time Labour read out their constituents suffering.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I find it so sad that far too many people seem to think the way Ed eats a bacon butty is more important than working hard for the country.

I find it amazing that all the tories seem to be able to do to discredit him is take the piss out of the way he eats.

How many of you have seen the #cameronmustgo trend on twitter? We are on target for a million tweets by Saturday, This isn't a few 'lefties' having a lark, many of the tweets are heart rending, many extremely thought provoking.

Somehow I cannot ever see Ed Milliband sit and giggle with his coked up mate whilst listening to the true stories of hardship being read out by the opposition the way Cameron, Osbourne and IDS do every time Labour read out their constituents suffering.

Don't forget the ridiculously desperate hatchet job the Tory press (the Mail, I think?) did on his Dad as a means of trying to smear him by association. Disgusting, but indicative of the depths they'll stoop to.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I've said before that Churchill would be crucified by today's media. Racist, sexist, alcoholic, manic depressive and a face like a smacked arse.

Thank God we didn't have Trevor Kavanagh and Paul Dacre in 1940.

[Glyn_Wigley]

He wouldn't be if he did what the newspaper owners wanted him to do. That's how it works.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's fascinating that the complaints seem to be entirely about image.

There's some clever folk on here, and not one has so much as mentioned policy. It's a truly depressing thought.

Personally, I'd thought that people would have woken up to electing people based on how slick they are on TV, following the last election. Clegg was the darling who looked smooth and suave. Trouble was, he was also prepared to Dutch every principle to get into Govt.

Looks like I was too optimistic in people's ability to look beyond the facade.

[River Don]

Glyn

I'm not sure how crucial the newspapers are these days but Tony Blair made sure he got Murdoch on his side.

BST

I think it is about image, I bet if you went out on the street and asked people to name a Labour policy they might be struggling. Perhaps some would mention the energy price freeze.

There is something about Ed that people don't like, a lot of opinion polls are saying that. MPs are saying people tell them they'd vote Labour but they don't like the leader.

Churchill liked the wireless, he knew it was his medium. I don't think he thought much of TV did he?

[jonrover]

Heard an interesting tale about Farage and his prospects in North Doncaster the other week.

Apparently, during the recent conference in September, Farage went on a bit of a tour of the area, in a factory or two, cafes ect. As part of the tour he has arranged for a over 45s snooker team to be in a local WMC in North Doncaster for a surprise lunchtime session and had a few quid put behind the bar to buy them a pint before he arrived.

So, Farage turns up (through the back entrance...which is bizarre considering he wants to park his tanks on the lawn...seems more guerrilla-esque to me?) and waltzes in bold as brass expecting to be welcomed with open arms, only for the old lads to put down their pints, pay for them and walk out leaving the berk stood in an empty boozer with his entourage. Seems they don't suffer fools gladly. Or Thatcherites.

 

[GazLaz]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/dec/03/leaving-labour-green-party-social-change

Views of a recent defector.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Another middle class w**ker indulging his conscience instead of making the hard decisions. Reminds me of the comfortable middle class prof I know, lifelong Labour supporter who in 2010 voted LD "to teach Labour a lesson about Iraq". Good call. What he actually helped to do by "teaching Labour a lesson" was to bring in the Bedroom Tax and a tax cut for millionaires.

Now, split the vote on the Left by voting Green and you get another 5 years of Cameron and Osborne, quite possibly in coalition with Farage. But if it makes you feel good about yourself Mr Stein...

[RobTheRover]

Clegg was the darling who looked smooth and suave. Trouble was, he was also prepared to Dutch every principle to get into Govt.

From Private Eye.....

[Glyn_Wigley]

The article about FIFA in the current issue is worth reading too.

[Glyn_Wigley]

The latest piece of b*llocks from Farage is an absolute classic.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-30370570

Damn those immigrants and all those cars they bring with them!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Phew! Must've been a big influx of immigrants last week if the journey time went up from 3.5 hours to 6.25 hours with absolutely no warning.

[Glyn_Wigley]

And surely Farage must be happy that they're all bypassing England and heading straight for Wales!!

[IC1967]

Here's what he said. "That is nothing to do with professionalism, what it does have to do with is a population that is going through the roof chiefly because of open-door immigration and the fact that the M4 is not as navigable as it used to be."

Thank goodness there are politicians around who are prepared to say it as it is. It's obvious that the roads are going to be busier if we allow millions of immigrants in. We don't ban them from driving you know. We are a densely populated island and our roads are too full in many parts of the UK. The main reason they are too full is because we have a lot of people using them. Allowing millions of immigrants into the country is obviously going to make matters worse.

The laughable thing about you lefties having a go at Nige is that you are are incapable of working out that the less people driving the less busy the roads will be, therefore journey times will be shorter. The more people driving, the longer journey times will be. Duh. Why are journey times increasing? Because more people are driving. Where have the vast bulk of these extra drivers come from? Foreign countries. Duh.

[Filo]

@HAtraffic_yorks: M4 eastbound between J13 and J12 | Accident http://t.co/lQYxrUdu63

f**king immigrants

[BobG]

Would I be right, 1967, if I were to think that your view of those English people who choose to live overseas in other EU countries would all be scroungers, layabouts and good for nothings?

I'm asking as I'm contemplating doing that very thing. I'd hate to be conssidered a member of a group such as that you know.

Cheers

BobG

[Glyn_Wigley]

Here's what he said. "That is nothing to do with professionalism, what it does have to do with is a population that is going through the roof chiefly because of open-door immigration and the fact that the M4 is not as navigable as it used to be."

Thank goodness there are politicians around who are prepared to say it as it is. It's obvious that the roads are going to be busier if we allow millions of immigrants in. We don't ban them from driving you know. We are a densely populated island and our roads are too full in many parts of the UK. The main reason they are too full is because we have a lot of people using them. Allowing millions of immigrants into the country is obviously going to make matters worse.

The laughable thing about you lefties having a go at Nige is that you are are incapable of working out that the less people driving the less busy the roads will be, therefore journey times will be shorter. The more people driving, the longer journey times will be. Duh. Why are journey times increasing? Because more people are driving. Where have the vast bulk of these extra drivers come from? Foreign countries. Duh.

And they all happened to be going to Wales at the same time as him and made him more than three hours late?? Duh.

[IC1967]

Would I be right, 1967, if I were to think that your view of those English people who choose to live overseas in other EU countries would all be scroungers, layabouts and good for nothings?

I'm asking as I'm contemplating doing that very thing. I'd hate to be conssidered a member of a group such as that you know.

Cheers

BobG

You'd be completely, utterly wrong. I can't for the life of me understand why you think I believe immigrants from other EU countries are scroungers, layabouts and good for nothings. I don't, and I have posted nothing that gives this impression. If you or anyone else can find where I've given this impression then I'd be grateful if you could copy and paste it. However I wouldn't bother looking as you'll be completely wasting your time.

So once again I will try and clarify my views. I believe the following:

Immigration is on balance, good for the country.

We need immigration to try and help solve the ticking time bomb that is an ageing population.

Nearly all immigrants come here to work not claim benefits.

Nearly all immigrants are thoroughly decent hard working people.

We should control the numbers coming in.

An open door policy is lunacy and puts increased strain on our infrastructure and public services.

I have no problem with you emigrating as long as the country you are going to is happy for you to come.

Other countries will not ban the British from coming if we pull out of the EU.

Other countries will not repatriate existing British people  if we pull out of the EU.

Poor British people do not emigrate to other EU countries for a better life.

Millions of poor EU people come to Britain for a better life not because we need them but because we just let them in even if they are not the type of workers the economy needs.

Now I hope that clarifies where I'm coming from and I would appreciate it if you could do a little research into my views before labelling me in the disgraceful way that you have. If you are going to have a go at me then at least do me the favour of backing up what you say.