Orgreave

[BillyStubbsTears]

I AM aware of evidence being fabricated. It's in record from the collapsed proceedings against the miners who were on trial for riot. It's the reason the trials collapsed.

There were police statements where officers claimed to have witnessed certain actions by striking miners at certain times in the picket line at Orgreave. But the police log books showed categorically that, at the times in question, those officers were waiting in Sheffield city centre to be bussed out to Orgreave.

That is as smoking a gun as you could wish to find.



Then there are the more circumstantial bits of evidence. Other police statements, describing how, allegedly, the trouble was started by the miners. 31 statements using IDENTICAL sentences to described what happened. Coppers going on record stating that they were told what to write by senior officers whom they had never seen before.

[bally1950]

When in Rome. Do as the Romans do...Let us just wait.

[bally1950]

Surely you do not mean you believe SYP Logbooks especially after this week. But let the ones who represent the Government make the decisions eh, no good you and I going head to head for ever

[ravenrover]

As an aside to this I was a manager working in North Yorkshire during the strike, when members of the NUM started to return to work a number of pickets were arrested after following one of the buses taking the workers home. Having had their car searched a number of tools etc were found in the vehicle, it was common for tools etc to be "borrowed" for home  use. I received a call from Pontefract police one evening asking if I could call in to identify some items as being  British Coal property. None of the items were marked as B.C. property and could easily have been purchased by the accused, in all probability they were B.C. property but the main item they wanted me to identify was a pick axe handle. After stating that it could be B.C. property I was repeatedly asked to confirm that it WAS B.C. property which I refused to do insisting that it COULD be but not certainly the officer became very annoyed with me for not doing as he wanted. I suggest that this was an attempt to fabricate evidence by the Police against the accused men in order to prosecute them for theft
As an aside the men who were arrested and charged with other offences never knew of this as I actually new them, 1 of them was a member of my workforce.

[bally1950]

it would not have got past the CPS never mind into a Court Room. Well done for standing up for your principles. By the way . We were not all like that.

[BobG]

My Dad was a JP in Donny. He came home telling a story one evening, after a day on the Bench. Some lad, in his early 20's, had been brought up before the bench. Quite a pleasant lad my Dad said. The sort "You wouldn't mind your daughter marrying" he said. The charge? That one tyre, on this lads car, was underinflated. By 2 lbs. The Bench thought it rather odd that anybody should be brought before Court over something as daft as that. So they probed a bit. You can guess what the lads job was can't you? You don't need me telling you..... He got an absolute discharge.

Or the father of a mate of mine who worked on the railways. Driving down Carr House Road one sunny morning on his way to work, copper leaps out in front of him demanding he stop. So my mates' Dad pulled up, wound down the window and asked the obvious question. Copper leans in through the window, switches off the engine and pockets the key ring. "You're nicked" quoth he. My mates' Dad got carted off to the cop shop in town and was kept hanging about all damn day. When they did let him out, no apology, no explanation, no nothing. So he went to a solicitor and employed him to find out what was going on. Took a while, but in the end it turned out that coppers in a helicopter up high weren't as good at reading number plates as they thought they were. They were out nicking miners. On spec. No reason at all. Just that they were miners.

Or the retired headmaster who lived right opposite the pit gates in Armthorpe. He had turned to writing in his old age. On the day of the riot he watched it all from his front garden. Even had a couple of miners dash through his house as they avoided South Yorkshire's finest. He saw the coppers doing things that totally appalled him. But he made a mistake. He talked about what he'd seen and he talked about the article he was writing as a result.  He was, shall we say, visited.

They've been shameful for 30 years that bunch. My best friend joined South Yorkshire police in 1975 or 1976 as he couldn't think of anything better to do at the time. He left after a couple of years. He was adamant that 80% of S Yorks coppers would be in prison if they weren't in the police. And he was equally adamant that, above all else. they wanted opportunities to beat up people. Friday and Saturday nights round town, miners gatherings - manna from heaven. Blame it all on the drunks or the miners. Get away scot free after regularly committing gbh. In a nutshell that's what happened at Orgreave. Anyone else outside the gates at Rosso pit that day they had their riot? I happened to be there that day. It was quite a pleasant gethering. The miners were chanting and protesting. The coppers were having a bit of fun. It was all good natured. Everybody was getting on fine. Nobody was getting hurt.

Then a prat with lots of gold braid turned up in his chauffeur driven black limo. Looked at what was before him, marched over to some bod, presumably in charge on the ground, and gave him orders. The order must have been passed down the line of coppers beacuse the next thing was that every policeman started kicking the heels of their boots backwards into the shins of the miners behind their line. I watched them do it. And then all hell broke out.... All the miners fault of course don't you know. I was apoplectic watching the tv reports that night.

BobG

[Filo]

I was at the top of Hatfield pit lane near the pit club when the coppers batton charged a peacefull sit down picket, there was no provocation at all from the miners, but many of them got their heads cracked open, one of them spent weeks in a coma and suffered brain damage, he never worked again!

[bally1950]

I was at the top of Hatfield pit lane near the pit club when the coppers batton charged a peacefull sit down picket, there was no provocation at all from the miners, but many of them got their heads cracked open, one of them spent weeks in a coma and suffered brain damage, he never worked again!

Yes Filo, I know who you mean, little bloke on opposite side to school. Hated The Police ever since BUT the fishing competition I ran at Thorne every Thursday in summer holidays fromm 1999 until about 2004 he entered his son, knowing full well it was a Police organised competition He came to every single presentation night where thanks to The Delves (Pete and Derek) and all local businesses and local Anglers all the kids walked away with trophies and prizes around £100 each.

Yes I was aware of what had happened, he told me all about it but they were GMP he told me and NOT SYP,  He had no problem in sitting and talking to me, as you know he was from  Stainy and I am from Dunscroft, something I have never hidden and been very proud of

[bally1950]

BOB G.


You always strike me as an educated man who has posted many interesting threads and yes you have been told many things and seen many just as I have.

The Police doing the chasing at Armthorpe were from the GMP not South Yorkshire, I was on duty in Armthorpe Nick that day and we were told not to get involved.

The Rossington saga, yes the bobbies on the picket line that day were in part SYP but many from Visiting Forces who saw the strike to be a chance to kick shit out of Northerners. ON that day and at every issue the strikers knew it was not the local lads.

But back to Armthorpe, did the old boy tell you of the policeman from Armthorpe that used to park his Police car now and then (especially after the pickets beat up the BBC team and stole their camera) and this sole Policeman would chat to miners with his hands in his pockets and noriot gear on. I wonder. The same Policeman who actually did a deal with the miners that the camera would be found and handed in as found property which it was about 30mins after he departed.

Wee you ever told that when miners were stealing coal from the stack as reported by Security in the middle of the night just to keep their families warm that the local Police cars would approach with blues and twos as people call them blaring, just to ensure we caught nobody.

Or the night a lad was carrying a bag of coal on his bike in Beech Rd in the middle of the night, he saw a Police car dumped the bag and took off, the next morning the bag of coal was on his doorstep.

Or when the strike organisers were under threat of attack at home, the local NUM asked us to make periodic checks during the night on their homes to make sure their homes, them and their families were safe, we did that too. Two of those strike organisers played for Armthorpe FC and I do believe at one time one turned out for Donny.

Do not tar us all the same. Some retired Bobbies even save lives. You know that too

[StocktonRover]

I was at the top of Hatfield pit lane near the pit club when the coppers batton charged a peacefull sit down picket, there was no provocation at all from the miners, but many of them got their heads cracked open, one of them spent weeks in a coma and suffered brain damage, he never worked again!

Filo
I made a few appearances on the picket lines, that would have been a fitter with the initials AS.
I think it was that day when it all appeared good natured when the police lines split and "Snatch squads" darted through the opening and indiscriminately grabbed people there and dragged them back behind the lines for either arrest or a bit of a kicking.

If my memory is correct, AS had just got home from fishing, had heard the commotion and had come out into one of the alleys and was immediately set upon by the Police.
Another guy, an electrician (HH) was also collared that day and had cuffs put on his hands instead of wrists and suffered very serious injuries that as far as I'm aware left him with a permanent hand injury. despite asking for the cuffs to be put on correctly because of the pain, he was ignored and manhandled whilst incorrectly cuffed.

[Filo]

I was at the top of Hatfield pit lane near the pit club when the coppers batton charged a peacefull sit down picket, there was no provocation at all from the miners, but many of them got their heads cracked open, one of them spent weeks in a coma and suffered brain damage, he never worked again!

Filo
I made a few appearances on the picket lines, that would have been a fitter with the initials AS.
I think it was that day when it all appeared good natured when the police lines split and "Snatch squads" darted through the opening and indiscriminately grabbed people there and dragged them back behind the lines for either arrest or a bit of a kicking.

If my memory is correct, AS had just got home from fishing, had heard the commotion and had come out into one of the alleys and was immediately set upon by the Police.
Another guy, an electrician (HH) was also collared that day and had cuffs put on his hands instead of wrists and suffered very serious injuries that as far as I'm aware left him with a permanent hand injury. despite asking for the cuffs to be put on correctly because of the pain, he was ignored and manhandled whilst incorrectly cuffed.

Nearly correct, AS had been out looking for wasps nests to use as fishing bait, wasp grub was all the rage in those days for catching huge nets of Chub on the Trent.


The snatch squads were depoyed to batton anyone that got in the way, and they did, the union man DD organised the sit down picket, the Police reaction was way over the top, theres plenty of pics online of that day




Heres the sit down picket just before the pic above when the coppers were let loose

[bally1950]

Stockton...Yes HH a big Broadway lad who was in the documentary and would not piss on a copper if he was on fire deserved all he got the great big thug, know him well, although never had cause to argue with him at any time..You do know his uncle was a Copper, he was proud of that fact.   You Remember AB on first shift back at Hatfield Main and had a heart attack and died at the bottom. My cousin he was. I was told I must not go to his funeral by other cousins.  You remember the man in 1966 fell from top to bottom on a late shift on a Friday, becaise someone made a mistake with the cage. He was smashed to pieces when he hit the bottom. My uncle...We all have stories to tell.

[BobG]

It really doesn't matter, Bally, how good, or how bad, individual policemen and women are. I've met some really capable, competant and pleasant ones over the years. But they pale into insignificance in the light of the catalogue of corruption, of violence and of cavalier disregard for both the rule of law and those that actually pay their wages that this thread illustrates.

You can see how powerfully those misdeeds have impacted upon the police. And upon society generally. The miners strike is 30 odd years ago now - yet SYP are still blackened by it. Hillsborough was 27 years ago yet the whole country still can't forgive anyone connected with SYP for that. Orgreave? Another shameful episode so bad that no one is prepared to forgive SYP for it. Individual well meaning acts, individual honest police, don't stand a chance against the infamy that SYP have perpetrated over 30 odd years now. The whole lot of them is tarred and they'll never get rid of it. The only answer left is to do the same as happened to the B Specials. It would be a fitting end to another police organisation that continues to be totally out of control.

Remind me how many million quid SYP have just spent defending the indefensible in Court - after previously publicly apologising for the very things they've now just wasted yet more huge amounts of cash trying to defend. That's a force, a body, that is completely out of control right at the very top.

BobG

[bally1950]

No Further Comment

The Office is closed for redecoration.

[The Red Baron]

I see the Chief Constable of North Yorkshire has been put in interim charge of SYP- assuming he has no skeletons in his closet!

First step towards amalgamation of the Yorkshire forces perhaps?

[BobG]

It couldn't be any worse. It might be a whole heap better. Some sort of fundamental change is needed pdq so bring it on Looking at the tea leaves suggests that the Home Secretary is having a deep think at the moment.

BobG

[shaun from thorne]

One thing i remember was when the coppers on horseback chased us up emerson avenue we ran down the backs and one of the horses tried to turn up the backs and it fell over giving the pickets chance to get there own back on the copper trying to get back on his horse.

[bally1950]

Well. That is frank admission if ever I heard one. suppose it is alright for the readers on here
 

[Glyn_Wigley]

Well. That is frank admission if ever I heard one. suppose it is alright for the readers on here
 

Nobody's saying it's alright, but it's not the subject at hand. Everybody who's guilty of something should be brought to account for it.

[Sprotyrover]

Couple of points the Colour picture taken in Stainforth doesn't show any South Yorkshire Police officers,the guys in white shirts are Met the guys in blue shirts have Combs on their helmets,South Yorks police did not have combs.

There will never be a public enquirer whilst the Tories rule as it was a Tory Government which pulled the strings back then,Hillsborough had nowt to do with Tories,Orgreave and miners strike does.

[bally1950]

Well. That is frank admission if ever I heard one. suppose it is alright for the readers on here
 

Nobody's saying it's alright, but it's not the subject at hand. Everybody who's guilty of something should be brought to account for it.

Not going to happen though

[Glyn_Wigley]

Well. That is frank admission if ever I heard one. suppose it is alright for the readers on here
 

Nobody's saying it's alright, but it's not the subject at hand. Everybody who's guilty of something should be brought to account for it.

Not going to happen though

Due to evidence put before a court being fabricated and destroying any police credibility regarding the event, perhaps?

[bally1950]

Take away the Police presence, what reason would there be for 10,000 (if newspapers can be believed) be doing at a coking plant where people were trying to make a living and lorries were being by drivers trying to make a living, so what actually were they doing. Do you know that every motorway footbridge and road bridge had to be continuously manned until the lorries got into their destination. Can you explain the need, you seem to know an awful lot.

[Glyn_Wigley]

How many times do you have to be told..so what? This thread is about the perverting of the course of justice by someone in the SYP but no, you keep trying to evade the issue by trying to say 'the miners were guilty as well'. They may have been. I DON'T KNOW and I DON'T CARE, its irrelevant to the subject at hand.

The only way the actions or guilt of the miners would have any relevance to this thread would be if you were to argue that the fabrication of evidence was in some way BECAUSE of the actions of the miners or JUSTIFIABLE due to the actions of the miners.

[Savvy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-33091675

"If this happened now, absolutely the IPCC would be investigating it," she said."But what we can't do is wind back time to go back 30 years and redo what perhaps should have been done then."

Great eh?

You can be involved in a concerted attempt to lie and pervert the course of justice in order to get innocent men convicted of riot and sent to prison for up to 20 years, but if you can hold out for long enough, it will be brushed under the carpet.

Justice, British style.

There has to be statute of limitations that kicks in at some point ffs! And let's have it right some of the pockets were not exactly squeaky clean now were they? Old school policing back then and it's a pity it's not around nowadays! Just had to avoid the eleventh commandment!!!

[bally1950]

Well I have waited for someone to come on and say something that is sensible.

Thank you. Some just do not like the Police. In 1999 I got both a Force Award and a National Award in London from Prince Charles. Guess what it was for Glyn???

For being an old fashioned Bobby, for going where others would not, for giving plenty of knuckle out and regularly taking on 4 or 5 at once. It appears that in that era people respected proper Policing. I have never been afraid of going for a pint wherever I worked..  It was called respect. I will wait for your response then close the office for Summer so hurry up, the shutter is nearly down, But only if it is worth posting mind

[RedJ]

Not sure where fabricating evidence to try and get miners locked up comes into "proper policing".

[bally1950]

Not sure where fabricating evidence to try and get miners locked up comes into "proper policing".

I was not at Orgreave. I used to Police. Thorne. Moorends. Stainy. Armthorpe. Bawtry and Rosso on my own. Task Force. and something I will not divulge on here due to OSA.  But time I closed the Office, just like Hillsborough Office for redecorating.

Que Serra Serra.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Well I have waited for someone to come on and say something that is sensible.

Thank you. Some just do not like the Police. In 1999 I got both a Force Award and a National Award in London from Prince Charles. Guess what it was for Glyn???

For being an old fashioned Bobby, for going where others would not, for giving plenty of knuckle out and regularly taking on 4 or 5 at once. It appears that in that era people respected proper Policing. I have never been afraid of going for a pint wherever I worked..  It was called respect. I will wait for your response then close the office for Summer so hurry up, the shutter is nearly down, But only if it is worth posting mind

If it was for something that was nothing to do with what happened at Orgreave, it's not relevant. Is it?

[ravenrover]

Just out of interest how many posting on here were directly involved with the strike or were actually at Orgreave?